Ship mod update, 5.0 beta request, an easy win

[Tya]

The request is simple. Remove the ship mod RNG. Have every mod always apply the max bonus. Increase the costs as you see fit to keep it balanced.

They're fun. They're really fun. They add a level of customization that is usually reserved for RPGs. It lets you power up your favorite ships in unique ways. It essentially fills in the gaps left by having fewer ships than previous titles. It lets my ship feel like it's really mine.

But they have a problem. Here is my usual "mod applying" session

• Put it off for hours. Collect hundreds of mod parts. Dock all my ships.
• Go make a coffee.
• Start the process at the top. Hit "reassemble" until my eyes glaze over. Get a good roll, accidentally reassemble because I'm basically on autopilot.
• Go make another coffee. Half way done.
• Repeat.

This can take hours. It's genuinely offputting, and a black mark on a system that overall is just straight up satisfying.

[Axeface]

Ide be happy if the High Energy Catalyst requirement for green mods was reduced from 3 to 2, I feel like rare and exceptionals are fine because you tend to get everything back when disassembling except the credits, but losing 2 HEC each time you roll a green mod is frankly too grindy, I end jup doing nothing but searching for HEC.
And it would be nice if it were possible to roll the same stats on all weapons at once, so your guns dont end up not synchronised with eachother.

[chew-ie]

RNG is nice for RPGs. Unless X turns into a RPG we have no need for this artificial time wasting mechanics. The X game offers enough things to do .

Increasing credit costs (scaling by ship class) would be nice - much better then forcing save scumming. (No, I don't waste 10 millions to get a 10% shield increase. But I'd pay 5 million for the full 70%.)

[Alan Phipps]

I think something more like the current variable system could be more acceptable to some players if a few ease-of-use changes were made that could also reduce the urge to re-roll:

1. Reduce the range of values for the RNG result so that while effects can still be individual to the ship, they cannot be to the extent that a player would feel overly short-changed by even a lower value result and re-roll.

2. Remove any minus to positive ranges for characteristics. If a negative characteristic is intended to offset or balance over-powerful positive aspects then let it always be negative but with a reduced negative range as per 1 above.

3. Allow a single mod loadout to be applied to a complete group of like elements with the modding cost and resources multiplied per the number of elements involved. This partly happens for multiple engines and main shields, so why can it not apply to all alike weapons in a front battery, all alike turret weapons and element shields, etc. This will mean a main battery and role turrets having the same characteristics and the weapons therein not exhibiting different bullet speeds, engagement ranges or cooling, etc - and would greatly reduce rolling for mods.

4. Allow a loadout including ship mods to be saved and applied to others of the same ship type with the same surface elements, obviously at additional cost and resources per ship, with the ships still showing some individual variations as allowed under 1 to 3 above. This would also greatly reduce rolling for mods.

My thoughts anyway to reduce the modding grind but still retain some ship individuality.

[Maebius]

I strongly dislike RNG in everything.

Make it so. Please, respect our time.

Have the item cost up to 10x the assemble price (in money) to guarantee getting inside the top 90%-100% bracket, if you muuuust keep some RNG into it.

Different amount of secondary materials should anyway be needed per ship/module size.

[Pesanur]

I think something more like the current variable system could be more acceptable to some players if a few ease-of-use changes were made that could also reduce the urge to re-roll:

1. Reduce the range of values for the RNG result so that while effects can still be individual to the ship, they cannot be to the extent that a player would feel overly short-changed by even a lower value result and re-roll.

2. Remove any minus to positive ranges for characteristics. If a negative characteristic is intended to offset or balance over-powerful positive aspects then let it always be negative but with a reduced negative range as per 1 above.

3. Allow a single mod loadout to be applied to a complete group of like elements with the modding cost and resources multiplied per the number of elements involved. This partly happens for multiple engines and main shields, so why can it not apply to all alike weapons in a front battery, all alike turret weapons and element shields, etc. This will mean a main battery and role turrets having the same characteristics and the weapons therein not exhibiting different bullet speeds, engagement ranges or cooling, etc - and would greatly reduce rolling for mods.

4. Allow a loadout including ship mods to be saved and applied to others of the same ship type with the same surface elements, obviously at additional cost and resources per ship, with the ships still showing some individual variations as allowed under 1 to 3 above. This would also greatly reduce rolling for mods.

My thoughts anyway to reduce the modding grind but still retain some ship individuality.

I'm to be happy with only the 3.

[TKz]

Two other possibilities that would satisfy me :

• Give the possibility to chose between current mod roll and new roll (so if you don't have a better roll you just don't apply it).
• Apply new roll automatically but only if it's better than current one.

Both would achieve the same goal. The second one is simpler.

[Imperial Good]

Another option would be that "reroll" is replaced with "improve" where it rerolls all stats but only for the affixes that were previously rolled (disassemble to change those) and only takes the rolls that improved. This way "improve" only ever makes the mod better and so quickly your mods converge towards optimal, even after a few rolls. Each improve does consume some nominal parts (and cost money if not done at a player owned station). This would keep randomness but give players an ability to tame it. Not everyone likes gambling, especially when the rolls clearly have a biased probability distribution towards bad numbers.

[GageDragon]

If you do not mind modified there is a workshop mod titled equipment modifications redone that makes them max roll.

[Drexia]

RNG with modifications does nothing to make my gameplay experience better. I will therefore seek to remove it as much as I am able to. It would be preferrable if RNG in modifications was removed from the game, but if that cannot be done, then making them an optional thing would be nice. I'd like the choice to opt out of gameplay elements I do not enjoy.

[Nagittchi]

Agreed. It's stupid. Especially when you can just save and reload and get different results with no penalty.

I doubt they'll remove it though. Buuuuut if they do and you want to keep it like some "RPG", then why not an upgrade system for a ship that gets more expensive each time you increase it?

Unfortunately not backwards compatible though.

[Falcrack]

I don't like the rng system for mods because I like symmetry. I want all my weapons of the same type to be equal in stats. I can't accomplish this if one gun has a +16% rate of fire, and the other has a +10% rate of fire.

[flywlyx]

Agreed. It's stupid. Especially when you can just save and reload and get different results with no penalty.

I doubt they'll remove it though. Buuuuut if they do and you want to keep it like some "RPG", then why not an upgrade system for a ship that gets more expensive each time you increase it?

Unfortunately not backwards compatible though.

This is a good idea, you can keep improving it, but you have to pay more and more.
Or pay the same amount, but you get less and less improvement.

[abisha1980]

RNG is a bane of the gaming industry for ages they should remove it on anything

they should just make upgrades by steps, say you start with 2% and you can upgrade to max procent allowed.
it would makes more sense right you can also mod your car making it better (in theory) they do it with racing cars

so why should spaceships be anything special
all sub system should be moddable, and gives the player a special goal in the game for example a unique ship (the one of the kind)

[TKz]

RNG is a bane of the gaming industry for ages they should remove it on anything

No it's not.
Some game genres are and always were defined by RNG items (dungeon crawlers, A-RPGs, RPGs, hack and slash). Diablo without RNG is not Diablo ...

Another option would be that "reroll" is replaced with "improve" where it rerolls all stats but only for the affixes that were previously rolled (disassemble to change those) and only takes the rolls that improved. This way "improve" only ever makes the mod better and so quickly your mods converge towards optimal, even after a few rolls. Each improve does consume some nominal parts (and cost money if not done at a player owned station). This would keep randomness but give players an ability to tame it. Not everyone likes gambling, especially when the rolls clearly have a biased probability distribution towards bad numbers.

I like that. It keeps a progression system (you will improve your ship gradually during gameplay), but it won't be as frustrating as it is today.

[abisha1980]

RNG is a bane of the gaming industry for ages they should remove it on anything

No it's not.
Some game genres are and always were defined by RNG items (dungeon crawlers, A-RPGs, RPGs, hack and slash). Diablo without RNG is not Diablo ...

Another option would be that "reroll" is replaced with "improve" where it rerolls all stats but only for the affixes that were previously rolled (disassemble to change those) and only takes the rolls that improved. This way "improve" only ever makes the mod better and so quickly your mods converge towards optimal, even after a few rolls. Each improve does consume some nominal parts (and cost money if not done at a player owned station). This would keep randomness but give players an ability to tame it. Not everyone likes gambling, especially when the rolls clearly have a biased probability distribution towards bad numbers.

I like that. It keeps a progression system (you will improve your ship gradually during gameplay), but it won't be as frustrating as it is today.

not really the right topic to discuss other games RNG but even those games can be done better for example giving items also a substat bonus to upgrades (by collecting parts) etc.
RNG is just bad only place it belongs is in card games or gambling (alto they never really random in the first place)

[pref]

Imo the problem is not RNG but all the clicks needed and differing stats for the weapons on a single ship.

Being able to apply the same roll on all same type equipment on a ship would be great though. At least range and cooldown should be possible to sync between weapons.
Cooldown is especially problematic as you loose the advantage when you have to overheat some of the weapons to make use of it.

[Pares]

I was b*tching about this since release. The kind of RNG that is used in mod crafting has absolutely no place in a single player game. I would say it is the most annoying thing in the game for me. Hell, even Elite, which is actually an MMO where you cannot simple save and reload, has a lot better engineering system, where each iteration can only improve on the previous one.

Another option would be that "reroll" is replaced with "improve" where it rerolls all stats but only for the affixes that were previously rolled (disassemble to change those) and only takes the rolls that improved. This way "improve" only ever makes the mod better and so quickly your mods converge towards optimal, even after a few rolls. Each improve does consume some nominal parts (and cost money if not done at a player owned station). This would keep randomness but give players an ability to tame it. Not everyone likes gambling, especially when the rolls clearly have a biased probability distribution towards bad numbers.

THIS. This a hundred billion times. Just make each iteration improve on the previous one. This would also give you the chance to have multiple upgraded weapons with exactly the same stats.

[Raptor34]

My only problem with it is the number of clicks.
Firstly I want a simple reroll button. So I don't have to remove, move my cursor and then reinstall.
Second, I don't care if all the numbers are random, but let me do all my weapons/shields at the same time. With a checkbox or something and then I only reroll the ones I want.
Third, should as well tighten up the shield mod range, since rerolling that is free anyway.

Perhaps we should also be allowed to do targeted modding, but with the costs calculated from the odds. Like if for a 1-100% range you'll on average get a 100% once every hundred rerolls, then let us pay the cost directly instead of mashing the button. And yes, that means paying for all those hundred rerolls, but with only one click this time.
That way you can either play the roulette for a lower cost or pay the lump sum for the guarantee.

[GCU Grey Area]

Personally very much like the mod system myself, but then I never strive to get the absolute best of everything, or even have comparable stats on all guns. Indeed sometimes find it useful to have deliberately mismatched guns. For example, one gun optimised for long range, while an identical gun (with the same mod) next to it has a much faster cooldown rate. Often do this with my personal destroyer so I've got one main battery that's really good for long range sniping, while the other's more of a general purpose gun.

Certainly do not want to have to pay for really expensive mods just to get max effects. For the overwhelming majority of my modded ships (freighters, miners, fighters, etc) they get precisely one roll per mod. They're usually fitted with basic greens where I'm fine with the minimum effect & anything above that is just gravy. Reaver engines on my freighters is a good example. +35% travel mode speed is exceptionally useful & dirt cheap for only 50k & a handful of resources. +45% is obviously better but in no way essential, so would certainly be against the modding system being changed so I'm forced to pay millions to get that extra 10% that I really don't want or need.

My only problem with it is the number of clicks.
Firstly I want a simple reroll button. So I don't have to remove, move my cursor and then reinstall.

This is already the case. No need to dismantle first, unless changing to a different mod (e.g. upgrading from blue to purple mod). Apart from that, if you just want different stats, you can just keep hitting the reassemble button as many time as you want to/can afford.

Perhaps we should also be allowed to do targeted modding, but with the costs calculated from the odds. Like if for a 1-100% range you'll on average get a 100% once every hundred rerolls, then let us pay the cost directly instead of mashing the button. And yes, that means paying for all those hundred rerolls, but with only one click this time.
That way you can either play the roulette for a lower cost or pay the lump sum for the guarantee.

Like this idea best of everything in the thread so far. Keep existing mod system as it is, but add a 'throw money at the problem' button which guarantees a perfect mod but costs an absolute fortune & eats a mountain of resources for the convenience.