Idea: Reintroduce Jump Drive via optional research

[HammerHead91]

The reasons for X4 jumpdrive decisions were asked for above:

See this old X4 introduction post from CBJ.

A different dev (I think) also said something along the lines of: 'A lot of time is spent making spectacular and even interesting in-game locations for the players to visit, explore and enjoy, and then, once they get jumpdrives, they hardly ever visit them again but just go directly to the next mission objective.'

Because teleporting or hitting alt-tab as your pilot flies you is much more engaging lol.

Indeed. No jump drive? Use teleportation. I usually park Pegasuses in faction headquarters for this purpose.

But the Dev idea of "we made so many wonderful things for you to explore!" is not sound. All it tells us is that the "spectacular and even interesting" things ... well, they can't be that spectacular or interesting if people happily skip them.

Forcing people to bump into yet another asteroid in the meantime is simple madness.

[Diroc]

I'd like to see the return of an unfocused jump drive that spits players out of random anomalies (Similar to the exit after entering one.)
The charge up and trigger portion and ui entries would have to be made. A method for unlocking the drive would need to be added as would inventory items, encyclopedia entries and perhaps crafting recipes but the functionality (exiting an anomaly) already exists.

I'd also like to see pirates with unfocused jump drives spawning in to the universe at anomalies. (Perhaps after a research quest line for pirates.)
Perhaps also pirates using anomalies.
Unfocused jump drive as the only access to a few new sectors could be interesting.

The classic Jump Drive by comparison destroys the concept of trade and defense/offense distances, dangerous areas and severely limits the risk from pirates.
Suddenly, only the largest cargo hold matters and faster or better armed trader ships and defense fleets become irrelevant.

Consider the following scenario...
Load up a huge cargo hold. Pick a station anywhere and in an instant the ship only needs to fly across a single sector to deliver those goods.

The classic Jump Drive causes irreconcilable problems with trade and warfare in the conventional sense.

Realistically, unfocused jump drive, as described, is of questionable usefulness, but could add some interesting twists to pirates or an upcoming plot line.

The classic Jump Drive is approximately as transformative as a "Click here to win!" button. It defeats the purpose of so much gameplay.

[mr.WHO]

Voting "NO" - personal teleportation already cover basic jump drive utility, while HQ teleportation cover "material" jump drive utility (plus "tactical nuke" effect for everything in range of jump location).


There is simply no point or niche for JD anymore, especially that AI wouldn't be able to use it.
If it would be common use for moving inside star system (would need to expand current sectors to be more granular, similar to Sol), like in XR, then it might be OK, but if only exclusive for player/player assets than this is very imbalanced.

[Greenhorn]

I vote Nooo,for this game..
But I did like the (unfocused jump drive) to some extent.

Mining,and spacéflies,xenon and finding that wierd huge ship.

If egosoft do a unfocus jd ,I hope they add pirates/ yaki pirates can do it too.

[Beaconsilver]

Voted No

Makes the game to easy. Not really an epic space strategy game if everything is given to the player on a silver platter.
If anything border security should be tightened up around factions, making travel harder like it would actually happen in irl. Also not a big fan of teleportation. It just feels cheap.

[TheDeliveryMan]

The UFJD sectors from X3 do not need the jump drive mechanic, access to those sectors can be given by anomalies.

[S!rAssassin]

The UFJD sectors from X3 do not need the jump drive mechanic, access to those sectors can be given by anomalies.

Wish those sectors be truly random generated, not just some premaded. I wish to explore new for interests and profitssss...

[flywlyx]

Jumpdrive totally removes strategic depth, every system is a border system and there are no remote systems. The player could jump right into Savage Spur 1, while the Xenon could jump right into Path To Profit.

Players could use a single battleship to eliminate all the Xenon, the intelligence level of AI doesn't support any strategic depth in X4.

[GCU Grey Area]

Players could use a single battleship to eliminate all the Xenon, the intelligence level of AI doesn't support any strategic depth in X4.

There are however also people, such as myself, who don't use battleships (mixed fleets are much more interesting to use) & have no interest whatsoever in eliminating all Xenon from the game. Indeed that would be entirely counter-productive for me. Blowing up Xenon stations for fun & profit is a significant source of mid-late game income & weapon mods for me. No Xenon = no Xenon stations = no fun or profit from smashing them. Do however want to control where the Xenon can travel to keep my freighters safe. Consequently guarding gates to Xenon sectors is most definitely an important strategic concern for me.

[flywlyx]

There are however also people, such as myself, who don't use battleships (mixed fleets are much more interesting to use) & have no interest whatsoever in eliminating all Xenon from the game. Indeed that would be entirely counter-productive for me. Blowing up Xenon stations for fun & profit is a significant source of mid-late game income & weapon mods for me. No Xenon = no Xenon stations = no fun or profit from smashing them. Do however want to control where the Xenon can travel to keep my freighters safe. Consequently guarding gates to Xenon sectors is most definitely an important strategic concern for me.

Putting some guns before the gate and waiting for mindless AI delivers free material to you has nothing to do with "strategic depth". It is even easier than using a battleship to eliminate all the Xenon.
On the contrary, AIs totally ignoring the gate limit will give X4 some "strategic depth" since you can't easily beat them with a single defense station anymore.

[Raptor34]

There are however also people, such as myself, who don't use battleships (mixed fleets are much more interesting to use) & have no interest whatsoever in eliminating all Xenon from the game. Indeed that would be entirely counter-productive for me. Blowing up Xenon stations for fun & profit is a significant source of mid-late game income & weapon mods for me. No Xenon = no Xenon stations = no fun or profit from smashing them. Do however want to control where the Xenon can travel to keep my freighters safe. Consequently guarding gates to Xenon sectors is most definitely an important strategic concern for me.

Putting some guns before the gate and waiting for mindless AI delivers free material to you has nothing to do with "strategic depth". It is even easier than using a battleship to eliminate all the Xenon.
On the contrary, AIs totally ignoring the gate limit will give X4 some "strategic depth" since you can't easily beat them with a single defense station anymore.

We already have that. It's called Khaak.

[GCU Grey Area]

Putting some guns before the gate and waiting for mindless AI delivers free material to you has nothing to do with "strategic depth". It is even easier than using a battleship to eliminate all the Xenon.
On the contrary, AIs totally ignoring the gate limit will give X4 some "strategic depth" since you can't easily beat them with a single defense station anymore.

Obviously you & I play the game in very different ways. X4 is a sandbox rather than a strategy game, if you want strategic depth you need to play in a manner that is conducive to that. I only build so many gate defence fleets (2 in my current game), I need to choose carefully where to deploy them. I only build defence platforms for NPC factions, which means waiting for an appropriate build mission. Would also be counter-productive to give those stations too many guns, sometimes other factions will pay me well to blow up a station I've just built for one of their rivals. Consequently I generally give such stations (at most) a similar number of defence modules to those that they build for themselves. In the early phases of a new game they're often considerably weaker. There would be no strategic depth if factions could simply ignore border defences & jump anywhere at will.

[flywlyx]

We already have that. It's called Khaak.

Khaak doesn't have L+ ships to really threaten players, but it is adding a lot "strategic depth" to the game.

Obviously you & I play the game in very different ways. X4 is a sandbox rather than a strategy game, if you want strategic depth you need to play in a manner that is conducive to that. I only build so many gate defence fleets (2 in my current game), I need to choose carefully where to deploy them. I only build defence platforms for NPC factions, which means waiting for an appropriate build mission. Would also be counter-productive to give those stations too many guns, sometimes other factions will pay me well to blow up a station I've just built for one of their rivals. Consequently I generally give such stations (at most) a similar number of defence modules to those that they build for themselves. In the early phases of a new game they're often considerably weaker. There would be no strategic depth if factions could simply ignore border defences & jump anywhere at will.

You can limit yourself to whatever level, the thing is, more strategic depth means it is harder to control the AI as you want.
It is ok if you like how AI could be put in a pot in the current game, but this is a sign of lacking strategic depth.

[GCU Grey Area]

You can limit yourself to whatever level, the thing is, more strategic depth means it is harder to control the AI as you want.
It is ok if you like how AI could be put in a pot in the current game, but this is a sign of lacking strategic depth.

Not entirely sure what you mean, your 'put in a pot' idiom in particular is not something I've encountered before. Nevertheless have found X4 most enjoyable on a strategic level if I pick one or more factions (often the same as my character's origin in the starting scenario) & do what I can to help them prosper & expand. Trading with them & building infrastructure for them, helping to guard their borders & assisting with invasions into neighbouring sectors, etc. ZYA start in particular is one of my favourites due to how monstrously unfair it is to ZYA with powerful enemies on all sides at the start. Really got a buzz when I helped them to do this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9pigni4nqh3ly ... 1.jpg?dl=0

[flywlyx]

Not entirely sure what you mean, your 'put in a pot' idiom in particular is not something I've encountered before.

Obviously, you put Xenon into a pot by

Consequently guarding gates to Xenon sectors is most definitely an important strategic concern for me.

There is nothing wrong with how you play the game and like the game in its current state, the thing is, adding teleportation will add complexity to the game system which adds strategic depth to the game.

[Raptor34]

Not entirely sure what you mean, your 'put in a pot' idiom in particular is not something I've encountered before.

Obviously, you put Xenon into a pot by

Consequently guarding gates to Xenon sectors is most definitely an important strategic concern for me.

There is nothing wrong with how you play the game and like the game in its current state, the thing is, adding teleportation will add complexity to the game system which adds strategic depth to the game.

Only if there is an opportunity cost to it.

[flywlyx]

Only if there is an opportunity cost to it.

The game is here already, any change made will come with opportunity cost since no one could foresee the result.

[jlehtone]

On the contrary, AIs totally ignoring the gate limit will give X4 some "strategic depth" since you can't easily beat them with a single defense station anymore.

Does it? Or does it simplify the game? As is you can choose if, how, and where you stop Xenon. If you remove the option to stop Xenon, then you leave the "just kill them". Is that really "more depth"?

Not that it matters, both sides of the argument deem that their approach has "more strategic depth" and the other has "less". We clearly disagree on what "strategy" means. With no common terminology, how can we reach any productive conclusion?


X4 is designed to be without Jump Drive. Can we agree that X4 has plenty of details that dev resources could be allocated to ... within scope of its current design?

[Raptor34]

Only if there is an opportunity cost to it.

The game is here already, any change made will come with opportunity cost since no one could foresee the result.

Yeah right, obviously what I can see you're expecting is just being able to fit JDs fleet wide with no trade offs.

[GCU Grey Area]

Not entirely sure what you mean, your 'put in a pot' idiom in particular is not something I've encountered before.

Obviously, you put Xenon into a pot by

Consequently guarding gates to Xenon sectors is most definitely an important strategic concern for me.

There is nothing wrong with how you play the game and like the game in its current state, the thing is, adding teleportation will add complexity to the game system which adds strategic depth to the game.

Thanks for the clarification. When I read a post mentioning AI I tend to assume it's referring to code controlling ship movement, combat, etc. Your post is much clearer now I know you're referring to a faction being 'put in a pot'.

As for your other point, still far from convinced that letting factions jump around at will adds any complexity or strategic depth. Really like the border wars in X4. Not sure this aspect of the game would be improved if, for example, Second Contact II became a quiet sector because the war had devolved into Paranid fleets jumping straight to the Argon shipyard (& vice versa). In my current game Second Contact II's a fascinating place, there's almost always a fight going on somewhere. Someone different seems to own the sector every time I'm there because it's an essential stepping stone for further conquest. Even the Terrans owned it once, albeit very briefly (I got the Yaki to send a Xenon invasion fleet to Earth in retaliation).