Why we are frustrated with X4

[Omni-Orb]

Its simply that the game is so awesome, unique and good that we want more of it in all forms.
It might look like frustration on the forum, however behind it is an immense amount of good that the X games gives us.
The frustration mostly comes from not getting enough of it/that we want more of it.

[Smart_Bomb]

Personally I think the game is top shelf, I only wish it had more depth, ships, variety of missions, and the ability to feel like you are apart of the game more.

[subidax]

Its simply that the game is so awesome, unique and good that we want more of it in all forms.
It might look like frustration on the forum, however behind it is an immense amount of good that the X games gives us.
The frustration mostly comes from not getting enough of it/that we want more of it.

I thought I replied to this initially but I guess it got lost in the ether.

I quite enjoy the game. I saw a call to "try it again" (even though I never tried it the first time) on youtube that talked about all the work and bug fixes that has occurred since launch.

I quite often put games down and pick them up again years later to see where the updates have taken them so thats not so unusual for me.

I also empathize with the spirit of your comment, the closer to "perfection" in people's perception the more frustrating the little nits can be.

[vrod]

I have a few hundred hours invested into 2 save games.

My latest and biggest gripe:

Khaak ships seem to (too) frequently pop out of no where and destroy or harass my mining ships.

I have to sit in sector and babysit the whole sector! I have a few corvettes "patrolling" the sector, but they don't seem to respond often, even if a group of Khaak spawns nearby.

It gets to the point where I have to make (very often) save points, if I want to travel OOS. Really frustrating.

[BrummBear02]

I have a few hundred hours invested into 2 save games.

My latest and biggest gripe:

Khaak ships seem to (too) frequently pop out of no where and destroy or harass my mining ships.

I have to sit in sector and babysit the whole sector! I have a few corvettes "patrolling" the sector, but they don't seem to respond often, even if a group of Khaak spawns nearby.

It gets to the point where I have to make (very often) save points, if I want to travel OOS. Really frustrating.

thats the main reason you switch to L miners for mining purposes and repurpose your M miners to transport minerals from the mining outpost to the factory, if there is a superhighway connection. or let them mine in relatively safe sectors like terran space or argon prime.

L miners are pretty much immune to khaak harrassment and if u dont mount plasma turrets they are decent at killing them. also you can prevent more khaar spawning by searching for the khaak hive, which is located somewhere around the edge of the sector or sometimes even farther outside. but dont try to deal with that without sufficient force. a Syn can handle it just fine. at least if piloted by the player. never tried to let AI do that.

[Submarine]

TBH I think the game has a pretty rough finish and is tiring and difficult to play because of a lot of quality of life issues. I am more sensitive than average to that kind of thing because I have a CFS illness called ME due to immune dysfunction. So I notice when I am being asked to use energy wastefully as I dont have much and have to use it very carefully and am always trying to find better ways of doing things which are less wasteful of effort. Computers are very helpful in that regard, if you programme them right.

The X4 interface is IMHO very rough and laborious to use and demands unecessary micro. e.g. That is like the lack of boost default setting for ship behaviour, the times you go to blank screens for no reason and have to try again to go back to a meaningful screen, the inability to change order priorities easily and the fiddling about often needed to take the pilots seat, which coupled with teleportation generates play which is not at all ergonomic. As a general issue, X4 sets up play dynamics which the interface cannot handle efficiently. It is not honed by play testing.

But its not just that, there are also flaws in the game, I mean the ToA plot for example has significant problems with plot triggers and trying to work through them is like walking on eggshells, same with missions. The design of crystal spawning is still not credible or conducive. These are the tip of the iceberg of things that go wrong in X4.

I think what happens with most players is they either quit due to aggravation and hope it will get better later, or they try to play on to pursue an objective in the game and train themselves to work around the aggravation and look past the poor polish in order to carry on. They learn the micro and deliberately avoid getting annoyed, creating blindspots for all the things which need fixing and doing their best to forget them.

I think that is where the frustration really comes from, suppressed aggravation at the game itself obstructing the goals it creates.

So imho its rough and annoyance is X4s karma because it is not being playtested properly and play based feedback about ergonomics, userfriendliness etc are not given the priority they deserve.

[KextV8]

My biggest gripe is the inability of the AI to avoid total collapse of their economies without player intervention. It makes the notion that these AI factions managed to expand into multi-solar entities completely unbelievable and diminishes them. I can't respect them at all. The only major faction that can hold itself together are the Terrans.

[abisha1980]

I think if devs add more depth to the game more people would play

biggest competition.
No man sky (also the hardest to win) consider the free DLCs.

i think they can gain large market share if they fix the graphics and runs smooth like baby skin.
because No man sky runs also so smooth, they can likely achieve this by making out of sector better (and remove teleport ability's and camera's) outside player perspective.
but then they also need to make player control on remove objects a lot better then (real office etc)

[grapedog]

My biggest gripe is the inability of the AI to avoid total collapse of their economies without player intervention. It makes the notion that these AI factions managed to expand into multi-solar entities completely unbelievable and diminishes them. I can't respect them at all. The only major faction that can hold itself together are the Terrans.

Well the Terrans hold it together because they have only 3 wares plus ECells for everything, so a super simple economy... they also have zero enemies, and zero pressure, and they have some of the most powerful ships in the game. And kha'ak can't even spawn a large installation in their territories... the closest kha'ak can get really is putting a small hive in like asteroid belt... but then TER has a massive amount of easy to produce ships that heavily patrol that particular sector as they try and push into Getsu Fune. And do pirates even go to the TER sectors? Are the traders harassed at all inside TER/PIO space? Seriously, a camel fart could run that faction and be successful.

The commonwealth factions need a variety of wares, and depending on the random roll of the dice when the game starts up... if they get a hull parts or claytronics factory taken out relatively early by Xenon, they're in a tough spot.

Historically, HoP do pretty well in most games as do TEL, cleaning out the Xenon and holding their borders if not actually expanding. And PAR, ANT and FRF usually do fine as well, though they may never expand, they typically hold well. It's ARG and ZYA that have the most difficult times because of location, Xenon, and wars.

[af_2017]

I have 2k hours in the game.

- I have completed hardest terraforming
- I played creative game supporting XEN to see how far they can progress
- I played creative game supporting HOP to see how far they can progress
- I have completed all story lines (except ToA)
- certainly I learned how to defeat XEN and vanished them couple of times
- I am not a teladi so I do not find economy thingies of getting profits interesting

So I guess I can make some conclusions.

I spent that time:
1. learning how to play this game; that includes features, game mechanics etc
2. playing in attempt to get fun

And I can say that I've failed to get fun.
Also I can say that the game has set of flaws in design decisions. After long communication on the forum I can say that there's no will from egosoft to improve the solutions.
Thus I find that the game's trailers look/sound good but yet the game itself is somewhat different. I find it's quality level is rather low.

Thanks egosoft for this game but I'm done with it. That's not my game.

[surferx]

I have 2k hours in the game.

- I have completed hardest terraforming
- I played creative game supporting XEN to see how far they can progress
- I played creative game supporting HOP to see how far they can progress
- I have completed all story lines (except ToA)
- certainly I learned how to defeat XEN and vanished them couple of times
- I am not a teladi so I do not find economy thingies of getting profits interesting

So I guess I can make some conclusions.

I spent that time:
1. learning how to play this game; that includes features, game mechanics etc
2. playing in attempt to get fun

And I can say that I've failed to get fun.
Also I can say that the game has set of flaws in design decisions. After long communication on the forum I can say that there's no will from egosoft to improve the solutions.
Thus I find that the game's trailers look/sound good but yet the game itself is somewhat different. I find it's quality level is rather low.

Thanks egosoft for this game but I'm done with it. That's not my game.

8K in X4. You claim to have spent 2K hours on something that wasn't fun.

[Katorone]

biggest competition.
No man sky (also the hardest to win) consider the free DLCs.

NMS has space combat, so does X4. That's about where the comparison ends. NMS limits what you build, how much and where. You can't build in space, for instance. NMS also doesn't simulate its entire simulated galaxy (how could it?).
Don't get me wrong, I like NMS. I like X4 too. They're two games that do what they do well.

[KextV8]

The commonwealth factions need a variety of wares, and depending on the random roll of the dice when the game starts up... if they get a hull parts or claytronics factory taken out relatively early by Xenon, they're in a tough spot.

Historically, HoP do pretty well in most games as do TEL, cleaning out the Xenon and holding their borders if not actually expanding. And PAR, ANT and FRF usually do fine as well, though they may never expand, they typically hold well. It's ARG and ZYA that have the most difficult times because of location, Xenon, and wars.

It's not about holding their territory together, though that is one small piece. I have not experienced a play through yet in which I was able to reliably purchase the ships I wanted from factions. They simply cannot perform basic logistics to keep their shipyards, and other production facilities running. I always end up having to build my own factories myself to build the ships I want. It's just sad.

[Sturmer]

My biggest gripe is standardization compared to X3. For example missiles, you don't have such a variety of them anymore and you need turrets or launchers, that makes them less attractive. I liked all the different names and purposes, mosquito, etc.

I miss shooting my marines in boarding missiles among swarm missiles to cover them. Current boarding pods are basically the same as EV suit boarding in X3. Slow and clumsy and graceless.

Torpedoes are just a useless gimmick now that doesn't really do much, compared to X3 where they were quite powerful. Bombers are a thing of the past.

No more drone-actual-CARRIERS. M7M ships were love, M7M were life. Especially with the mod where the ship could produce endless swarms of drones, that was fun. No smaller escort carriers. No ARgon capitals that aren't trident-like.

I miss old classifications, M8-M0.

I miss old STYLES. The creepy Xenon instead of these weird bug things. Yah, the front light looks slightly creepy, but not compared to old spiky styles that were like Xenomorph from Alien. At least the M and N stayed the same. Same for Teladi, just not a fan of the mushrooms. That styles would change so dramatically in just 20 years breaks any suspense of disbelief I can make. I like the Terran styles, but they're the evil tyrant empire who wants to play world cop/bully and break the arm of everyone that doesn't want to bend over and spread the cheeks to be sexually assaulted. The Argon are okay, utilitarian and that's it. Paranid GORGEOUS ship bridges (best looking bridges of all factions) and small ships, but I hate the keels on the big ones.

Really bad AI. REALLY bad.

That it took them 5 years to actually make build ships race-specific and different.

[grapedog]

It's not about holding their territory together, though that is one small piece. I have not experienced a play through yet in which I was able to reliably purchase the ships I wanted from factions. They simply cannot perform basic logistics to keep their shipyards, and other production facilities running. I always end up having to build my own factories myself to build the ships I want. It's just sad.

If the NPCs could fully supply all their shipbuilding needs, there would be zero need for a player. it is designed to have holes for the player to fill. the NPCs get around to filling them eventually, but it takes them a while so that leaves the player time to get involved.

[KextV8]

it is designed to have holes for the player to fill. the NPCs get around to filling them eventually, but it takes them a while so that leaves the player time to get involved.

I'm aware of what is going on. But this setup is a strict playability downgrade from X3:TC/AP. There was plenty of room for player industrial involvement without handicapping ability to purchase ships.

The issue isn't show stopping, but it is enough of a hindrance that it harms replayability for me. Having to go through and build up everyone's industry for them, because otherwise it will take the AI actual days to deliver the materials needed for a purchase, every time I want to replay the game is very off-putting.

They should just let the economy cheat again. Saves some cpu cycles and produces a better end result. Sometimes how something gets done isn't as important as making sure it actually is getting done.

[TheDeliveryMan]

They should just let the economy cheat again. Saves some cpu cycles and produces a better end result. Sometimes how something gets done isn't as important as making sure it actually is getting done.

One of the key selling points of X4 is that the player can make a difference:

- buy ships from ARG/ANT/PAR => they have less resources to replace their military, trade and mining ships
- supply HOP with meds and food => HOP production efficiency increases
- buy construction and ship building materials from enemies of HOP and sell to HOP => double benefit for HOP
- fight Xenon at HOP border, do not fight Xenon at ANT/ARG borders => another double benefit for HOP

None of the above are possible if the ship building materials are cheated in.

[mr.WHO]

If we are having a frustration wenting session here, then here is my frustration list as of 6.0:

- Copy paste stats on medium turrets
- Xenons and Khaak not having a full set of ships (bored with shooting at the same ships since X-Rebirth).
- no reverse engineering and ship deconstruction in player shipyard (no, ToA scrapping mechanics is not it).
- Shiyard GUI is awful when working with big ships (e.g Raptor, Tokyo) that have small turret - no way to clearly see which component/turret you select.
- No way to mass swap pilot trained in HQ - you trained 100 pilots in HQ, nice - now swap 100 one by one
- Lack of actual combat generic missions.
- Venture drama and paint mods locked behind it.

[KextV8]

None of the above are possible if the ship building materials are cheated in.

None of the above make for good and engaging gameplay, because the player doesn't have to do it, the NPCs do it to themselves all on their own. Factions start off okay on new game starts. After about a week of playing, they start having production shortages and the game stagnates unless you go in and fix the problems.

It makes the Governments look completely inept and ruins the sense of immersion into advanced space civilizations.

It's cool one playthrough to be space industrial tycoon. But it's very boring when that's the forced gameplay route every time.

[alt3rn1ty]

Missiles are my biggest gripe. Loved them in X3AP, but completely avoid using them in X4. In X3AP they had a good range of uses and worked well, even just the visual wow of how they launched and homed in on targets made me a happy boy ( easily pleased ), and being able to assign a monitor which tracked the missile view as it flew.
The whole logistics of trying to maintain a stock of them is the problem that puts me off.
Plus having to allocate a turret to just Missile defence. I would much prefer that turrets target missiles as a priority when they get within turret range, then switch back to defending against nearest enemy.

Mines are something else I dont use at all (well, that is outside of Missions which require us to go place a few seemingly useless mines which everyone can easily avoid). To make an effective unavoidable 3 dimensionally placed mine field for any particular purpose would require a level of patience I just dont have (like on the scale of minefields we see in one of the Faulty logic sectors).
There have been a couple of missions where we had to be careful of mine fields, those were good, but use of them personally is too much of a PITA.

The biggest enjoyment I get from the game is being in a Moreya or Kuraokami and dogfighting in a big battle, mostly thats very good, but beyond a certain number of ships being involved the FPS starts to suffer and ruins the immersion. I really could do with a desktop computer, but will probably never have one due to lack of space in the house, much prefer having my laptop on a laptop stand in front of my reclining armchair ( which has massage modes and feels like the engine of the ship rumbling underneath me ). Anyway, I know all the reasons why this game is bad at giving us a good stable FPS in some circumstances, but still wish it was better.

Overall though, I love the game, Egosoft have done themselves proud with the technical achievement and giving us the ability to walk out of a ship, around stations, call in another ship to walk onto and set off on the next objective. Just watching large ships landing is awesome, and the new station builder UI is fantastic. Looking forward to much more refining and polishing of the game, and especially looking forward to the Boron DLC.