Multiverse Team Seasons: Season 1 Beta ends, preparing for the next steps

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by CBJ » Sun, 23. Apr 23, 15:39

We can't answer that without more information. Go to the Tech Support forum, read the sticky thread at the top there, then start a new thread in that forum in which you post all the requested information.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by RedFlashyKitten » Sun, 23. Apr 23, 16:55

Alright since the comments here go the usual internet-esque way Im gonna chime in and say: Thank you Egosoft for bringing back ventures. The feature so far is a lot of fun and brings a new dimension to the game that bottom-line just makes the universe feel more alive. Hope youre gonna expand on that.

And to all those of you talking about micro-tx and "timelocked resources" and whatnot: Dont play it, also lol as if.

And to those complaining that Ego spends company resources on that: Tough luck, guess their surveys showed that youre the minority not wanting ventures.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by jambock » Mon, 24. Apr 23, 02:42

RedFlashyKitten wrote:
Sun, 23. Apr 23, 16:55
And to those complaining that Ego spends company resources on that: Tough luck, guess their surveys showed that youre the minority not wanting ventures.
Only 16% wanted Asynchronous Multiplayer; and that is what we are receiving. far from the majority:

https://steamcommunity.com/games/392160 ... 7015648924

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by mr.WHO » Mon, 24. Apr 23, 08:56

jambock wrote:
Mon, 24. Apr 23, 02:42
Only 16% wanted Asynchronous Multiplayer; and that is what we are receiving. far from the majority:
Additionally 53% use mods - even if some of them will try ventures out of curiosity, they are very poor content wise comparing to modded game.

Customer base is simply not there - ventures are bound for failure.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by GCU Grey Area » Mon, 24. Apr 23, 09:16

jambock wrote:
Mon, 24. Apr 23, 02:42
RedFlashyKitten wrote:
Sun, 23. Apr 23, 16:55
And to those complaining that Ego spends company resources on that: Tough luck, guess their surveys showed that youre the minority not wanting ventures.
Only 16% wanted Asynchronous Multiplayer; and that is what we are receiving. far from the majority:

https://steamcommunity.com/games/392160 ... 7015648924
Suspect that's because it's the only viable option if retaining all the usual features of an X game is desired - build as much as you want, own as many ships as you want, etc. Don't think a normal multi-player game would work if players had that freedom. Game would likely grind to a halt if every sector ended up filled with multiple gigantic stations with 1000s of modules each (fps suffers badly if there's just one nearby), or every player had a fleet of 100s of ships. Reckon that question was mostly to evaluate how popular asynchronous would be relative to other common multi-player options. Doubt those other options were ever practical outcomes, but they still needed to evaluate whether asynchonous would have any attraction to players. Apparently 16% was sufficient for them to press forward with it.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by Ydyp » Mon, 24. Apr 23, 11:46

jambock wrote:
Mon, 24. Apr 23, 02:42
RedFlashyKitten wrote:
Sun, 23. Apr 23, 16:55
And to those complaining that Ego spends company resources on that: Tough luck, guess their surveys showed that youre the minority not wanting ventures.
Only 16% wanted Asynchronous Multiplayer; and that is what we are receiving. far from the majority:

https://steamcommunity.com/games/392160 ... 7015648924
Guess you only take the info that suits your agenda right?
From the same survey: only 16% are against multiplayer, 38% doesn't care and 46% wants multiplayer.
So if you ask me yes you guys complaining that Egosoft is spending resources on a multiplayer mode are the minority as in only 16%.

But yeah you did answer the question if we did get the mp that people wanted and that is only the case for 16% of those that wanted mp. And compared to the earlier versions of Ventures they did also take that in account as you have now teams and can join up with friends to form a team in these seasons.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by LameFox » Mon, 24. Apr 23, 12:03

Wanting multiplayer does not necessarily translate to thinking this particular kind of "multiplayer" is better than none. I voted for online co-op myself in that survey, and there are loads of single player features we don't have yet that I'd rather get than a chat room and some chance-based missions.
***modified***

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by GCU Grey Area » Mon, 24. Apr 23, 14:14

Other way round for me. Was in the 16% who voted against any form of multi-player whatsoever. Have had a profound dislike for every single multi-player game I've ever tried in the past, not that there have been many of them.

Despite that have found myself rather enjoying this multiverse thing, a lot more than I though I would (originally started playing it purely for the sake of beta testing it). Think that may be because, perhaps strangely for a multi-player mode, there's virtually no interaction with other people, which is by far the worst part of multi-player games as far as I'm concerned.

Instead those people are limited to sending ships into my universe with interesting loadouts the AI doesn't generally use, often with much higher level pilots too & I get to shoot them. Some of my favourite dogfights have been with such ship - those high level pilots make a huge difference to how they perform in combat compared to a normal fight with a low-average level pilot (as most AI factions tend to use). All that top tier gear players like to load on their venture ships makes them quite valuable if I can capture them intact &, every now & then, I find one stuffed to the gills with purple ship mods too. Also finding the ventures I send my ships on a quite bit more interesting than those in the original implementation.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by LameFox » Mon, 24. Apr 23, 14:40

Well that makes perfect sense to me because IMO its only strong points are pretty much single player things. Using saved player ship loadouts to add some variety in other people's games, sure, that's not a bad idea and I actually wish they'd focus on it. New in-game missions, sure, why not. Maybe they'll finally overhaul the mission system entirely so we aren't missing a bunch based on plot choices. Those are single player things, though. A shared score board and a chat room just don't appeal to me. Chance based missions that happen in the aether and hardly factor in anything about what you're sending don't appeal to me. When they asked "Would you like to be able to play X4 with friends?" I answered about X4 as it was, not X4 redefined to include a browser game.

So I don't know that I'd think of the majority who wanted multiplayer as an endorsement of this system in particular.
***modified***

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by jambock » Mon, 24. Apr 23, 17:38

Well, whatever; everything indicates that they will do it anyway; I tested it and personally I didn't like it; I'm not here to play lawyer and prosecutor with anyone, everyone believes what they want. To me it's just a waste of resources.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by chew-ie » Mon, 24. Apr 23, 18:59

Here is my feedback about the "Multiverse Team Seasons" (MTS) for the devs:

I don't approve this new direction and I want a strict separation from the MTS and the singleplayer game.

Main offenders:
  • Don't force me to use MTS to get the majority of paintjobs
  • Don't force me to use MTS to get extra-rare ship modification in a fraction of time it takes to get them in the main game
  • Don't force me to use MTS to get 5 star pilotes in a fraction of time it takes to get them in the main game
  • Don't force me to use MTS in order to get unique ships
  • Don't postpone patches and hotfixes during major release updates & DLC releases because of MTS
  • Don't neglected UI problems in singleplayer while building shiny new UI for the MTS (e.g. singleplayer mission UI with 1.5 column layout cutting vital information and / or having a heavily outdated fullscreen version of the mission briefing vs 3 column layout UI for MTS with updated visuals)
The way it is now I'd have to go modified to get most of the things I'm missing out (while still missing things out because of the mere existance of MTS). In the past I patiently waited for e.g. getting more paintjobs in the normal game. But as I see now the number of (awesome) paintjobs goes up while there is no access to them without participating in MTS.

I see potential in the tech (remote-updating extension) for singleplayer content (small story updates to keep the writers busy) but the way it is used now has no value for me. The moment I want play with others I fire up my MMO of choice (GW2, SWTOR), do the chores (daylies) and have fun for a few hours - on a platform dedicated and maintained for exactly that purpose, build upon thousands of man hours.
Egosoft IMHO can't catch up on that without compromising the singleplayer game. Building and maintaining an online community is a constant drain in resources - no matter how small that community is or how async the tech is. The balancing problems and the exploitation of the same has already begun, those are human factors and there is no tech to avoid them. Only investing manpower to try to keep up can.

This is a feedback for the devs only. I don't need anyone telling me how he "feels" about my view. At least not in this thread. Thanks.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by jambock » Mon, 24. Apr 23, 19:31

chew-ie wrote:
Mon, 24. Apr 23, 18:59
Here is my feedback about the "Multiverse Team Seasons" (MTS) for the devs:

I don't approve this new direction and I want a strict separation from the MTS and the singleplayer game.

Main offenders:
  • Don't force me to use MTS to get the majority of paintjobs
  • Don't force me to use MTS to get extra-rare ship modification in a fraction of time it takes to get them in the main game
  • Don't force me to use MTS to get 5 star pilotes in a fraction of time it takes to get them in the main game
  • Don't force me to use MTS in order to get unique ships
  • Don't postpone patches and hotfixes during major release updates & DLC releases because of MTS
  • Don't neglected UI problems in singleplayer while building shiny new UI for the MTS (e.g. singleplayer mission UI with 1.5 column layout cutting vital information and / or having a heavily outdated fullscreen version of the mission briefing vs 3 column layout UI for MTS with updated visuals)
The way it is now I'd have to go modified to get most of the things I'm missing out (while still missing things out because of the mere existance of MTS). In the past I patiently waited for e.g. getting more paintjobs in the normal game. But as I see now the number of (awesome) paintjobs goes up while there is no access to them without participating in MTS.

I see potential in the tech (remote-updating extension) for singleplayer content (small story updates to keep the writers busy) but the way it is used now has no value for me. The moment I want play with others I fire up my MMO of choice (GW2, SWTOR), do the chores (daylies) and have fun for a few hours - on a platform dedicated and maintained for exactly that purpose, build upon thousands of man hours.
Egosoft IMHO can't catch up on that without compromising the singleplayer game. Building and maintaining an online community is a constant drain in resources - no matter how small that community is or how async the tech is. The balancing problems and the exploitation of the same has already begun, those are human factors and there is no tech to avoid them. Only investing manpower to try to keep up can.

This is a feedback for the devs only. I don't need anyone telling me how he "feels" about my view. At least not in this thread. Thanks.
I would add to the list:
- Make the rewards Account available, not only save; so i can use the reward in any save i want; new and old ones.
- Give ships together with their blueprints; play 2 months to get a single ship that can be lost forever doesn't seems interesting.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by Nulric » Mon, 24. Apr 23, 19:42

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Mon, 24. Apr 23, 14:14
Other way round for me. Was in the 16% who voted against any form of multi-player whatsoever. Have had a profound dislike for every single multi-player game I've ever tried in the past, not that there have been many of them.

Despite that have found myself rather enjoying this multiverse thing, a lot more than I though I would (originally started playing it purely for the sake of beta testing it). Think that may be because, perhaps strangely for a multi-player mode, there's virtually no interaction with other people, which is by far the worst part of multi-player games as far as I'm concerned.

...........
I've found myself in basically the same boat. I really wasn't sold on the Ventures idea at all.

To my surprise, I've really enjoyed it. It's felt more like an unusual enhancement to the single player element for me. In particular in running the local game missions where you come into conflict with unusual ship configurations from other players, rather than things we've come to expect from the AI. I didn't think that it would be something I wanted to mess with, let alone find altogether fun, but I have.

I realize you and I may not be in the majority, but I'm glad I gave it a go, and I really have been enjoying myself. Especially enjoy seeing unusual ships coming from the Ventures.

I'm not crazy about the save restrictions or time gated things, but I also can't think of a good alternative method for them to do what they are trying to do. Anyways, I've been having fun with this, for what that's worth to anyone.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by SphinxofBlackQuartz » Mon, 24. Apr 23, 20:06

Nulric wrote:
Mon, 24. Apr 23, 19:42
I've found myself in basically the same boat. I really wasn't sold on the Ventures idea at all.

To my surprise, I've really enjoyed it. It's felt more like an unusual enhancement to the single player element for me. In particular in running the local game missions where you come into conflict with unusual ship configurations from other players, rather than things we've come to expect from the AI. I didn't think that it would be something I wanted to mess with, let alone find altogether fun, but I have.

I realize you and I may not be in the majority, but I'm glad I gave it a go, and I really have been enjoying myself. Especially enjoy seeing unusual ships coming from the Ventures.

I'm not crazy about the save restrictions or time gated things, but I also can't think of a good alternative method for them to do what they are trying to do. Anyways, I've been having fun with this, for what that's worth to anyone.
I was surprised by how much I enjoyed ventures. I didn't think I'd care one way or the other, but it turns out to be a nice little play-reward loop of tossing a ship into the portal every few minutes and seeing what the last one brought back. It probably helps that I have a friend to team with. (Clearly I need more friends who play X4.) I feel there are some small-to-middling issues that could use some tweaking and polish, but hey, that's what a beta is for.
THE HAPPINESS OF SEEING AGAIN THE SLIGHTLY DISGUSTING ALIEN FRIENDS. EXTREME DELIGHTFUL.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by babayZ » Tue, 25. Apr 23, 16:05

Is it a good place to post MTS bugreports?

1. Yesterday I've forced crews to abandon two multiverse ships (sent by other players).
2. Then (mission with diplomats from another universe) enemy ships (sent by some player) were displayed as local ships, not ships from another universe. Not marked as "another universe ships). So, I had to mark them as hostile manually.

3. Yesterday I've sent a ship to mine branch fuel. And today... The mission is gone. There was no mission-complete options. And the ship is now in some "Unknown sector" and it can't return.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by CBJ » Tue, 25. Apr 23, 16:07

babayZ wrote:
Tue, 25. Apr 23, 16:05
Is it a good place to post MTS bugreports?
No, it isn't. As it says in the very first post in this thread, they belong in the
And please post one issue per thread. Throwing unrelated issues together in a single post pretty much guarantees that they won't be seen by the right person or people.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by babayZ » Tue, 25. Apr 23, 18:47

CBJ wrote:
Tue, 25. Apr 23, 16:07
And please post one issue per thread. Throwing unrelated issues together in a single post pretty much guarantees that they won't be seen by the right person or people.
Thank you!

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by RedFlashyKitten » Tue, 25. Apr 23, 21:27

chew-ie wrote:
Mon, 24. Apr 23, 18:59
Here is my feedback about the "Multiverse Team Seasons" (MTS) for the devs:

I don't approve this new direction and I want a strict separation from the MTS and the singleplayer game.

Main offenders:
  • Don't force me to use MTS to get the majority of paintjobs
  • Don't force me to use MTS to get extra-rare ship modification in a fraction of time it takes to get them in the main game
  • Don't force me to use MTS to get 5 star pilotes in a fraction of time it takes to get them in the main game
  • Don't force me to use MTS in order to get unique ships
  • Don't postpone patches and hotfixes during major release updates & DLC releases because of MTS
  • Don't neglected UI problems in singleplayer while building shiny new UI for the MTS (e.g. singleplayer mission UI with 1.5 column layout cutting vital information and / or having a heavily outdated fullscreen version of the mission briefing vs 3 column layout UI for MTS with updated visuals)
The way it is now I'd have to go modified to get most of the things I'm missing out (while still missing things out because of the mere existance of MTS). In the past I patiently waited for e.g. getting more paintjobs in the normal game. But as I see now the number of (awesome) paintjobs goes up while there is no access to them without participating in MTS.

I see potential in the tech (remote-updating extension) for singleplayer content (small story updates to keep the writers busy) but the way it is used now has no value for me. The moment I want play with others I fire up my MMO of choice (GW2, SWTOR), do the chores (daylies) and have fun for a few hours - on a platform dedicated and maintained for exactly that purpose, build upon thousands of man hours.
Egosoft IMHO can't catch up on that without compromising the singleplayer game. Building and maintaining an online community is a constant drain in resources - no matter how small that community is or how async the tech is. The balancing problems and the exploitation of the same has already begun, those are human factors and there is no tech to avoid them. Only investing manpower to try to keep up can.

This is a feedback for the devs only. I don't need anyone telling me how he "feels" about my view. At least not in this thread. Thanks.
I really fail to see your issue. MTS literally runs parallel to singleplayer and sending an S-class ship every now and then really means nothing at all. I get that many people think that freedom to do whatever is a must, but then youll have to accept the fact that youre missing out on exclusive rewards the rest of us gets for participating in something that benefits the community and the game overall.

Its not like you have to invest an hour or more to get those rewards every now and then. The way MTS looks right now all you have to do is click a few buttons once and then send a ship once or twice. Whining about wanting the freedom to "not do that" while at the same time demanding the same rewards seems... uhm... counterintuitive.

Those rewards, after all, are supposed to be an incentive to participate in something the majority wants and wanted, and something that benefits Ego, the community and the singleplayerexperience. I have some more explicit comments on how I view this tantrum thats being thrown by certain people in here, but Im gonna keep those to myself.

And regarding this comment of "Only 16% wanted ventures" - you have already been caught on that blatant misinformation. Multiplayer is where its at - and since yall want Ego to use resources sparcely I guess MTS is a good middleground - online coop requires a whole other dimension of multiplayer server infrastructure compared to - I guess - the webserver with a REST-API that we have right now. Yall really want it both ways and the third way as well.

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by Aranov » Tue, 25. Apr 23, 22:57

I will go right to the point with my two issues and one rebuttal.

1. Resources: Ego is wasting time trying to appeal to a mass of people who quite frankly don't exist (I'll come to that later), meanwhile we have pitiful content, questionable ui, bugs galore and an AI that lacks the I in any capacity.
First, multiplayer games are expensive, in infrastructure, development and even security. To make a return on investment would require a monumental player base, and/or recurring payments. Without violating the core game play and tenets of the X-Series, there is no way Ego will pull in the number to make back the investment. Leaving us single players with a broken mess of a game, if anything at all.
And I know this, as LOOK at what succeeds on the multiplayer market. Fortnite, MOBA's, Shooters, and MMO's. All generally fast paced games, easy drop-in and out for a night games.

2. Gatekeeping content: Now content, that's we my biggest problems lies. If Ego wants to tank themselves, fine, but they expect me to pay for what is quite frankly, a glorified tech-demo?
That could worked thanks to mod-authors, Look at TC, AP and FL. First would have been forgotten, later two wouldn't even exist with out mods. All improved upon X3, which even itself had more content then we get these days.
But now Ego wants to turn around leave mod authors and users in the dust? Last update broke a lot of good mods, and right up till the tools came out I was wondering are they really were going to release them.
And here we are with content being made, for a SINGLEPLAYER game I paid for, that I may never see through no decision of my own. Its already ships, how long till stations, sectors or plots get locked behind the "Venture" wall?
Sure, I could mod in the Yasur for example. But that's assuming in can even get the files for the ship, for all I know Ego will create "exclusive" dlc files that can only be downloaded by participating in Ventures.

Finally, my rebuttal. If multiplayer games are so good, if you want a multiplayer space game so badly, why not play EVE online, Elite, or Star Citizen or No Man's Sky etc.
Seriously Why not those games? What is here, that warrant's destroying the last and only bastion of singleplayer open-world space-sim, so you can play with your "Buddies" here, rather then there?
So why I am being told, my way of having fun, that harms no one, is invalid, is wrong? Why, do I need to fear for the future well being of one of my favorite games and the economic success of the devs?

May have ranted a bit, but needed to get things off my chest. I feel the rebuttal is most important, and I suppose this post is mostly directed at those who vehemently support multiplayer calling those of us who question and oppose where this could lead, as "having a tantrum".

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Re: Multiverse Team Seasons: Public Beta now available

Post by RedFlashyKitten » Wed, 26. Apr 23, 00:04

Aranov wrote:
Tue, 25. Apr 23, 22:57
I will go right to the point with my two issues and one rebuttal.

1. Resources: Ego is wasting time trying to appeal to a mass of people who quite frankly don't exist (I'll come to that later), meanwhile we have pitiful content, questionable ui, bugs galore and an AI that lacks the I in any capacity.
First, multiplayer games are expensive, in infrastructure, development and even security. To make a return on investment would require a monumental player base, and/or recurring payments. Without violating the core game play and tenets of the X-Series, there is no way Ego will pull in the number to make back the investment. Leaving us single players with a broken mess of a game, if anything at all.
And I know this, as LOOK at what succeeds on the multiplayer market. Fortnite, MOBA's, Shooters, and MMO's. All generally fast paced games, easy drop-in and out for a night games.

2. Gatekeeping content: Now content, that's we my biggest problems lies. If Ego wants to tank themselves, fine, but they expect me to pay for what is quite frankly, a glorified tech-demo?
That could worked thanks to mod-authors, Look at TC, AP and FL. First would have been forgotten, later two wouldn't even exist with out mods. All improved upon X3, which even itself had more content then we get these days.
But now Ego wants to turn around leave mod authors and users in the dust? Last update broke a lot of good mods, and right up till the tools came out I was wondering are they really were going to release them.
And here we are with content being made, for a SINGLEPLAYER game I paid for, that I may never see through no decision of my own. Its already ships, how long till stations, sectors or plots get locked behind the "Venture" wall?
Sure, I could mod in the Yasur for example. But that's assuming in can even get the files for the ship, for all I know Ego will create "exclusive" dlc files that can only be downloaded by participating in Ventures.

Finally, my rebuttal. If multiplayer games are so good, if you want a multiplayer space game so badly, why not play EVE online, Elite, or Star Citizen or No Man's Sky etc.
Seriously Why not those games? What is here, that warrant's destroying the last and only bastion of singleplayer open-world space-sim, so you can play with your "Buddies" here, rather then there?
So why I am being told, my way of having fun, that harms no one, is invalid, is wrong? Why, do I need to fear for the future well being of one of my favorite games and the economic success of the devs?

May have ranted a bit, but needed to get things off my chest. I feel the rebuttal is most important, and I suppose this post is mostly directed at those who vehemently support multiplayer calling those of us who question and oppose where this could lead, as "having a tantrum".
I mean you couldve also responded directly to me, but whatever.

Youre making a drama out of nothing really. This isnt multiplayer as in Eve, it carries no real-time component and as such is one hell of a lot cheaper than what youre thinking of. This is basically an ogame-esque backend with one hell of a lot less going on in terms of features. Furthermore youre completely ignoring that the basis for it already existed, as ventures were a part of X4 initially. So quite some parts of the netcode already existed, I would assume.

If you have an alternative proposal as to how to incite people to play ventures, go right ahead. Otherwise its as Ive laid it out - and I know youve read that, so I dont need to repeat myself. Go press a button, thats how tall the wall is.

Your initial point really just shows that you havent tried the new MTS. So really thats where Im gonna withdraw from this discussion as Ive said more than enough and I dont think a discussion of substance is to be had here.

Have a good night.

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