The new Paranid ships and the tug boat are amazing!

[Axeface]

I wonder if that indicates a desire to finally rebalance the ships to be less identical. People have been asking for that since launch.

I hope so, and it looks like it might. The announcement says "you will get a first taste of the latest developments and our future vision for the game."
Dev responses about the Zeus capacity mention the intent to make it be fast and able to react fast, I would assume that means the intent will be different for other race carriers (hope teladi next ).

I must say that looking at new and old ships next to eachother I finally realized how butt ugly the old Paranid models are.

I was thinking that Teladi ships are the ugliest, but now, old Paranid ships do seems worse.

Mhmm they were always the worst yes, the quality was totally different to most of the rest of the games ships. Teladi quality is more inline with the rest of the game, even if some might see the designs as a bit boring.

[Holybell]

... X3 Paranit TL. And no more comment.

[NightmareNight91]

I like that they atleast didnt remove the ability to buy the old models and the blueprints, makes my old paranid ships collectibles lol, also i happen to like the old selene and zues better so its nice to have the option to use them.

[Athraku]

With the old model still available in game it really highlights how much better the new ones really look. Great job

Not sure if there's a plan on removing them in the future as they will only confuse anyone who comes into the game in the future by keep old assets in the game not to mention if there are future updates in ship design for other races it would start to clutter up the building menus if this trend continues.

[gorgofdoom]

A Zeus E with 24 torpedo pulsars and a complement of 12 ospreys (x17 drones) makes for a fighter complement of 228 S ships.

The pulsars provide a serious punch for L/XL/S threats while the osprey's + drones can easily handle any S/M threats.

If the pulsars all carry heavy torps that's 24x26x (17,246mj) = 10,761,504 MJ of damage potential in just heavy torpedoes.

If we want to look at ospreys as cluster missile carriers they can each hold 104 cluster missiles at 12,141 mj of damage each. A total addition of 15,151,958MJ of damage.

Moving a whole fleet that can deal 26 million megajoules of damage (while also providing overwhelming fighter swarms) at 5000+m/s is priceless.

[Ragnos28]

A Zeus E with 24 torpedo pulsars and a complement of 12 ospreys (x17 drones) makes for a fighter complement of 228 S ships.

The pulsars provide a serious punch for L/XL/S threats while the osprey's + drones can easily handle any S/M threats.

If the pulsars all carry heavy torps that's 24x26x (17,246mj) = 10,761,504 MJ of damage potential in just heavy torpedoes.

If we want to look at ospreys as cluster missile carriers they can each hold 104 cluster missiles at 12,141 mj of damage each. A total addition of 15,151,958MJ of damage.

Moving a whole fleet that can deal 26 million megajoules of damage (while also providing overwhelming fighter swarms) at 5000+m/s is priceless.

Did you ever w8 for any frigate to launch drones from just one launching pad? How much time did it took to launch all? How many hits a swarm of xenon M and P can deliver to a M ship that tries to launch drones?
Imo, this has the same strategic value as waiting for a Syn to launch 40 Gladius, good luck with that.

Edit: also wait for the Zeus to launch their 12 Ospreys to see how long that will take.

[13913408324]

You sure？！ I feel the quality of the models in DLC2 and 5.0 is not as good as that in DLC1（Split Vendetta），It seems that their number of polygons is not enough

[linolafett]

You sure？！ I feel the quality of the models in DLC2 and 5.0 is not as good as that in DLC1（Split Vendetta），It seems that their number of polygons is not enough

Then wait for the scrap monsters in the pirate dlc, your polygon desire will be pleased.

The terran and paranid designs are smooth, devoid of "greeble". Thats their design language.
The split (and upcoming pirate ships) follow the "make all and everything look noisy" approach.

People like different things, therefore we have both of these styles in the game .

[Bozz11]

You guys remaking the L traders.... That was unexpected, makes me want to make a full paranid game now, they look gorgeous, thank you for making this and thank you to those who designed the new ships ! I appreciate it a lot !

[Raptor34]

You sure？！ I feel the quality of the models in DLC2 and 5.0 is not as good as that in DLC1（Split Vendetta），It seems that their number of polygons is not enough

Then wait for the scrap monsters in the pirate dlc, your polygon desire will be pleased.

The terran and paranid designs are smooth, devoid of "greeble". Thats their design language.
The split (and upcoming pirate ships) follow the "make all and everything look noisy" approach.

People like different things, therefore we have both of these styles in the game .

+1 for less greebles.

[gorgofdoom]

A Zeus E with 24 torpedo pulsars and a complement of 12 ospreys (x17 drones) makes for a fighter complement of 228 S ships.

The pulsars provide a serious punch for L/XL/S threats while the osprey's + drones can easily handle any S/M threats.

If the pulsars all carry heavy torps that's 24x26x (17,246mj) = 10,761,504 MJ of damage potential in just heavy torpedoes.

If we want to look at ospreys as cluster missile carriers they can each hold 104 cluster missiles at 12,141 mj of damage each. A total addition of 15,151,958MJ of damage.

Moving a whole fleet that can deal 26 million megajoules of damage (while also providing overwhelming fighter swarms) at 5000+m/s is priceless.

Did you ever w8 for any frigate to launch drones from just one launching pad? How much time did it took to launch all? How many hits a swarm of xenon M and P can deliver to a M ship that tries to launch drones?
Imo, this has the same strategic value as waiting for a Syn to launch 40 Gladius, good luck with that.

Edit: also wait for the Zeus to launch their 12 Ospreys to see how long that will take.

As I understand: Drone launch/recover times aren't important considering OOS combat as they are calculated without being launched.

In sector: Launching Osprey's takes about 30 seconds per docking cycle. Zeus E can hold 8 in internal storage & has four pads. so we're looking at about a minute & thirty seconds. An osprey takes about 4 minutes and 30 seconds to launch 15 defense drones. (about 18 seconds per cycle)

The syn has two docking pads and moves at a max travel speed that is 1/2 that of the zeus E. The syn would take 10 minutes to launch its complement of 40 gladius at 15 seconds per launch.

So even at 7 minutes we're looking at 2/3 the launching times compared to the syn. But with far greater numbers and also way higher damage. (until the missiles run out anyway)

[Pesanur]

Guys, you are forgetting one of the new ship of the vanilla 5.0, the Prometheus, an pirate assault transport operated by the Dukes. Is fast, have good manoeuvrability, and have three main guns and three turrets.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2748416506

[mr.WHO]

Guys, you are forgetting one of the new ship of the vanilla 5.0, the Prometheus, an pirate assault transport operated by the Dukes. Is fast, have good manoeuvrability, and have three main guns and three turrets.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2748416506

Trinity is strong in this one - 3 turrets and 3 guns!

[Ragnos28]

As I understand: Drone launch/recover times aren't important considering OOS combat as they are calculated without being launched.

In sector: Launching Osprey's takes about 30 seconds per docking cycle. Zeus E can hold 8 in internal storage & has four pads. so we're looking at about a minute & thirty seconds. An osprey takes about 4 minutes and 30 seconds to launch 15 defense drones. (about 18 seconds per cycle)

The syn has two docking pads and moves at a max travel speed that is 1/2 that of the zeus E. The syn would take 10 minutes to launch its complement of 40 gladius at 15 seconds per launch.

So even at 7 minutes we're looking at 2/3 the launching times compared to the syn. But with far greater numbers and also way higher damage. (until the missiles run out anyway)

Most of my combat is done IS, I did not paid 1.500 $ for a rig capable of playing X4 to watch some green dots doing battle with some red dots.

In anticipation of the Zeus E and its fighters capacity of 16 fighters (23 if landing pads are all occupied), I decided to test the old version of the Zeus, with Ares, 20 blast mortars + 20 bolt, in a combat scenario.
This is the result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JMqy9u45jQ

Conclusion: the fighter capacity of the Zeus E of 16 fighters, will not be suficient, either for intercept or anti-capital role. I don't think I will use this ship.

True, I did not test M ships in this scenario (I used them to provide aditional turrets for the carrier), but if you think that the swarm of xenon S/M ships will just stay at a distance and pasive, in order to alow you to launch your Ospreys, one by one, and those in turn to launch drones, also one by one...let's say that I'm not optimistic about a positive outcome of such combat scenario.

[A5PECT]

As I understand: Drone launch/recover times aren't important considering OOS combat as they are calculated without being launched.

Launch and docking time is a factor OOS, just less significant due to omitted collision checks and simplified pathfinding. Besides, that point only makes me argue that IS launching and docking times should be more accurately reflected in OOS calculations.

Fighter deployment and retrieval efficiency is a valid way to differentiate and balance carriers, and Egosoft seems to have taken this tack in their design of the Zeus E: increased performance of the carrier itself at the cost of fighter capacity. I really, really hope they have plans to rework the other carriers in the game in similar ways, to create more variation between ships and factions.

[flywlyx]

Conclusion: the fighter capacity of the Zeus E of 16 fighters, will not be suficient, either for intercept or anti-capital role. I don't think I will use this ship.

True, I did not test M ships in this scenario (I used them to provide aditional turrets for the carrier), but if you think that the swarm of xenon S/M ships will just stay at a distance and pasive, in order to alow you to launch your Ospreys, one by one, and those in turn to launch drones, also one by one...let's say that I'm not optimistic about a positive outcome of such combat scenario.

PAR carrier fleet only has 10 S fighters, so this is not a problem for AI at all.
Players have different game styles and skill levels, the new Paranid ships are more like skirmishers or light cavalries which request a higher-level understanding of strategy and tactics.
You have to put them on the right battlefield at the right time.

Zeus E is not strong enough to clean out all the fighters in a single battle, and this should never be a skirmisher's job.
Just like nobody is going to request a scout having enough firepower to fight against a heavy fighter, Zeus E has 8M+16M which is way more than enough to counter the biggest Xenon fighter fleet(which is 4M+12S), and its speed, even without mod, is 3 times faster than Xenon P. Which gives it a huge advantage in picking the battle in its favor.
It is a perfect AA carrier for a rapid response fleet and I finally could change my AA Rattlesnakes with an AA carrier.

[Ragnos28]

Conclusion: the fighter capacity of the Zeus E of 16 fighters, will not be suficient, either for intercept or anti-capital role. I don't think I will use this ship.

True, I did not test M ships in this scenario (I used them to provide aditional turrets for the carrier), but if you think that the swarm of xenon S/M ships will just stay at a distance and pasive, in order to alow you to launch your Ospreys, one by one, and those in turn to launch drones, also one by one...let's say that I'm not optimistic about a positive outcome of such combat scenario.

PAR carrier fleet only has 10 S fighters, so this is not a problem for AI at all.
Players have different game styles and skill levels, the new Paranid ships are more like skirmishers or light cavalries which request a higher-level understanding of strategy and tactics.
You have to put them on the right battlefield at the right time.

Zeus E is not strong enough to clean out all the fighters in a single battle, and this should never be a skirmisher's job.
Just like nobody is going to say a scout doesn't have enough firepower to fight against a heavy fighter, Zeus E has 8M+16M which is way more than enough to counter the biggest Xenon fighter fleet(which is 4M+12S), and its speed, even without mod, is 3 times faster than Xenon P. Which gives it a huge advantage in picking the battle in its favor.
It is a perfect AA carrier for a rapid response fleet and I finally could change my AA Rattlesnakes with a AA carrier.

The old Zeus cand do all the things you mention: AA carrier, fast response fleet, skirmish or light cavalry role, etc, with the added benefit of being cheaper and having double the fighter capacity of the Zeus E. And in regard to travel speed, you yourself said that the difference is negligible.
So, in the end, you get an worse Zeus, with an increased price tag? Not only that, but in order to acomplish what you could with the old Zeus, now you will need 2 Zeus E?

[flywlyx]

The old Zeus cand do all the things you mention: AA carrier, fast response fleet, skirmish or light cavalry role, etc, with the added benefit of being cheaper and having double the fighter capacity of the Zeus E. And in regard to travel speed, you yourself said that the difference is negligible.
So, in the end, you get an worse Zeus, with an increased price tag? Not only that, but in order to acomplish what you could with the old Zeus, now you will need 2 Zeus E?

Double fighter capacity is useless, a fast response fleet doesn't have the time to collect all those righters.
And you clearly misunderstand what I mean about the speed, I would suggest you go back to read again.
I have no clue why you think 30% faster is negligible, and you only pay 10% more credit.
From any aspect, it is not a bad deal at all. And you still have the old Zeus anyway.

[Ragnos28]

Double fighter capacity is useless, a fast response fleet doesn't have the time to collect all those righters.

This, right here, proves you don't understand the concept of carriers.
You see...a carrier is nothing fancy...at its core, is a platform equipped with full-length flight decks and facilities for carrying, arming, deploying, and recovering fighters, better that any other ship type (aux ships, for example).
For a carrier, the fighters on board serve the same role as turetts, fewer fighters on board = fewer "turetts". A carrier combat effectiveness is given by the number of fighters it can deploy against targets. Reduce the number of fighters a carrier can carry and you will have a giant paperweight that you can mount some turetts on...a fast paperweight, but a paperweight nonetheless.
I know you envision a fast response fleet, as one performing "races" on 4-5 sectors distance, to diferent locations, to guard unfinished defence stations, being build in the same time (why!?)..and things like that...but..given the fact that the xenon, at least in my game, "force" the gate blocade, with 1 I + 3 K's + S/M ships...hmm, I don't really see how a fast response fleet can help me

Really, I would apreciate if you can give me an example of a fast response fleet proposed composition, to see if I can find any use for it.

And you clearly misunderstand what I mean about the speed, I would suggest you go back to read again.
I have no clue why you think 30% faster is negligible, and you only pay 10% more credit.

Ok....remember this?
"Zeus E and Zeus V don't have enough speed differences to be noticed in a short-range race, the current game can't perform long-range races, they frequently get stuck in the middle of the flight.
I would say some difference will be shown in 7/8 sectors."

And you still have the old Zeus anyway.

Yes, the better paranid carrier is still available

[GCU Grey Area]

And you still have the old Zeus anyway.

Wonderful. So the devs go to all time, trouble & expense of creating a new Paranid carrier (specifically because the old one was so hideous few people were using it) & your recommendation is that people should just ignore the new one & start using the old one they didn't like in the first place?