Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

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vitorawr
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Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by vitorawr » Wed, 16. Mar 22, 00:12

A console or display timer or like the tide will strike soon should be awesome, if present in the tidebreak station. that we can see on foot idk. I find myself waiting docked in tidebreak like a coward and i dont know when to expect the tide ;/

Prosik
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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Prosik » Wed, 16. Mar 22, 00:50

I agree. Was thinking along those same lines earlier today.

darkstar12
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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by darkstar12 » Wed, 16. Mar 22, 01:10

There is the Radio transmission some 5-10 minutes before the tide hits from Tidebreak is there not?
And so it Begins.

Imperial Good
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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Imperial Good » Wed, 16. Mar 22, 08:26

darkstar12 wrote:
Wed, 16. Mar 22, 01:10
There is the Radio transmission some 5-10 minutes before the tide hits from Tidebreak is there not?
Only when in sector. If you are out of sector it is not possible to know when the tide will hit. Sure you can observe ships fleeing near the time, but not all ships do this correctly.

Rei Ayanami
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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Rei Ayanami » Wed, 16. Mar 22, 09:14

I disagree. The Tide should be something unpredictable, which people in-world can only detect shortly before it happens, just like a volcano about to break out.
If you slap a visible timer on it you remove all tension.
If the problem is the player not being present during the radio transmissions, have the last transmission being played the moment the player enters the sector.
Also, i'm pretty sure the color/brightness of the sun changes shortly before the tide happens, so you can pay attention to that when entering the sector.

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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Imperial Good » Wed, 16. Mar 22, 09:40

Rei Ayanami wrote:
Wed, 16. Mar 22, 09:14
I disagree. The Tide should be something unpredictable, which people in-world can only detect shortly before it happens, just like a volcano about to break out.
If you slap a visible timer on it you remove all tension.
If the problem is the player not being present during the radio transmissions, have the last transmission being played the moment the player enters the sector.
Also, i'm pretty sure the color/brightness of the sun changes shortly before the tide happens, so you can pay attention to that when entering the sector.
The issue is the player managing their assets in the sector when not in sector. You can literally com your transporter captains in Avarice from anywhere in the universe but seemingly it is impossible to relay information that they know about the tide to you automatically.

Ideally the map view should have a unique mechanic for Avarice which relays the status of the tide to the player if they own assets in the sector. For example selecting the sector could show a clock of sorts, or the sector could change colour or have some sort of visual indicator depending on the current state.

Currently unless the player is in sector you are left guessing as to the state of the tide. If ships are moving feely then usually that means you are somewhere in the hour period of no tide. If significant number of ships are fleeing and refusing to undock then that generally means tide is about to happen or is happening. If you see stations and ships that are not docked and without hazard reduction chassis mods be damaged that generally means the tide is happening.

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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Rei Ayanami » Wed, 16. Mar 22, 10:58

I guess we could have a new entry/category in the sector information window for displaying the tide status with the values
- Inactive,
- Imminent (gets set when the first radio message would have been played)
- Active (gets set when the last radio warning would have been played, shortly before the actual emission)

It could be an entry only enabled by a radio subscription license we have to buy from Riptide Rakers' representative, so a new player does not have access to it immediately/before entering the sector the first time.
With the radio subscription we could also get notifications about the tide's status on our message display panel in the ship, similar to war update messages.

Just no timer please.

Good Wizard
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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Good Wizard » Wed, 16. Mar 22, 11:41

Rei Ayanami wrote:
Wed, 16. Mar 22, 10:58
I guess we could have a new entry/category in the sector information window for displaying the tide status with the values
- Inactive,
- Imminent (gets set when the first radio message would have been played)
- Active (gets set when the last radio warning would have been played, shortly before the actual emission)

It could be an entry only enabled by a radio subscription license we have to buy from Riptide Rakers' representative, so a new player does not have access to it immediately/before entering the sector the first time.
With the radio subscription we could also get notifications about the tide's status on our message display panel in the ship, similar to war update messages.

Just no timer please.
That's a good idea actually, I think! Subscription to information, can be bought at reputation 0+ or 5+ or so.

oddgit
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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by oddgit » Wed, 16. Mar 22, 22:20

I agree, i think it being simi random is neat, but because of a gameplay loop involved with it, a subscription or other notification service would be pretty helpful.

Galinet
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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Galinet » Fri, 18. Mar 22, 13:55

This game mechanic is not fun.

I was out of sector and told a Falcon Sentinel to undock from Avarice IV and go "explore" Avarice I. I did not know the tide was up and the ship got quickly destroyed, before reaching the other sector.

Earlier I was in the starter ship (Smuggler's game start), the Raleigh (Container) and had plotted numerous "fly and wait" commands to have it explore Avarice IV. I had switched out of the game to watch a video and did not hear the tide warning. However when I came back to the game the pilot was "flee" to Windfall III.

Why did the Falcon pilot not flee, because it was a Teladi ship with a Teladi Captain? Do only the new ships and/or the new faction pilots flee from the tide? Was it because the Falcon was flying toward the "explore" command area and they cannot flee until they actually start exploring?

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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Nanook » Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:00

Has anyone actually had a ship damaged or destroyed in Avarice due to the tides while the player was nowhere near Avarice? I ask because I set a surveyor ship to map those sectors, and it did so continuously for several game hours and nothing happened to it.
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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by chew-ie » Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:03

Nanook wrote:
Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:00
Has anyone actually had a ship damaged or destroyed in Avarice due to the tides while the player was nowhere near Avarice? I ask because I set a surveyor ship to map those sectors, and it did so continuously for several game hours and nothing happened to it.
NPC ships duck'n cover - I read reports about player salvaging vessels abort their operations and fly to safety.

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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Nanook » Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:12

That didn't answer my question, though. Have you had ships damaged or destroyed? What you just posted could be scripted response while the player is OOS.
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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Rei Ayanami » Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:12

Nanook wrote:
Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:00
Has anyone actually had a ship damaged or destroyed in Avarice due to the tides while the player was nowhere near Avarice? I ask because I set a surveyor ship to map those sectors, and it did so continuously for several game hours and nothing happened to it.
Yep, they can be destroyed. I had a Manticore in the sector and observed it through the map, while being outside the sector.
Once the tide began and its flee command got started, I canceled its flee command and told it stay put. Well, it got pulverized, lost about 20~30% shield/hull per second.

In most cases the automatic flee command should be enough, but I also saw some slower ships who didn't make it in time.

And there are also some idiots who dock to escape the tide, but shortly after, but still before the tide, undock and resume their duties (RIP).
Last edited by Rei Ayanami on Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:14, edited 1 time in total.

Nanook
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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Nanook » Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:14

So I wonder why my little scouting surveyor never got hit. :gruebel:
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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Rei Ayanami » Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:16

Did it maybe land on stations to be protected?

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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by flywlyx » Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:29

Nanook wrote:
Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:12
That didn't answer my question, though. Have you had ships damaged or destroyed? What you just posted could be scripted response while the player is OOS.
Yes, I have 2 M auto trader almost killed there.
They have exceptional shield MOD So they survive. But my S scout doesn't have the luck.

The problem is when AI enter the system after the warning, they won't flee. That is almost death sentence.

You could put a satellite around Tidebreak, every tide will kill some AI freights.

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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Galinet » Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:31

Upon further testing my Falcon Sentinel does abort its Explore command to flee to safety. So ship faction nor ship captain faction were the factors, nor the Explore vs Fly and Wait commands.

The required condition seems to be:
  • Player is out of sector
  • Ship is docked at Tidebreak
  • Once the tide is active order the ship to go explore Avarice I
  • Ship gets destroyed traveling from Tidebreak to the superhighway leading to Avarice I
My gut feeling is that the ship does not check the tide status before undocking, which leads to its destruction> Unless there's something special about traveling to the exploration point, such as not being able to do anything else (not threaded nor responding to events/messages). In that case I'd change that command to issue 1) Fly and Wait and 2) Explore. This would reuse the current Fly and Wait code which seems to work correctly.

It remains to be investigated if other movement commands behave similarly:
  • Fly and wait
  • Update trade orders
  • Collect drops
  • Attack targets in range
And whether configuring Repeat Orders while the ship is docked.

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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Rei Ayanami » Fri, 18. Mar 22, 21:35

Galinet wrote:
Fri, 18. Mar 22, 18:31
My gut feeling is that the ship does not check the tide status before undocking, which leads to its destruction>
I think the issue here is that, at least as far as I can tell, ships only get notified ONCE to flee, namely when the tide is imminent and the first radio message gets played.
After the initial warning it seems no further flee-commands are given, any ships arriving in the sector or undocking after the first warning go about their day, ignoring any further tide radio warnings.

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Re: Suggestion TIDES OF AVARICE : Timer?

Post by Galinet » Sat, 19. Mar 22, 00:48

My ship was already in the sector, but docked at a station. It got destroyed trying to reach the next Avarice sector, because I told it to move. If the pilot was in charge they probably would have remained docked until the tide had subsided.

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