Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

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grapedog
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by grapedog » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:05

More than once I've seen in this thread people say that you can't have a station that needs multiple raw resources.

That is totally incorrect. You can have a station that needs all 3 gases and all 3 minerals, and it operates totally fine with assigned miners.

budforceuk
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by budforceuk » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:09

grapedog wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:05
More than once I've seen in this thread people say that you can't have a station that needs multiple raw resources.

That is totally incorrect. You can have a station that needs all 3 gases and all 3 minerals, and it operates totally fine with assigned miners.
Yes 100% confirm.

Raptor34
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by Raptor34 » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:18

grapedog wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:05
More than once I've seen in this thread people say that you can't have a station that needs multiple raw resources.

That is totally incorrect. You can have a station that needs all 3 gases and all 3 minerals, and it operates totally fine with assigned miners.
Did they fix the issue where they fly around with a full cargo bay of stuff you don't need and wouldn't unload regardless? If not then it's not totally fine.

GCU Grey Area
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by GCU Grey Area » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:38

Raptor34 wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:18
Did they fix the issue where they fly around with a full cargo bay of stuff you don't need and wouldn't unload regardless?
Does seem to have been fixed. Started a new game recently & ended up building my usual HQ mega-complex (can't help myself, know it's horrendously inefficient, just find it irresistible from an aesthetic/architectural perspective). Needs multiple minerals & gases. So far no issues with miners being unable to offload cargo & henceforth being unable to mine a full cargo of something else.

GReaper
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by GReaper » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 12:12

rene6740 wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 09:22
I did build a whole player economy with 250ish stations in my 3.3 game. I chose the frf sectors as my base of operation and built stations limited to 5 production module each, single product and build them across those sectors.

For distribution I chose to exclusively use distribute ware traders. The point of distribute wares trader was, to move wares more efficiently using less ships. In reality this isn’t that much better than just assigning ships to station and have additional distribute ware traders for high volume products. The problem I encountered with distribute wares was that this command prefers nearest station that needs the ware it trades. So it will always prefer to sell 10 Hull parts to the station in the same sector as opposed to selling the full cargo hold to a station that’s starving in the neighboring sector. I ended up with stations receiving minimal amounts of wares from trades, while other starved and stopped production. I could have solved it by just adding more traders but that was besides the point. So in my opinion best way is to have station traders and in addition add some distribute wares/autotraders for specific wares.

Selling overhead to npc should be possible, if you adjust your prices accordingly. You‘ll basically want a trade station that buys at 1cr below all your other stations. You can then use repeat order to either sell directly from trade station to npc or build to a second trade station and assign traders to second station for selling.
Thank you very much for your feedback, @rene6740. By now I'll stick with station traders and a few (maybe S type) traders with distribute wares!
grapedog wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:05
More than once I've seen in this thread people say that you can't have a station that needs multiple raw resources.

That is totally incorrect. You can have a station that needs all 3 gases and all 3 minerals, and it operates totally fine with assigned miners.
I agree with you, @grapedog. In fact, for any person who reads this post, I would like to remark that I'm migrating from my PHQ megacomplex because a) lag issues (main problem), b) docking problems and c) it became "too big" for me. BUT I've been playing for years with this megacomplex which used all raw resources and hadn't much problems. It was running fine an producing a lot of wares with very few micromanagement.

Furthermore, I'd like to try new approaches like the small factories cluster and optimize the PHQ for other tasks like terraforming and keep it visually simple (personal preference).
Last edited by GReaper on Tue, 25. Jan 22, 12:19, edited 1 time in total.

TKz
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by TKz » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 12:14

Raptor34 wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:18
grapedog wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:05
More than once I've seen in this thread people say that you can't have a station that needs multiple raw resources.

That is totally incorrect. You can have a station that needs all 3 gases and all 3 minerals, and it operates totally fine with assigned miners.
Did they fix the issue where they fly around with a full cargo bay of stuff you don't need and wouldn't unload regardless? If not then it's not totally fine.
It was fixed in 4.1 or 4.2, I don't remember precisely.
But even before that you could have factories needing all raw resources, as long as you provided theses resources from intermediate depots each managing a single raw resource.

Raptor34
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by Raptor34 » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 12:21

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:38
Raptor34 wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:18
Did they fix the issue where they fly around with a full cargo bay of stuff you don't need and wouldn't unload regardless?
Does seem to have been fixed. Started a new game recently & ended up building my usual HQ mega-complex (can't help myself, know it's horrendously inefficient, just find it irresistible from an aesthetic/architectural perspective). Needs multiple minerals & gases. So far no issues with miners being unable to offload cargo & henceforth being unable to mine a full cargo of something else.
Thanks. That's interesting, although more for those all-in-one Terran fabs where splitting is not an option.
TKz wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 12:14
Raptor34 wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:18
grapedog wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:05
More than once I've seen in this thread people say that you can't have a station that needs multiple raw resources.

That is totally incorrect. You can have a station that needs all 3 gases and all 3 minerals, and it operates totally fine with assigned miners.
Did they fix the issue where they fly around with a full cargo bay of stuff you don't need and wouldn't unload regardless? If not then it's not totally fine.
It was fixed in 4.1 or 4.2, I don't remember precisely.
But even before that you could have factories needing all raw resources, as long as you provided theses resources from intermediate depots each managing a single raw resource.
Fairly recent then. But needing intermediate depots is not something I'll consider working fine.
I like the concept of supply depots of course, but needing them without any in game guide to it is pretty bad.

TKz
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by TKz » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 12:53

Raptor34 wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 12:21
Fairly recent then. But needing intermediate depots is not something I'll consider working fine.
I like the concept of supply depots of course, but needing them without any in game guide to it is pretty bad.
You're right, actually it took me a few hours to make them work properly, with a lot of tries and errors ...
It should at least be documented officially somewhere if they are needed.

SirConnery
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by SirConnery » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 13:46

grapedog wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 10:05
More than once I've seen in this thread people say that you can't have a station that needs multiple raw resources.

That is totally incorrect. You can have a station that needs all 3 gases and all 3 minerals, and it operates totally fine with assigned miners.
In 4.0 I had a station that needed 2 gases and 2 minerals and it was a mess. They just kept going for 1 gas or mineral until it was nearly full and then switching to mine the other resource that ran out an hour ago.

If they fixed that for 4.2 or 5.0 then alright. But it was not working as intended in 4.0 .

magitsu
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by magitsu » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 19:04

I'm not sure how fast they get rid of the ware that exceeds the max the station is willing to store, but at least if you force it manually they will indeed turn to another enabled trade good after that.
Like if ice is maxed and ore is enabled, then they will turn to ore. Before this they might prefer one of the raw resources more, but I haven't seen them completely neglect the others.
So it might actually be fixed completely, but at least partially. You can operate multi-gas or multi-mine complex in 4.2 with mining job.

Panos
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by Panos » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 20:56

GReaper wrote:
Sat, 22. Jan 22, 21:07
- If I have many factories, is there any easy way for me to assign them traders so they get needed resources from my factories and distribute produced ones?
Just set buy orders on your buying station at max price (not automated) with the X amount you want and restrict trade to your own faction.
Set the price manually on your production station to be lower than the max buying price and restrict trade to your own faction.

Assign traders. Best method is to assign them to the buying station and as many courriers (S ships) as possible with few M and if any L freighters.
GReaper wrote:
Sat, 22. Jan 22, 21:07
- Is there any way to make a factory to sell any quantity of items to my own stations but only sell those who exceed a concrete threshold to other factions? I mean: I know I can restrict the station through trading rules and I can also manually set a limit to start selling, but I don't know if theres any way to sell only to my properties below one given threshold.
This is easily done by manually pricing.
Set the buying station at max price and rule to buy from your own stations.

Set the selling price on automatic at the production station, assign the traders to the selling station not the buying station. (some of them not all of them).
The production station it will keep feeding your own station (selling at max price) or NPC stations having maximum price. When your station is full and doesn't accept more orders, the production/selling station will start selling at the lower prices of the NPC stations.
GReaper wrote:
Sat, 22. Jan 22, 21:07
- Last, do you use some kind of "storage & distribution" stations or something like that? In that case, how/why are you using them?
Usually I set up warehouses if I want to move a lot of goods further than 4 sectors (due to manager skill limits) and do not want to bother with the micromanagment of repeat orders. Saying that if I have a big distribution hub, using repeat orders with L trucks to feed it resources is preferable.

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Re: Your opinion: from megacomplex to small factories

Post by KextV8 » Wed, 26. Jan 22, 04:55

GReaper wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 07:50


I designed stations to have full workforce. Despite it's true that they'll together will produce a much wares, isn't workforce worth it? I mean: if I produce enough food & med, shouldn't Isn't it worth it to full workforce? Or maybe is better to only full workforce in stations which produce the most expensive goods and a waste in tier 1-2 factories?
I dunno its just a hassle and require more buildings and storage and turrets that lowers FPS when my factory already make more components than I need to build my own ships faster than they get destroyed. The only place I have workforce is at my shipyard factory so I can make crew. Everywhere else just empty.

GReaper
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Re: Your opinion: from megacomplex to small factories

Post by GReaper » Wed, 26. Jan 22, 09:23

KextV8 wrote:
Wed, 26. Jan 22, 04:55
GReaper wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 07:50


I designed stations to have full workforce. Despite it's true that they'll together will produce a much wares, isn't workforce worth it? I mean: if I produce enough food & med, shouldn't Isn't it worth it to full workforce? Or maybe is better to only full workforce in stations which produce the most expensive goods and a waste in tier 1-2 factories?
I dunno its just a hassle and require more buildings and storage and turrets that lowers FPS when my factory already make more components than I need to build my own ships faster than they get destroyed. The only place I have workforce is at my shipyard factory so I can make crew. Everywhere else just empty.
This is one of my concerns right now. Should I use workforce in all stations or maybe some of them (like the wharf, of course)? I still haven't decided anything. I'll wait for all factories to be fully populated and then see if it's really worth in all of them. At a first glance, if you can produce your own food/meds it seems worth it. But, what if I sell those food/meds instead using in the workforce? (reflection)

Raevyan
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by Raevyan » Wed, 26. Jan 22, 10:31

If you build small stations, you mostly gonna need only one M/L habitat and no extra storage. A single L container storage is more than enough for products and resources.
I had workforce on all of my 250is stations.

SirConnery
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by SirConnery » Wed, 26. Jan 22, 16:43

I don't see a reason to not use Workforce. If you just place your food producing factory/factories next to your complex of smaller stations you don't even need any micromanagement. Just place traders on the food factory and you're set, and some decent profits from AI as well since food and meds will always sell.

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Re: Your opinion: from megacomplex to small factories

Post by grapedog » Thu, 27. Jan 22, 07:32

GReaper wrote:
Wed, 26. Jan 22, 09:23
KextV8 wrote:
Wed, 26. Jan 22, 04:55
GReaper wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 07:50


I designed stations to have full workforce. Despite it's true that they'll together will produce a much wares, isn't workforce worth it? I mean: if I produce enough food & med, shouldn't Isn't it worth it to full workforce? Or maybe is better to only full workforce in stations which produce the most expensive goods and a waste in tier 1-2 factories?
I dunno its just a hassle and require more buildings and storage and turrets that lowers FPS when my factory already make more components than I need to build my own ships faster than they get destroyed. The only place I have workforce is at my shipyard factory so I can make crew. Everywhere else just empty.
This is one of my concerns right now. Should I use workforce in all stations or maybe some of them (like the wharf, of course)? I still haven't decided anything. I'll wait for all factories to be fully populated and then see if it's really worth in all of them. At a first glance, if you can produce your own food/meds it seems worth it. But, what if I sell those food/meds instead using in the workforce? (reflection)
Everyone is different, but I usually DO NOT build a workforce if a station has less 1k workers. If a station has more than 1k workers needed, it will most likely get a workforce as well.

GReaper
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by GReaper » Thu, 27. Jan 22, 08:41

Once again, thank you very much everyone for your feedback! :)

I would like to give you an update about how the migration is going and also a small summary for someone who reads this thread:

- I have some mining stations in "outer" and yield rich sectors (Getsu Fune, The Void, etc.) with L miners.

- I have build my factories cluster in Black Hole Sun IV (I know, strange decision, but I was accostumed to it after terraforming :P )

- I have built small factories which only produce 1 ware and some of them 2 wares depending on needed resources (food & med, field coils & shield components, etc.) and grouped them by tiers (tier 2, tier 3 very close together, etc.).

- I also built a wharf (XL, L, M) close to the tier 5 wares factories.

- I have one mining storage station in BHS IV to locally distribute raw resources. It has manually set orders to buy all raw resources. Then some Alligator freighters (gas and mineral miners) setup with repeat orders transport resources from mining stations to this storage one. Then I assigned some miners as traders to this storage station so they can distribute the wares. This model makes my life easier.

- I have trade rules in all stations to only buy and sell wares from/to my own properties.

- I have assigned very basic managers to all stations (I'll level up later with seminars) so they are like 0-1 stars.

- I haven't modified factories prices, storage rules, etc.

- I have assigned every factory about 5 M traders with "Trade for commander" task.

- I have assigned about 10 S traders to "Food and medical supplies" factories (which work really well to distribute them)

- All stations have full workforce. Almost all of them need about 1K workforce and the bigger ones about 4-5K. Wharf also has habitats for crew. I found that, If I produce food and meds, workforce is worth (mainly in high tier goods).


With this setup everything is running fine by now. Resources are being distributed correctly and it seems there are no shortages. Also, it's easier for me to manage and control every station (needed traders, resources, storage, etc.).

Maybe this model isn't the best option for new games (in that case maybe I start with a megacomplex again) but maybe better for later or endgame.

SirConnery
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Re: Help: migrating from megacomplex to small factories

Post by SirConnery » Fri, 28. Jan 22, 01:55

For new games you kind of have to start with a medium sized complex to save credits. After that though I prefer small factories since it's less micromanagement and you can ramp up production way faster if needed since you can build new buildings simultaneously in each different factory.

I think being able to quickly ramp up production is the biggest benefit to small factories. With a large complex you're waiting an hour for a single Claytronics building while you could be building 10 buildings simultaneously.

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