The future of the 'teleportation' feature, X5 and beyond.

[Axeface]

The teleportation feature in X4 is great. We no longer have jumpdrives (also great) so we needed a convenient way to get around, because who (apart from me) like what many would call 'tedium'.
But theres one problem as far as I see it. The feature itself raises a pretty serious issue in terms of lore and world building. It is a good mechanic for gameplay yet problematic for lore. Why does the player have this, and the player alone? Why dont our employees go on strike (to put it mildly) when they see a live stream of the player getting 'wooshed' off an exploding ship, while their best friend Bob and his 200 crewmates get vaporised?
And if that changes and everyone had access to this tech it would become, imo, just odd. So I'de like to come up with an alternative that allows us to control any of our ships when we want and keep the return of the dreaded jumpdrive at bay, and at the same time improve and add depth to the lore and gameplay. If the current teleportation is used in future games too it also forces egosoft to make a plot that explains why the player has this tech and others dont, I feel like this is quite limiting and feels arbitrary.


So...
Quantum entanglement is a big buzzword in science right now - and while it cant actually be used for what im about to suggest as far as scientists are concerned (for now?), perhaps we can suspend our disbelief here and use it much like other sci-fi franchises do (like Mass Effect).

I propose for future X games making up some fairly plausible system in the lore that allows the player to use augmented reality to control remote ships in realtime - aesthetically this could be much like rebirths drone control, where a headset lowers down and we take control of the target ship (or anything mechanical, actually), or it could be something much more subtle than a headset, like a implant that the player has. When we take control of a remote ship the current pilot need only release control.
The player would control the asset, but not be there physically.

Now, theres already scope within the lore for this - we can already transmit orders to any of our ships immediately and can talk to crew anywhere immediately, it is only a tiny step to allow us to control their ship if that is already in place. We can already see what is happening, realtime, in almost any sector in the known galaxy if there is a 'satellite' nearby or a friendly asset with sensors. So I propose implanting this idea even more into the world-building. It should be a core idea and incredibly important. Special relays for this technology that can be effected/hacked/destroyed could be added to sectors, factions should control the technology and charge for the use of it (and therefore be able to remove players access to it on demand depending on the situation), some sectors might not have any relays and therefore would be much more dangerous because to see them you would have to be there physically, increasing the feeling of exploration and danger, until you build your own relay at least, as a very end-game target... and many other things.

So, put simply - New lore to explain why we have some features we already have. Instant communication and therefore control of our assets, without being physically present.

Thoughts?

[dtpsprt]

Given the "mechanics" in the game itself, the need for constant monitoring of all assets player's and NPC alike in particular, I would remove teleportation, the highway system and travel drive re-engagimg jump drive while at the same time limiting the ships to 10% of what they are both for NPC and player.

This would free up a considerable amount of CPU usage allowing for more sectors and factions to exist, therefore exploration and danger as you and I both want. Of course this would mean smaller sectors, like in X3 but the number could easily triple giving more variety. Also, despite such an "expansion" in Universe size and subsequently plots, it would mean drastically cutting down on the save and load times...

[Falcrack]

If teleportation was actually a thing like it was in X4, there would never be any need for space ships. Just teleport cargo and people here and there and everywhere. Can only teleport a small amount of mass (like a person sized object) at a time? No problem, you just teleport small amounts multiple times to make the entire delivery. It's enormously expensive to teleport? Well I haven't seen any costs for it in game.

[Maebius]

My thought is that there is very little lore ingame as it is. So thinking up of something plausible for the teleportation is minor.

But that's my main beef with it tbh. I would like to have far more plots, ingame articles, news etc etc than those we have now.

[Flippi]

Egosoft never gave any lore explanation on why the jump drive is gone, as far as I know. From a gameplay perspective, sure, there were reasons, even if I disagree very much with most of them. JD's never were that problematic as some made it out to be in my opinion. Especially since there were and still are ways to refine them to make them more "balanced".

But since the JD played such a crucial role in X lore, the entire universe felt a lot more like a joke to me after they have gone missing. It's also not the first time, Egosoft has done weird or questionable choices concerning the setting. But the JD is certainly one of the most prominent and obvious ones. And since that day, I honestly couldn't care less about the lore any more.

Teleportation, as it stands now, is simply a continuation of the Jump drive, just with some minor differences and a different name. It isn't completely the same thing, sure. But it's close enough from a gameplay perspective. And there is basically no way to make the entire thing work in terms of lore, as it is such a weird technology in the first place without any actual restrictions (unlike the JD for example). But then again, terraforming also doesn't make sense in setting, as only the Xenon / Terraformers were able to do that in reasonable time. Yet here we are.

But that's my main beef with it tbh. I would like to have far more plots, ingame articles, news etc etc than those we have now.

X3TC had loads of plots, and it annoyed me to no end. I personally am rather happy that there aren't too many plots to deal with and that we can 'finish' most of them by choosing a custom gamestart. However, ingame articles, news and such are different. I would also appreciate a return of the BBS and it's news articles.

However, in my honest opinion, Egosoft should have stuck with Plan A and actually end the X-Universe and start a new setting. As it was planned all those years ago. That way we wouldn't have to deal with all the questionable lore choices that were done througout the years. No JD? Doesn't matter, it's a new setting. Powerful teleportation? Again, doesn't matter, it's a new setting where technology is different than in X. No Boron or Xenon? Also doesn't matter, as we would have gotten new factions and races.

We even could have gotten a different way to travel to other star systems. So instead of gates, we could have been using Andromeda Style slipstream drives based on the current highway system. But alas, Egosoft decided to continue the X Universe, but this time without the Jump drive, some OP teleportation device that would make interstellar travel nearly redundant, weird looking Xenon and probably loads of other things.

Tl;dr:
I stopped caring about the lore. Egosoft has done more than enough for me to stop caring. It doesn't matter that teleportation is powerful and doesn't make sense, as the setting itself has lost so much since it's 'Rebirth'. So for me personally, Egosoft can continue to not develop the lore any deeper than a puddle, as I use the game only for the sandbox elements and gameplay options. The game in terms of gameplay might have improved a lot compared to older titles. But the setting as it stands now, is a farce compared to what came before. And the old setting had a lot of flaws already.

[jlehtone]

Thoughts?

I don't use teleportation.

Crews of my ships seem to switch ship very quickly ... almost like they would "teleport".

[Imperial Good]

Why does the player have this, and the player alone?

Because the player ended up in full control over a Terran research station that was researching teleportation like technology, along with one of the smartest scientists currently alive in the universe. The technology was likely optimised specifically to teleport the player, likely with very expensive hardware the player's character is having to carry around, what the player paid for when researching the technology.

The only part of the technology that does not make sense is that it is free for the player to use personally. Teleporting their headquarters costs an arm and a leg with a research time based cooldown, but the player can teleport at no cost to anywhere in the universe as much as they want after researching the technology.

Personally in future I would like to see a cost associated with teleportation, both cooldown and material related. The further and more frequently a player teleports, the higher the cost. Teleportation within sector might cost only a few energy cells and take a few seconds to cooldown but cross universe jumps may require superfluid coolant, advanced electronics and other expensive items, have a cooldown of a minute and then have additional resource penalties if the player teleports again within the next 15 minutes, an extended soft cooldown. These resources would be deducted from the HQ's station storage automatically. The feature could be used to "emergency" rescue or quickly move the player's employees as well, but with even higher cost and maybe a chance for failure. For the player there would be an "emergency" teleport they could perform if their HQ lacks the resources but with a very long, 1h, cooldown that also damages the HQ slightly.

[flywlyx]

Jump drive should be added as an option like the highway ring. It could be limited to only jumping from gate to gate, but will still significantly enhance the importance of the L/XL ships and make the universe more dynamic.

[dtpsprt]

Why does the player have this, and the player alone?

Because the player ended up in full control over a Terran research station that was researching teleportation like technology, along with one of the smartest scientists currently alive in the universe. The technology was likely optimised specifically to teleport the player, likely with very expensive hardware the player's character is having to carry around, what the player paid for when researching the technology.

The only part of the technology that does not make sense is that it is free for the player to use personally. Teleporting their headquarters costs an arm and a leg with a research time based cooldown, but the player can teleport at not cost to anywhere in the universe as much as they want after researching the technology.

Personally in future I would like to see a cost associated with teleportation, both cooldown and material related. The further and more frequently a player teleports, the higher the cost. Teleportation within sector might cost only a few energy cells and take a few seconds to cooldown but cross universe jumps may require superfluid coolant, advanced electronics and other expensive items, have a cooldown of a minute and then have additional resource penalties if the player teleports again within the next 15 minutes, an extended soft cooldown. These resources would be deducted from the HQ's station storage automatically. The feature could be used to "emergency" rescue or quickly move the player's employees as well, but with even higher cost and maybe a chance for failure. For the player there would be an "emergency" teleport they could perform if their HQ lacks the resources but with a very long, 1h, cooldown that also damages the HQ slightly.

Sorry Good but you don't make any playable sense...

To begin with HQ teleportation is a sequence to Player Teleportation in the Research Board but the method that is applied is quite different. I've never seen the PHQ entering a chamber and geting out of it in the destination

Second the need of Teleportation was created by the "magical" dissappearence of the Jump Drive, which had a one off cost and then it only depended on available Energy Cells in the ship's hold (I uderstand that the fact of the Builder's minimal hold forbids such a mechanic but I don't see why it was made so)

Third the cooldown period is a double edged sword and will result in much more saves/loads, therefore the time for this will definitely exceed any "cooldown" time.

Fourth, to implement any of your proposals the player must stop "falling through the gaps" in the teleporter room if the station they are teleported has any L/XL ship even momentarily docked and I don't see this addressed soon enough. While the initial "bug" of the player being stuck in nowhere space is fixed, when this unfortunate teleportation happens the only solution is teleport again to the same station...

In general it is good for a game to add feautures than to remove them IMHO...

[chew-ie]

Fourth, to implement any of your proposals the player must stop "falling through the gaps" in the teleporter room if the station they are teleported has any L/XL ship even momentarily docked and I don't see this addressed soon enough. While the initial "bug" of the player being stuck in nowhere space is fixed, when this unfortunate teleportation happens the only solution is teleport again to the same station...

This is a none-issue as it is part of the 6.0 currently in beta und shouldn't IMHO be brought up in "general X4 discussions" as this is - at the very least - misleading.

[-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-]

Considering the "lore" as a series of events that show a "technological progression", we can say that the implementation of the teleporter is something technologically superior to the jumpdrive.
Although they may seem similar, teleportation is something "further". What I'm not convinced about X4's teleportation is the fact that it is possible to teleport a station as large as the PHQ, but it is not possible to teleport the ship the player is piloting.

I partially agree with the proposal made by Imperial Good, but I would apply a slightly different system by implementing some goodies.

The player's teleport could only be used through some inventory items and have a cooldown that can be reduced through other ad hoc craftable inventory items (this already happens in the X Rebirth Jumpdrive).
The jump items would be easily available so as not to change the current use much and leave the player free to move many times, but the ones to reduce the cooldown would not.

The player's teleporter is supposed to be a technology part of the space suit.
The spacesuit should get some kind of quest where it would be possible to extend its range by extending it to the ship it drives, but it would require additional inventory items to be able to do so.

When it will be possible to do this, then the proposal made by Imperia Good regarding the long cooldown comes into play.

Did you just teleport aboard your Moreya? You have used up your energy cells and obtained your 5 minute cooldown by being able to teleport the distance commensurate with the cells your Moreya can have in the hold (example 10 range portals).

Have you teleported driving your Raptor with its 100 fighters and 10 corvettes inside? You will always be able to do it within the maximum range that allows the cargo hold full of energy cells of the Raptor itself.
You moved 7 portals and got a 1 hour cooldown (which is the same amount of time it can take for the Raptor to normally move that distance).

Do you want to do it with Erlking? You have the advantage that it can carry 55000 energy cells and therefore would be the only ship capable of moving from one side of the universe to the other, getting maybe 2 hours of cooldown.

Teladi ships would benefit from this system because they have larger cargo holds, but at the same time, being Teladi ships, they would not bring a war imbalance into the game.
Instead, you would be able to cause havoc with the Split ships which, however, having smaller cargo, could not intervene with the same timing as the Teladi ones.
In this way you would be able to maintain a sort of war balance on the battlefield.

So could you think of finding the exploit to be able to teleport 10 super modded Raptors on the battlefield?
No, because the previous cooldown implemented on the player suit would not allow you to do it more than 2-3 times and only if you found the inventory items that allow you to teleport on ships.

This in my opinion is what is missing in X4's teleport system

Ah yes, always going back to the "lore", the "Ventures" will soon be back, where we talk about the "Multiverse", something technologically even more advanced than the teleportation itself

[magitsu]

In general it is good for a game to add feautures than to remove them IMHO...

Removing is so rare that it's very unappreciated. Feature creep games should do more of it and X4 is close to one.
But sometimes niche features are interesting for developers personal growth or something. Then some good old sunk cost fallacy, players far more accepting to the idea of additions than removals...
Multiverse probably is worth experimenting. Terraforming imo was a waste, it just adds more questions about landing on planets/fps gameplay, which would be adding to creep.

[Baddieus]

I'm OK with the Teleport feature, however do believe a few changes to its operation might be a good thing.

Currently I can teleport from any location or ship to another of my own ships, stations, or +30 rep friendly stations. Doing so kind of feels like cheating, but I sure don't mind when one of my ships is in trouble and I want to take over immediately. If I were to change things it would be that from the PHQ there would be a teleport room that can send me anywhere, but once there I would need to get to another teleport room to do so again. To that end I would have a teleport module add-on for a station that would just show up as an option from the transporter rather than be an actual whole station module that needs to be added on & built separately. This could also require 10k energy cells (or more) to activate each time. This method would encourage the player to keep more stations throughout the verse to be able to teleport from.

=Badddieus=

[magitsu]

Is there any lore about the anomalies? Since they pretty much do haphazard teleporting.

[Radamanthe Nemes]

The teleportation feature in X4 is great. We no longer have jumpdrives (also great) so we needed a convenient way to get around, because who (apart from me) like what many would call 'tedium'.

I don't agree with you appreciation. I preferred the way it worked in X3, through jump drives. It had a device and a cost. It was limited to the quantity of energy cells you can hold. It added to gameplay and economy.

The feature itself raises a pretty serious issue in terms of lore and world building.

Completely arbitrary teleportation is such a reality changer that any story involving logistics in any way is flawed by its possibility. One cannot embrasse it and have a solid lore involving the cost of transporting anything anywhere. It would just make space and time irrelevant, and probably the universe quite boring.

I hate seeing story tellers trying to include it in their lore. Arbitrary teleportation only weakens the credibility. I can only accept it as a raw game mechanic (without that useless attempt to put it in the lore) with the unique incentive to avoid repetitive tasks, such as boarding your ship after an EVA. Do advance the simulation accordingly for the time it should take to move there and you’ll have my blessing. And yes, this involves that I don't agree with how it is done in X4, not only the lore attempt, but the simplistic mechanic itself.

So...
Quantum entanglement is a big buzzword in science right now - and while it cant actually be used for what im about to suggest as far as scientists are concerned (for now?), perhaps we can suspend our disbelief here and use it much like other sci-fi franchises do (like Mass Effect).

Quantum entanglement has nothing to do with teleportation. Mass Effect vulgarized it into its lore – admittedly in a quite good way – though only regarding the transmission of information (which is probably the only admissible way of considering quantum entanglement, even if strictly unusable scientifically speaking without violating relativity) and with the restriction of being attainable to the only one person (the Illusive Man) which had the resources to make it work and use it to exclusively communicate with its main minion (you).

I propose for future X games making up some fairly plausible system in the lore that allows the player to use augmented reality to control remote ships in realtime

That's what Elite did, but only as a pretext for cooperative multiplay in the same ship. The lore would be ok if you could do it solo with your own ships...

[jlehtone]

I preferred the way it worked in X3, through jump drives. It had a device and a cost. It was limited to the quantity of energy cells you can hold. It added to gameplay and economy.

I think that one should acknowledge that there are two aspects.
* One is the possibility to relocate person, ships, or PHQ. Transferring the player does not affect logistics, so it differs from the other transfers.
* The other aspect is what is the cost of relocation. Again, the player transfer has only one-time cost, "research", that is practically ignorable.

With two aspects there are two separate discussions.
The first is what can be relocated. X4 is ok in that. The PHQ transfer has lore, and both (PHQ, player) have mechanical reason.
The second is the cost of relocation. Should the transfer of person have per-use cost? Sure, why not -- as said I don't use it so you can add any cost you want.

[magitsu]

It added to gameplay and economy.

Certainly not into economy. That amount of ecells is completely meaningless to economy, it's only a restriction/tedium. Protectyon is almost as meaningless to economy, but at least it's there thematically to protect.

Compared to X3, in XR refueling had a specific station. It generated conga lines due to very slow docking procedure. If the AI would be able to prioritize this kind of logistical key target, it could be interesting. But it can't and if it had one, it wouldn't also understand how important it would be to rebuild if it somehow lost it.
Somehow it seems that JD as a concept gives too much freedom for an AI to handle. Like AI naval gameplay in most games. What it can handle is 2D with chokes.

As a player only tool I accept the reasoning if it's to lessen tedium. Overall X is maybe slightly too empowering/reliant on player, it should function maybe a little more independently. Cog is more realistic than god/hero. Power fantasy is too overplayed trope in gaming. But it's probably to find alternate ways to provide fun. Losing, exploration, procedural storytelling are other forms.

JD/Teleport might also be necessary for the concept of ventures. Because getting to alternate universe kind of requires something more than superhighway/gate. Anomaly could of course cover for that if necessary.

[jlehtone]

It added to gameplay and economy.

Certainly not into economy. That amount of ecells is completely meaningless to economy, it's only a restriction/tedium.

Only player had jumpdrives in X2/X3. The player's jumping trader fleet had significant effect on the economy, like you note:

As a player only tool I accept the reasoning if it's to lessen tedium. Overall X is maybe slightly too empowering/reliant on player, it should function maybe a little more independently.

The X4 economy ought to be almost robust on its own.

The player:
The two extremes are that (A) everything is about the player, and (B) player is completely insignificant. Neither is fun for long.
If nothing you do makes any real difference, then you are not amused. (Apart from plots, X3 was that.)
If even a single friendly fire hit escalates your reputation to Public Enemy number One, ...

[Maebius]

X3TC had loads of plots, and it annoyed me to no end. I personally am rather happy that there aren't too many plots to deal with and that we can 'finish' most of them by choosing a custom gamestart. However, ingame articles, news and such are different. I would also appreciate a return of the BBS and it's news articles.

I loved (re)learning stuff about the factions and stuff from the plots but yeah, if you already knew most things and just wanted to "unlock" the universe for the sandbox experience, they could be tiresome.

However, especially for new players, not knowing "what's going on" can be really anticlimactic. Most non-hardcore players need to get (even slightly) emotionally attached to a race/faction/story first, before really getting hooked on the game.
If they don't, they might never really dive into it and fully appreciate the awesome sandbox experience it provides.

This isn't me just guessing, it's feedback I've gotten from friends of mine.

[Flippi]

I loved (re)learning stuff about the factions and stuff from the plots but yeah, if you already knew most things and just wanted to "unlock" the universe for the sandbox experience, they could be tiresome.

To be honest, back then I had to restart several times due to Egosoft patches breaking things or making things weird, so I grew tired really fast from all the plots. It also didn't help that you weren't able to repaint your ships until the HQ was unlocked, which back then was a giant PITA to say the least (thanks to the Hub Plot being a requirement). At that time, I really grew annoyed to all the plot missions which were either requirements, or had important rewards you didn't want to miss. The presentation also didn't help, as it was just quantity over quality in many cases.

However, especially for new players, not knowing "what's going on" can be really anticlimactic. Most non-hardcore players need to get (even slightly) emotionally attached to a race/faction/story first, before really getting hooked on the game.
If they don't, they might never really dive into it and fully appreciate the awesome sandbox experience it provides.

This isn't me just guessing, it's feedback I've gotten from friends of mine.

I got hooked on the Game's universe in X2, which only had one singular plot, and not more. Additionally, the BBS news articles and sector descriptions helped too I guess. So in all honesty, I think only having a few quality plots is better than having dozens of "story missions" that are bad or meh at best. Quality over quantity would be better I think. Also it really helped with immersion that Egosoft actually did planetary stuff back then. With the cutscenes and all.