Futuristic Wishes

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Alan Phipps
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Re: Futuristic Wishes

Post by Alan Phipps » Mon, 17. Oct 22, 17:38

In hindsight, I think it would have made a bit more of an immediate impression on the player (and given immediate utility) if the PHQ had arrived with a working set of Terran S/M and capital docks, Admin Centre status and some Terran Habitation capability already built into the 'unknown' base station. I think even its initial description in the HQ plot implied that it should have integral habitation capability and a PHQ also being an Admin Centre capable of claiming an unclaimed sector or contesting a claimed one is pretty logical. Expanding it into a mega complex and/or major capital parking lot (if those are what the player wishes) can be later options.

Hmm, we may be duplicating threads now.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

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Re: Futuristic Wishes

Post by GCU Grey Area » Mon, 17. Oct 22, 19:13

ahostofissues wrote:
Mon, 17. Oct 22, 17:26
Nothing personal, I’m glad you like what you’re doing… but my reaction is “meh”. It’s a big factory. Like every other factory, like any factory you could build anywhere in any sector. All the same.

My point is there’s nothing to strive for, no “cool!” factor at all when the only thing that distinguishes the “headquarters” from every other factory in the game is (a) a research room, (b) the fact that you call it Headquarters.
No mere factory can jump anywhere, terraform planets, train my pilots & marines, etc. HQ can, which is precisely why I bolt so much stuff onto it. It's exceptionally convenient to be able to take my production & ship maintenance facilities with me whenever I move it. Always plenty of docks too, so when the station jumps an entire fleet of ships can jump with it. In particular, in games where I've terraformed Atiyas or SPG bringing along a substantial fleet of warships has proved extraordinarily useful, to swiftly deal with the local Xenon infestation & secure supply lines to my network of mining outposts & trade stations.

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Re: Futuristic Wishes

Post by ahostofissues » Mon, 17. Oct 22, 23:27

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Mon, 17. Oct 22, 19:13
No mere factory can jump anywhere, terraform planets, train my pilots & marines, etc. HQ can, which is precisely why I bolt so much stuff onto it. It's exceptionally convenient to be able to take my production & ship maintenance facilities with me whenever I move it. Always plenty of docks too, so when the station jumps an entire fleet of ships can jump with it. In particular, in games where I've terraformed Atiyas or SPG bringing along a substantial fleet of warships has proved extraordinarily useful, to swiftly deal with the local Xenon infestation & secure supply lines to my network of mining outposts & trade stations.
That’s fair. Good points. But also late-game stuff, doesn’t apply for much of the game. Until you get far enough to build that big shipyard and component factories and research the late-state teleportation and all the precursors to terraforming, none of this applies. Until then, 100% “just a factory like any other.”

Also I’d point out that Terraforming is considered by many (myself included) a “do it once, then never bother again” feature added as a sort of weak attempt by Egosoft to give you something to do in late game. If you like the terraforming thing, more power to you. But I’m definitely in the camp of “terraforming is mostly a huge grind for no real benefit” camp so anything having to do with the player HQ being useful Because Terraforming is unpersuasive in terms of raising my appreciation of the HQ implementation.

And of course Boso Must Die. I literally have to mute the sound every time I go through the station appearance routine. Hearing that blather for the 10th time is zero percent fun. It wears off.

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Re: Futuristic Wishes

Post by GCU Grey Area » Tue, 18. Oct 22, 00:34

ahostofissues wrote:
Mon, 17. Oct 22, 23:27
That’s fair. Good points. But also late-game stuff, doesn’t apply for much of the game. Until you get far enough to build that big shipyard and component factories and research the late-state teleportation and all the precursors to terraforming, none of this applies. Until then, 100% “just a factory like any other.”

Also I’d point out that Terraforming is considered by many (myself included) a “do it once, then never bother again” feature added as a sort of weak attempt by Egosoft to give you something to do in late game. If you like the terraforming thing, more power to you. But I’m definitely in the camp of “terraforming is mostly a huge grind for no real benefit” camp so anything having to do with the player HQ being useful Because Terraforming is unpersuasive in terms of raising my appreciation of the HQ implementation.

And of course Boso Must Die. I literally have to mute the sound every time I go through the station appearance routine. Hearing that blather for the 10th time is zero percent fun. It wears off.
Terraforming is not entirely a late game activity for me. Although making the planet as a whole habitable is something I do indeed leave until late game, much of first few days of a new game for me revolves around getting my HQ mobile, jumping it to a suitable sector ASAP, then building a bubble city & training facilities for my marines & pilots on the planet. Have found those latter 2 structures to be highly beneficial throughout a game, so the earlier I can get them up & running the better. Using 4-5* marines from the outset (rather than the cannon fodder you get from shipyards) means I can do most of my boarding in a fast nimble M ship. Find that much more fun than having to fly a slow ponderous L instead, simply to have a big enough crew to make boarding viable using an attritional approach with a high mortality rate. There are also distinct benefits to being able to churn out 4* pilots in batches of 100 - warships fly & fight better, while miners are significantly more efficient (particularly silicon).

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Re: Futuristic Wishes

Post by ahostofissues » Tue, 18. Oct 22, 00:46

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Tue, 18. Oct 22, 00:34
Terraforming is not entirely a late game activity for me. Although making the planet as a whole habitable is something I do indeed leave until late game, much of first few days of a new game for me revolves around getting my HQ mobile, jumping it to a suitable sector ASAP, then building a bubble city & training facilities for my marines & pilots on the planet. Have found those latter 2 structures to be highly beneficial throughout a game, so the earlier I can get them up & running the better. Using 4-5* marines from the outset (rather than the cannon fodder you get from shipyards) means I can do most of my boarding in a fast nimble M ship. Find that much more fun than having to fly a slow ponderous L instead, simply to have a big enough crew to make boarding viable using an attritional approach with a high mortality rate. There are also distinct benefits to being able to churn out 4* pilots in batches of 100 - warships fly & fight better, while miners are significantly more efficient (particularly silicon).
Very different play styles then. I’ve never flown a boarding (L) ship. I’m always in the tiny fighter using Paranid burst rays to take out the turrets, boarding marine ship is just there in the background when I’m ready. The idea of flying the boarding ship myself seems… why? And in terms of focus, I’m generally focused on getting some capabilities up quickly to beat back the Xenon early before they start to transform the shape of the galaxy. The idea of spending all that time and effort focusing on getting to (what I consider to be boring) Terraforming as my focus is pretty much exactly the opposite of what I consider fun.

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Re: Futuristic Wishes

Post by GCU Grey Area » Tue, 18. Oct 22, 02:24

ahostofissues wrote:
Tue, 18. Oct 22, 00:46
Very different play styles then. I’ve never flown a boarding (L) ship. I’m always in the tiny fighter using Paranid burst rays to take out the turrets, boarding marine ship is just there in the background when I’m ready. The idea of flying the boarding ship myself seems… why? And in terms of focus, I’m generally focused on getting some capabilities up quickly to beat back the Xenon early before they start to transform the shape of the galaxy. The idea of spending all that time and effort focusing on getting to (what I consider to be boring) Terraforming as my focus is pretty much exactly the opposite of what I consider fun.
Yes, clearly a very different approach. Very much prefer flying an M myself, more often than not a frigate. Find S ships a bit too fragile in a fight & L's a bit too cumbersome. Don't like having to use a separate boarding ship. That either means having it follow me everywhere I go, periodically waiting for it to catch up, or leaving it parked somewhere, then waiting for it to meet me if I spot a target of opportunity. Neither of those options is particularly appealing. As far as is possible I prefer to have everything I need to do as many activities as possible in a single ship - hence frigate with docked miner (some quite lucrative missions require one) & a small boarding squad of first rate marines who can murder their way through most ship crews, even if outnumbered 10:1.

Don't tend to worry about the Xenon myself & at the start of a new game I'm never in a rush to do anything about them personally. They might make some early gains but within a few days the NPC factions can usually tool up enough to cope (with the notable exception of ZYA who are in a really crappy situation right from the start, surrounded on all sides by enemies). Indeed consider it in my best interests for the Xenon be as strong as possible. Major source of my mid-late game income & high end weapon mods come from Xenon station demolition missions - if the Xenon get beaten back too far I don't get paid & I don't get my weapon mods. :(

As for time & effort spent on Terraforming, remember for the early game I'm only building a bubble city & a couple of training facilities. They're quick & easy. Not sure focus is the right word either when it comes to Terraforming. Almost all of my time is spent doing missions for the factions, trading with them, stealing from them (etc) & I spend the proceeds from those activities on buying blueprints & constructing production, storage & docks at my HQ. Terraforming is something which pretty much entirely happens in the background. Only real effort involved is clicking on the project I'd like my HQ to do next when the previous one has finished - very similar to HQ research in that respect.

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Re: Futuristic Wishes

Post by ahostofissues » Wed, 19. Oct 22, 02:06

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Tue, 18. Oct 22, 02:24
ahostofissues wrote:
Tue, 18. Oct 22, 00:46
Very different play styles then. I’ve never flown a boarding (L) ship. I’m always in the tiny fighter using Paranid burst rays to take out the turrets, …
… is pretty much exactly the opposite of what I consider fun.
Yes, clearly a very different approach. Very much prefer flying an M myself, …

Don't tend to worry about the Xenon myself & at the start of a new game I'm never in a rush to do anything about them …
This is why I love X4 so much despite some truly monumentally horrid choices about UI implementation and just outright failures of player experience design… You and I are almost playing two different games, in some senses, but X4 allows both to work.

Still: Boso Must Die.

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