Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum
-
- Posts: 3333
- Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
Did it maybe land on stations to be protected?
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
Yes, I have 2 M auto trader almost killed there.
They have exceptional shield MOD So they survive. But my S scout doesn't have the luck.
The problem is when AI enter the system after the warning, they won't flee. That is almost death sentence.
You could put a satellite around Tidebreak, every tide will kill some AI freights.
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
Upon further testing my Falcon Sentinel does abort its Explore command to flee to safety. So ship faction nor ship captain faction were the factors, nor the Explore vs Fly and Wait commands.
The required condition seems to be:
It remains to be investigated if other movement commands behave similarly:
The required condition seems to be:
- Player is out of sector
- Ship is docked at Tidebreak
- Once the tide is active order the ship to go explore Avarice I
- Ship gets destroyed traveling from Tidebreak to the superhighway leading to Avarice I
It remains to be investigated if other movement commands behave similarly:
- Fly and wait
- Update trade orders
- Collect drops
- Attack targets in range
-
- Posts: 3333
- Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
I think the issue here is that, at least as far as I can tell, ships only get notified ONCE to flee, namely when the tide is imminent and the first radio message gets played.
After the initial warning it seems no further flee-commands are given, any ships arriving in the sector or undocking after the first warning go about their day, ignoring any further tide radio warnings.
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
My ship was already in the sector, but docked at a station. It got destroyed trying to reach the next Avarice sector, because I told it to move. If the pilot was in charge they probably would have remained docked until the tide had subsided.
-
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Fri, 30. Sep 11, 14:09
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
The Tide definitely needs some improvements. If the station is broadcasting an alert, surely there would be other things going on warning pilots of the danger. They can broadcast the warning system-wide, and nothing interferes with communications from other sectors during the Tide.
Here's a simple idea to help things along in terms of game mechanics. Add a warning (visible to the player) when the Tide is coming and when the Tide is happening. On the map, add some yellow or red caution lines over the Avarice system before and during the Tide. At the gate to Avarice, make the gate change color to yellow and then red, again for before and during the Tide. If the gate can't have its color changed, add some sort of very visible beacon near the gate. These should be based on the first and final Tide warnings, respectively, and then everything returns to normal when it's all clear.
As for NPCs (be they player-owned or not), I saw another thread talking about ships fleeing too far both from the Tide and from simple combat. The fix is already being worked on for that, so yay. There does need to be something put in place for when NPCs are given orders before or during the Tide, though. Ships approaching the gate to Avarice should not jump through, and ships already docked in Avarice should not undock, while the Tide is coming, with the possibility of players overriding that behavior. With the final warning, ships should make one last attempt to dock at whatever station is closest or jump into Windfall if that gate is closer than any station. After the final warning, no ship, not even player-owned ships, should jump into or undock inside Avarice, until the Tide has cleared. While it would probably be a significant amount of work, the AI behavior for the Tide and the AI behavior for fleeing combat should not be linked at all. They should be two completely separate behaviors. The Tide is not combat, after all!
Here's a simple idea to help things along in terms of game mechanics. Add a warning (visible to the player) when the Tide is coming and when the Tide is happening. On the map, add some yellow or red caution lines over the Avarice system before and during the Tide. At the gate to Avarice, make the gate change color to yellow and then red, again for before and during the Tide. If the gate can't have its color changed, add some sort of very visible beacon near the gate. These should be based on the first and final Tide warnings, respectively, and then everything returns to normal when it's all clear.
As for NPCs (be they player-owned or not), I saw another thread talking about ships fleeing too far both from the Tide and from simple combat. The fix is already being worked on for that, so yay. There does need to be something put in place for when NPCs are given orders before or during the Tide, though. Ships approaching the gate to Avarice should not jump through, and ships already docked in Avarice should not undock, while the Tide is coming, with the possibility of players overriding that behavior. With the final warning, ships should make one last attempt to dock at whatever station is closest or jump into Windfall if that gate is closer than any station. After the final warning, no ship, not even player-owned ships, should jump into or undock inside Avarice, until the Tide has cleared. While it would probably be a significant amount of work, the AI behavior for the Tide and the AI behavior for fleeing combat should not be linked at all. They should be two completely separate behaviors. The Tide is not combat, after all!
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
I just checked my scout that survived exploring all three sectors of Avarice and it had a skill level of 3+ stars in both piloting and morale. So perhaps the pilot's level is the difference in surviving or not (among other factors such as the speed of the ship).
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.
X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.
X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
I felt the same
We should always have a timmer
We should always have a timmer
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
The problem is the warning is not constant.Nanook wrote: ↑Sat, 19. Mar 22, 18:18I just checked my scout that survived exploring all three sectors of Avarice and it had a skill level of 3+ stars in both piloting and morale. So perhaps the pilot's level is the difference in surviving or not (among other factors such as the speed of the ship).
If AI enter sector after the warning, it won't flee.
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Sat, 10. Dec 11, 03:10
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
I actually saw one of my ships waiting just outside of Avaraice until the tide was over before moving in. IIRC, I had ordered it to dock at some station in Avarice. So it might be skill related.
-
- Posts: 3333
- Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
Suggestion @ Egosoft :flywlyx wrote: ↑Sat, 19. Mar 22, 19:25The problem is the warning is not constant.Nanook wrote: ↑Sat, 19. Mar 22, 18:18I just checked my scout that survived exploring all three sectors of Avarice and it had a skill level of 3+ stars in both piloting and morale. So perhaps the pilot's level is the difference in surviving or not (among other factors such as the speed of the ship).
If AI enter sector after the warning, it won't flee.
There should be multiple triggers:
Fist, with every (!) radio signal moment and the moment the tide starts all ships in Avarice who are not already fleeing should get notified to flee.
Then, while the tide is active, every X (2~5?) seconds check all ships in Avarice. Those who are not already fleeing should get notified to flee, to catch cases where ships enter while the tide is active.
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
I created an energy cell station in Avarice IV and had a 1 star trader moving energy cells out via Repeat Orders: buy at station and sell at two others, outside of Avarice IV.
I was on board when it docked with my energy cell station in Avarice IV and heard the warning about the incoming tide. Then I heard the captain that we were undocking. I let it, to see what would happen and sure enough she piloted out of the station and started taking shield damage. Luckily I was able to take control before taking hull damage.
So, the ship was docked in Avarice IV when the tide warning was sent but left before the tide was over. Is the problem with the 1 star or the Repeat Orders?
Spoiler
Show
with a shield generator and 5 "fuel"
I was on board when it docked with my energy cell station in Avarice IV and heard the warning about the incoming tide. Then I heard the captain that we were undocking. I let it, to see what would happen and sure enough she piloted out of the station and started taking shield damage. Luckily I was able to take control before taking hull damage.
So, the ship was docked in Avarice IV when the tide warning was sent but left before the tide was over. Is the problem with the 1 star or the Repeat Orders?
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
Dont know if its doable ..
But how about Amber and Red traffic lights on gates entering Avarice?.
No lights = Enter
Amber = At first radio broadcast
Red = Not advised to enter just now, unless you want to be toast.
Although just thought you can't include warning anyone coming from Leap of Faith into Avarice because its not a gate. Humph!, thats how I got toasted first time, got too far back into Avarice and didn't have time to get to a gate / anomaly / station, I must have come back in just after the warnings.
Anyway, yeah +1 for some kind of solution.
But how about Amber and Red traffic lights on gates entering Avarice?.
No lights = Enter
Amber = At first radio broadcast
Red = Not advised to enter just now, unless you want to be toast.
Although just thought you can't include warning anyone coming from Leap of Faith into Avarice because its not a gate. Humph!, thats how I got toasted first time, got too far back into Avarice and didn't have time to get to a gate / anomaly / station, I must have come back in just after the warnings.
Anyway, yeah +1 for some kind of solution.
Laptop Dell G15 5510 : Win 11 x64
CPU - 10th Gen' Core I7 10870H 2.2-5.0ghz, GPU - NVidia Geforce RTX 3060, VRAM 6gb GDDR5,
RAM - 32gb (2x16gb, Dual Channel mode set in BIOS) DDR4 2933mhz Kingston Fury Impact,
SSD - Kioxia M.2 NVME 512gb (System), + Samsung M.2 NVME 970 Evo Plus 1tb (Games)
Long live Queen Polypheides and may her tentacles always be supple.
Seeker of Sohnen.
CPU - 10th Gen' Core I7 10870H 2.2-5.0ghz, GPU - NVidia Geforce RTX 3060, VRAM 6gb GDDR5,
RAM - 32gb (2x16gb, Dual Channel mode set in BIOS) DDR4 2933mhz Kingston Fury Impact,
SSD - Kioxia M.2 NVME 512gb (System), + Samsung M.2 NVME 970 Evo Plus 1tb (Games)
Long live Queen Polypheides and may her tentacles always be supple.
Seeker of Sohnen.
-
- Posts: 3333
- Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
When the Tide is active
Spoiler
Show
the usually blue gate singularity glow for the gate WindFall<->Avarice becomes orange and if you listen closely then you will also hear the noise from the Tide exiting the gate.
Once the Tide is over, the glow becomes blue again and the noise stops.
Once the Tide is over, the glow becomes blue again and the noise stops.
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
How are you supposed to learn about this tide?
I just got hit with this, lost 3 Manticore ships with no idea why. I guess I haven't progressed though the plot enough.
Reload I see some are waiting outside, and some docked and in FLEE mode. 3 other scrap ships are just going about their business. The one trying to deliver is 2 star, all the docked/flee are 1 star.
I just got hit with this, lost 3 Manticore ships with no idea why. I guess I haven't progressed though the plot enough.
Reload I see some are waiting outside, and some docked and in FLEE mode. 3 other scrap ships are just going about their business. The one trying to deliver is 2 star, all the docked/flee are 1 star.
-
- Posts: 3333
- Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
There are multiple ways, such as entering Avarice for the first time, which should trigger a story mission, which explains it.
Then you can also read the sector description of Avarice and the station descriptions of the Tidebreaker station.
Then you have radio messages being broadcasted in a long interval to let you know about the tide.
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
Place satellites in the sectors and watch what the ships are doing. If they are all making a run for the gate then do not enter. Usually they'll gather near the Windfall III and Avarice IV gate, on the Windfall III side. Just wait until they are moving.
Ship captains often stay safe, but not always. If you issue orders they'll often interrupt those orders and get to safety. But some times they will not and will take damage and possibly get destroyed.
Ship captains often stay safe, but not always. If you issue orders they'll often interrupt those orders and get to safety. But some times they will not and will take damage and possibly get destroyed.
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
Apparently I found another point of failure.
Two ships were safely docket at a station in Avarice IV during a Tide. I saved the game and quit. When I restarted the game those ships were no longer aware of the tide and undocked. Once they started taking damage they decided that it was better to travel halfway across the sector to the gate to Windfall III instead of returning to the safety of the station they had just left, just a few meters away.
I find it odd that none of these problems were detected during internal tests nor on the test server. Is it expected that players will lose ships to the tide since it is a high hazard zone?
Two ships were safely docket at a station in Avarice IV during a Tide. I saved the game and quit. When I restarted the game those ships were no longer aware of the tide and undocked. Once they started taking damage they decided that it was better to travel halfway across the sector to the gate to Windfall III instead of returning to the safety of the station they had just left, just a few meters away.
I find it odd that none of these problems were detected during internal tests nor on the test server. Is it expected that players will lose ships to the tide since it is a high hazard zone?
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
I have two ships doing Repeat Orders from Avarice IV to Windfall IV. One was stopped in Windfall IV with a "Wait for Signal" while the other was in Windfall III and just about to use the gate to Avarice IV before I took control and stopped it. To be clear, I was in Argon's wharf and teleported to the ship to stop it; I was not a passenger on board.
I had a trader from a Windfall IV station (not doing repeat orders) in Windfall III also doing "Wait for Signal".
I also had a Manticore "fleeing" in Windfall III; it was gathering scrap in Avarice IV and apparently ran to safety.
And I had a trader on Repeat Orders between Second Contact II and Avarice IV that stopped in Windfall III about halfway to the Avarice IV gate. However by that time I was in the Windfall III sector.
Finally I had a trader in getting repaired in Avarice I. It waited and waited, until it decided to get out in the tide to get destroyed. It was assigned to trade for a station in Avarice IV. I suspect it was about to buy Protectyon although I did not see its orders change.
I really don't understand this tide system. Most of the times the pilots know about the tide and get out of Avarice or do not gate into Avarice from Windfall III. But some times they go in to get destroyed. Some stop in Windfall III but others do not. Why ???
It's getting to the point where I do not want to spend time in those sectors. I'll probably play something else for a while. This is not fun.
I had a trader from a Windfall IV station (not doing repeat orders) in Windfall III also doing "Wait for Signal".
I also had a Manticore "fleeing" in Windfall III; it was gathering scrap in Avarice IV and apparently ran to safety.
And I had a trader on Repeat Orders between Second Contact II and Avarice IV that stopped in Windfall III about halfway to the Avarice IV gate. However by that time I was in the Windfall III sector.
Finally I had a trader in getting repaired in Avarice I. It waited and waited, until it decided to get out in the tide to get destroyed. It was assigned to trade for a station in Avarice IV. I suspect it was about to buy Protectyon although I did not see its orders change.
I really don't understand this tide system. Most of the times the pilots know about the tide and get out of Avarice or do not gate into Avarice from Windfall III. But some times they go in to get destroyed. Some stop in Windfall III but others do not. Why ???
It's getting to the point where I do not want to spend time in those sectors. I'll probably play something else for a while. This is not fun.
Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?
We need a precise timer (If a space DJ has this knowledge and broadcast it every now and then, we should have it too)
Make it visible in the Encyclopedia for example, it would be refreshed only when we check it. (no CPU strain added)
Make it visible in the Encyclopedia for example, it would be refreshed only when we check it. (no CPU strain added)