[Request] Autominers: Separate mining / trading in sector activity blacklist

[user1679]

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Update 2022-03-25: Clarification

It seems that my trade rule wasn't actually saving which is why it wasn't available in the dropdown, not because it can't be applied to miners. I think I might have a corrupt save or even a failing disk. Recently I've had problems with changes to game settings not saving too and disk management indicates drive errors.



Request

When creating a blacklist for sector activities, separate the activities for more granular control.

Details


Sometimes I need my miner to mine in Teladi space because the ore is depleted in Argon space but I don't want her to sell the ore to Teladi stations.
With the current blacklist feature, I can only block "travel" or "activities". If you select "activities", this includes both mining and selling and you can't
apply a trade blacklist to a mining ship.

My request is an "applies to" set of options on the "sector activities" blacklist screen that allows the player to select one or both options, similar to the
ability to select civilian or military ships for travel blacklists:

Sector Activities
Applies to

[ ] Mining
[ ] Trading

[-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-]

You can already achieve this control through individual ship or facility instructions.

The blacklist applied to the structure automatically extends to all subordinate ships. In turn, subordinate ships may have their own individual instructions to bypass the station's master instruction.

For example, you can assign a station sector activity over the Argon area so that all of its subordinates work there.
In turn you will be able to apply a different blacklist to some ships by specifying another completely different zone, and so on....

Furthermore you can define even more specific blacklists by telling a single ship of the entire subordinate fleet to go to work in 5 specific sectors and at the same time deal only with a certain faction within the sectors.
(for example activity in sector on second contact but only with ANT and not with HOP).

[jlehtone]

You can already achieve this control through ...

I too was initially baffled by the OP request. Then I realized that it must be for independent auto-miner.

It does take a bit more initial investment to set up two ships (one to mine and one to trade) and a two module station (dock and storage). With those you do have control over the two activities.

Sometimes I need my miner to mine in Teladi space because the ore is depleted in Argon space but I don't want her to sell the ore to Teladi stations.

Two points in that:

• If miner is allowed to mine in two sectors (rich and depleted), then the miner does somehow select where it does mine. Yes, you could limit the activity to only the rich sectors, but what if some of them are so heavily mined that they (temporarily) deplete? Will you update the blacklist frequently?
• There are three blacklist types for ships: trade, activities, and trade. The first two select sectors. The trade blacklist selects factions. You can have an activity list that makes the ship to mine and trade in Second Contact, but you can also have trade list that limits trade to Yaki stations. The ship would mine in Second Contact and then it would look for a trade partner that is in Second Contact AND is Yaki

A ship with:
- Activity: ARG and TEL sectors
- Trade: ARG

Will definitely trade only with ARG (not, for example, with TEL).
Where will it mine? In the poor sectors, or in the rich sectors?

With the current blacklist feature, I can only block "travel" or "activities". If you select "activities", this includes both mining and selling and you can't apply a trade blacklist to a mining ship.

I had to re-check in game. Told a L Miner to "Local Automine" and it did still have the option to set "Trade restrictions" blacklist.

[-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-]

Two points in that:

• If miner is allowed to mine in two sectors (rich and depleted), then the miner does somehow select where it does mine. Yes, you could limit the activity to only the rich sectors, but what if some of them are so heavily mined that they (temporarily) deplete? Will you update the blacklist frequently?
• There are three blacklist types for ships: trade, activities, and trade. The first two select sectors. The trade blacklist selects factions. You can have an activity list that makes the ship to mine and trade in Second Contact, but you can also have trade list that limits trade to Yaki stations. The ship would mine in Second Contact and then it would look for a trade partner that is in Second Contact AND is Yaki

A ship with:
- Activity: ARG and TEL sectors
- Trade: ARG

Will definitely trade only with ARG (not, for example, with TEL).
Where will it mine? In the poor sectors, or in the rich sectors?

I meant this, but I deliberately avoided spoiling how to do it

The three combinations of individual instructions (travel, activity, trade) allow you to create almost any kind of granular behavior, but many are unaware of the trade blacklist and trade rule option, which are two separate things

[jlehtone]

I meant this, but I deliberately avoided spoiling how to do it

My bad.

many are unaware of the trade blacklist and trade rule option

I was one of them until very recently. I do learn too much by these forum visits.

[-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-]

Don't worry, I have numerous friends who have discovered this possibility after thousands of hours of play.
But the beauty of X4 is just this and it is right to keep these options hidden for the pure pleasure of discovering them with a consequent wow effect

Hope the OP fixes his micromanagement issues

[user1679]

You can already achieve this control through individual ship or facility instructions.

The blacklist applied to the structure automatically extends to all subordinate ships. In turn, subordinate ships may have their own individual instructions to bypass the station's master instruction.

For example, you can assign a station sector activity over the Argon area so that all of its subordinates work there.
In turn you will be able to apply a different blacklist to some ships by specifying another completely different zone, and so on....

Furthermore you can define even more specific blacklists by telling a single ship of the entire subordinate fleet to go to work in 5 specific sectors and at the same time deal only with a certain faction within the sectors.
(for example activity in sector on second contact but only with ANT and not with HOP).

Thanks, I clarified my initial post.

[user1679]

You can already achieve this control through ...

I too was initially baffled by the OP request. Then I realized that it must be for independent auto-miner.

It does take a bit more initial investment to set up two ships (one to mine and one to trade) and a two module station (dock and storage). With those you do have control over the two activities.

Sometimes I need my miner to mine in Teladi space because the ore is depleted in Argon space but I don't want her to sell the ore to Teladi stations.

Two points in that:

• If miner is allowed to mine in two sectors (rich and depleted), then the miner does somehow select where it does mine. Yes, you could limit the activity to only the rich sectors, but what if some of them are so heavily mined that they (temporarily) deplete? Will you update the blacklist frequently?
• There are three blacklist types for ships: trade, activities, and trade. The first two select sectors. The trade blacklist selects factions. You can have an activity list that makes the ship to mine and trade in Second Contact, but you can also have trade list that limits trade to Yaki stations. The ship would mine in Second Contact and then it would look for a trade partner that is in Second Contact AND is Yaki

A ship with:
- Activity: ARG and TEL sectors
- Trade: ARG

Will definitely trade only with ARG (not, for example, with TEL).
Where will it mine? In the poor sectors, or in the rich sectors?

With the current blacklist feature, I can only block "travel" or "activities". If you select "activities", this includes both mining and selling and you can't apply a trade blacklist to a mining ship.

I had to re-check in game. Told a L Miner to "Local Automine" and it did still have the option to set "Trade restrictions" blacklist.

This was my fault, I wasn't specific and have updated my OP. I was talking about "Advanced automine" on single ships.

Also, you cannot assign a trade blacklist to these ships. I tried but the blacklist does not show up in the dropdown to select it on the ships default orders screen.

Edit: I updated my OP.

[user1679]

Two points in that:

• If miner is allowed to mine in two sectors (rich and depleted), then the miner does somehow select where it does mine. Yes, you could limit the activity to only the rich sectors, but what if some of them are so heavily mined that they (temporarily) deplete? Will you update the blacklist frequently?
• There are three blacklist types for ships: trade, activities, and trade. The first two select sectors. The trade blacklist selects factions. You can have an activity list that makes the ship to mine and trade in Second Contact, but you can also have trade list that limits trade to Yaki stations. The ship would mine in Second Contact and then it would look for a trade partner that is in Second Contact AND is Yaki

A ship with:
- Activity: ARG and TEL sectors
- Trade: ARG

Will definitely trade only with ARG (not, for example, with TEL).
Where will it mine? In the poor sectors, or in the rich sectors?

I meant this, but I deliberately avoided spoiling how to do it

The three combinations of individual instructions (travel, activity, trade) allow you to create almost any kind of granular behavior, but many are unaware of the trade blacklist and trade rule option, which are two separate things

Trade blacklist cannot be assigned to a miner. I created a "ban" trade list for Teladi and then went to my miner's individual orders, unchecked the "use global" for trade and the blacklist does not appear in the dropdown.

Edit: I updated my OP

[user1679]

Clarifying for future posters


In case anyone didn't see my update in the OP, it seems that my trade rule wasn't actually saving which is why it wasn't available in the dropdown. I think I might have a corrupt save or even a failing disk. Recently I've had
problems with changes to game settings not saving too and disk management indicates drive errors.

[GCU Grey Area]

it seems that my trade rule wasn't actually saving which is why it wasn't available in the dropdown.

If it's specifically a trade rule that you made it won't appear in the dropdown list for ships. That's not where they're used. Trade rules are for stations, trade blacklists are for ships. They're similar concepts, but have different applications. You'll need to make a trade blacklist if you want to indicate to your auto-miner which factions it's permitted to trade with.

[user1679]

it seems that my trade rule wasn't actually saving which is why it wasn't available in the dropdown.

If it's specifically a trade rule that you made it won't appear in the dropdown list for ships. That's not where they're used. Trade rules are for stations, trade blacklists are for ships. They're similar concepts, but have different applications. You'll need to make a trade blacklist if you want to indicate to your auto-miner which factions it's permitted to trade with.

Thanks, it was actually a blacklist. I was using the term "rule" interchangeably. I selected an activity list, chose "trade" and banned Teladi. Almost immediately, my game crashed with a shader compiler error and when I loaded the
game, the activity blacklist was still showing on the global orders but it was not listed in the ship's orders. So I thought it was simply not allowed to apply to that ship type until I realized my game settings also were not saving properly.