Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

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exogenesis
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Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by exogenesis » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 22:02

Currently trying to lose some sector ownership(s) for role play reasons, but apparently
I can't have a 'shipyard' in a sector without that sector being assigned to me.

I can't see why, I mean isn't that the function of an Admin-Centre ?

Just building an lone non-functioning L-build module in an unclaimed sector gives the sector to me,
which doesn't seem right somehow (S/M-build modules don't do this)

Real question is, how do I remove sector ownership where I've got a shipyard ?

(could edit the save file, but not sure if it'll 'stick')

Jaskan
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Re: Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by Jaskan » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 22:43

+1

adeine
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Re: Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by adeine » Wed, 26. Jan 22, 06:27

The way to hack around it would be to deconstruct your build modules, then wait for someone to build an admin module.

You can then reconstruct your build modules as long as you are equal or below the number of admin modules.

I think build modules count because AI factions are bad at building functional defence stations, so having build modules count helps secure core sectors (since shipyards/wharves are sturdier).

Raptor34
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Re: Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by Raptor34 » Wed, 26. Jan 22, 06:32

adeine wrote:
Wed, 26. Jan 22, 06:27
I think build modules count because AI factions are bad at building functional defence stations, so having build modules count helps secure core sectors (since shipyards/wharves are sturdier).
I agree with this. But imo it might be best if AI have their own unique build modules? Or perhaps have variants, a more costly build/admin combo that factions also use and a slightly cheaper build only module that are player only.

exogenesis
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Re: Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by exogenesis » Wed, 26. Jan 22, 20:26

Guess I'll have a go at adeine's suggestion, sort of,
I'll 'teleport' (file edit) my shipyard away to an NPC-claimed sector,
then teleport an existing Argon Defence-Station in from another sector, that has more than one,
then teleport the shipyard back, see if that works.
Not 100% sure what will happen, with 5.0 beta change in ownership rules...

Alan Phipps
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Re: Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 26. Jan 22, 21:50

@ exogenesis: I would try all those just one step at a time and check after each step if you get the expected result. Doing too many things at once might not trigger any ownership change detection code sequence.
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exogenesis
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Re: Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by exogenesis » Thu, 27. Jan 22, 09:28

Yes, tried it that way, one change at a time & load & see what happenend.
Didn't work at any step though, the first step,
=moving the shipyard out of otherwise station-empty sector
didn't take ownership away from me :(
Then moving in an RHA defence station didn't confer ownership to them.

So I conclude that game 'events' have to be triggered normally in order for this to happen.

Haven't been able to figure out how/where sector-ownership is stored in save-file,
so can't yet do a more direct change...

Alan Phipps
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Re: Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by Alan Phipps » Thu, 27. Jan 22, 10:56

The first step is not meant to work. A sector does not change ownership until someone else solely claims it with no contenders. Hence it is likely to be step 2 that is not working using that method.

There can't even be some other faction admin module or dock hidden away in-sector (unless it is one of yours that you have overlooked!) that is preventing the transfer as otherwise they would normally have got the sector ownership on step 1 - unless more than one faction already have them in there and then it is working as designed.

After you removed your shipyard at step 1, did the sector show as 'contested'? Did it do so only after step 2, or not at all?
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Raptor34
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Re: Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by Raptor34 » Thu, 27. Jan 22, 11:01

Wait. I missed it but, only L-build modules do that? S/M don't?
What about XL?
I always thought they all do.

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Ketraar
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Re: Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by Ketraar » Thu, 27. Jan 22, 12:46

adeine wrote:
Wed, 26. Jan 22, 06:27
You can then reconstruct your build modules as long as you are equal or below the number of admin modules.
Please lets stop with the spread of this false information. The amount of modules has NO impact on who owns it. Ownership changes when only one faction has one claiming module in a sector. As mentioned, additional ones wont have any effect on the owner switch, but they have an impact on how long it takes, as anyone would have to destroy them all to get a owner change, so more admin modules help with holding by existing, not that they add weight.

As of 5.00 if sat 3 factions are contesting a sector and the original owner gets removed, the sector switches to ownerless instead of keeping the OG owner even though they might not have any stations. Often occurrence in Xenon sectors where player and an additional faction were contesting them.

MFG

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Raptor34
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Re: Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by Raptor34 » Thu, 27. Jan 22, 14:34

Ketraar wrote:
Thu, 27. Jan 22, 12:46
adeine wrote:
Wed, 26. Jan 22, 06:27
You can then reconstruct your build modules as long as you are equal or below the number of admin modules.
Please lets stop with the spread of this false information. The amount of modules has NO impact on who owns it. Ownership changes when only one faction has one claiming module in a sector. As mentioned, additional ones wont have any effect on the owner switch, but they have an impact on how long it takes, as anyone would have to destroy them all to get a owner change, so more admin modules help with holding by existing, not that they add weight.

As of 5.00 if sat 3 factions are contesting a sector and the original owner gets removed, the sector switches to ownerless instead of keeping the OG owner even though they might not have any stations. Often occurrence in Xenon sectors where player and an additional faction were contesting them.

MFG

Ketraar
Pity. I actually liked them keeping the OG owner. Very helpful in holding the line for factions without actually blowing things up.
What happens to the OG faction in such a case then? Would they start removing their stations since they no longer own it?
Can factions then leapfrog now or can I still block expansion?
Annoying change tbh.

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Re: Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 27. Jan 22, 16:26

Raptor34 wrote:
Thu, 27. Jan 22, 14:34
Can factions then leapfrog now or can I still block expansion?
When could they expand before?
* They could own a sector and have admin modules in it
* They could own a sector and have admin modules in it, but there is a claim by others
* They could have a claim on sector
* They could own a sector but have no admin modules in it

Could they expand from all four up to 4.20?


@exogenesis: Are the changes triggered by events or by periodic check of state? What are events? Destruction and completion of a module, perhaps. Then again, loading a save has no such event's. The ownership is either loaded from file, or computed from existing objects. But, ... vanquished factions did held ownership, so the data must be in the file.

[EDIT] is it the owner attribute in:

Code: Select all

<component class="sector" macro="cluster_102_sector001_macro" connection="cluster" code="MYN-814" owner="ownerless" knownto="player" known="1" read="0" id="[0x71fed]">
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exogenesis
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Re: Why does an L-build module confer sector ownership ?

Post by exogenesis » Thu, 27. Jan 22, 21:42

Thanks for that, I think I got confused with cluster/zone/tempzone, some with or without the 'owner' attrib.
Turns out that's all I needed to change (e.g. player->split/argon/terran) to get a sticking ownership change
while keeping the shipyards in place, so far (at least in v5.0b).

What I was really trying to test was why Xenon (at +30 rep) Is & Ks are fixated on patrolling just outside my shipyards,
wasn't sure if the attaction was the shipyards themselves, or the sector ownership (or both)
Seems very kind of them (friendly factions) to come & patrol my sectors (or shipyards) for me :roll:

@Alan, 'fraid I didn't see if it was contested or not,
but I think moving file-objects manually doesn't cut it
(for my purposes anyway)

@Raptor34, When I built an S/M module in un-owned sector it didn't have it's ownership given to me,
L module did, & I suspect XL would - don't know if that's a v5.0b change though.

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