RL Asgard vs Raptor

[Ragnos28]

Hello everyone,

For anyone interested to see, real life, Asgard vs Raptor, I've found this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FDZ4Q6op98

PS: I know you can't see the "Raptor" but is there

[Alan Phipps]

The pick up mid-battle of the ejected pilot by the Raptor's Tuatara was a nice touch. I'm just amazed that no turrets on the Asgard shot at it.

[Ragnos28]

The pick up mid-battle of the ejected pilot by the Raptor's Tuatara was a nice touch. I'm just amazed that no turrets on the Asgard shot at it.

You know, I might be mistaken, but in one of my X4 engagements, I think I saw a green escape pod, was that one of my pilots that I could have recover?
There is an idea for a mechanic, rescue ships, a message...your pilot has been recover, reasign to...I would certainly do that for some of my fighter squadrons pilots that have achieve 3 stars, the "natural" way, w/o seminars.

As for the rescue ship in the clip not being shot at, I think is safe to assume that the crew was concern with the other plaines that were blasting them, that to achieve that 1 kill.

[Alan Phipps]

More likely to be one of your owned ships' autonomous (ie unmanned) distress pods off to report the battle. They do seem to pop out rather easily, even when your assets are winning the battle and none are in much real danger of loss. They just fly off towards a safe station somewhere and you don't have to worry about rescuing them (they are just machines). They do get attacked and sometimes destroyed by enemies or by crossfire although it doesn't seem to affect anything you are doing.

Another possibility is that it was a boarding or crew transfer pod left over after it had done its job. They do disappear eventually, and I think that they don't always appear on the map after use even when you can still see them yourself as owned pods.

[GCU Grey Area]

Prefer a Bismark approach myself - wave of bombers goes in first to immobilise the target, then a fleet of destroyers rolls up to finish the job. Means I don't need so many bombers, because they're not trying to destroy the entire ship all by themselves. Simplifies the logistics of bomber resupply immensely & also means I can use one of the smaller carriers. Really cannot abide the slow response time of Raptor-based fighters for in-sector work, prefer to use Colossus etc instead.

[Ragnos28]

More likely to be one of your owned ships' autonomous (ie unmanned) distress pods off to report the battle. They do seem to pop out rather easily, even when your assets are winning the battle and none are in much real danger of loss. They just fly off towards a safe station somewhere and you don't have to worry about rescuing them (they are just machines). They do get attacked and sometimes destroyed by enemies or by crossfire although it doesn't seem to affect anything you are doing.

Another possibility is that it was a boarding or crew transfer pod left over after it had done its job. They do disappear eventually, and I think that they don't always appear on the map after use even when you can still see them yourself as owned pods.

Well...that's disappointing. But, I guess is for the best that our own pilots don't bail, would be just another hastle, retrieve pilots, repossess abandoned ships

[Ragnos28]

Prefer a Bismark approach myself - wave of bombers goes in first to immobilise the target, then a fleet of destroyers rolls up to finish the job. Means I don't need so many bombers, because they're not trying to destroy the entire ship all by themselves. Simplifies the logistics of bomber resupply immensely & also means I can use one of the smaller carriers. Really cannot abide the slow response time of Raptor-based fighters for in-sector work, prefer to use Colossus etc instead.

Hey, I like Collosus also But I don't think a Collosus would perform well in this combat scenario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccNBsTc8hzo

[GCU Grey Area]

Hey, I like Collosus also But I don't think a Collosus would perform well in this combat scenario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccNBsTc8hzo

Maybe not, but then the way I play it doesn't need to. There's always something on the order of 48 S fighters & 5-10 destroyers in between the command carrier & enemy forces. If I don't think that'll be enough there'll be multiple such fleets operating in the sector. All I need my carriers to do is lurk at the back next to the auxiliaries & send out Attack wings of bombers to assist the destroyers & Interceptor fighters to watch everyone's back. The turrets on my carriers almost never fire, indeed more often than not the L turret is specifically configured not to. Last couple of games came to the realisation that if it's almost never going to shoot at anything I might find it more useful as an offline missile turret. Just there to boost the carrier's reserve missile supply, in case it ever runs out of resources to make missiles & all of it's M storage freighters are empty too. That's never actually happened so far, & frankly would be quite fiddly to have to manually transfer missiles between carrier storage & it's bombers, but always good to have a contingency plan (particularly one involving several hundred spare missiles).

[Ragnos28]

Hey, I like Collosus also But I don't think a Collosus would perform well in this combat scenario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccNBsTc8hzo

Maybe not, but then the way I play it doesn't need to. There's always something on the order of 48 S fighters & 5-10 destroyers in between the command carrier & enemy forces. If I don't think that'll be enough there'll be multiple such fleets operating in the sector. All I need my carriers to do is lurk at the back next to the auxiliaries & send out Attack wings of bombers to assist the destroyers & Interceptor fighters to watch everyone's back. The turrets on my carriers almost never fire, indeed more often than not the L turret is specifically configured not to. Last couple of games came to the realisation that if it's almost never going to shoot at anything I might find it more useful as an offline missile turret. Just there to boost the carrier's reserve missile supply, in case it ever runs out of resources to make missiles & all of it's M storage freighters are empty too. That's never actually happened so far, & frankly would be quite fiddly to have to manually transfer missiles between carrier storage & it's bombers, but always good to have a contingency plan (particularly one involving several hundred spare missiles).

To each his own As for me, I do enjoy a ships that has the capability to depopulate the most heavy defended xenon sector in my game, at that moment, in 20 minutes
Plus, the Raptor alows me to play BSG style, just one ship against an hostile universe I would need a wharf tho to replace the fallen Chimera And I could do that too, if not for those damn stations that I need the Asgard to deal with

[Ragnos28]

Prefer a Bismark approach myself - wave of bombers goes in first to immobilise the target, then a fleet of destroyers rolls up to finish the job. Means I don't need so many bombers, because they're not trying to destroy the entire ship all by themselves. Simplifies the logistics of bomber resupply immensely & also means I can use one of the smaller carriers. Really cannot abide the slow response time of Raptor-based fighters for in-sector work, prefer to use Colossus etc instead.

From what I know and seen about the sinking of the Bismark, the fact that plaines managed to damage the rudder, was pure luck and not some strategy. As for a viable strategy in X4...definitely douable, in fact, you MUST do it, because nothing confuse the already impaired destroyer AI like a moving target, been there, done that.

[GCU Grey Area]

From what I know and seen about the sinking of the Bismark, the fact that plaines managed to damage the rudder, was pure luck and not some strategy. As for a viable strategy in X4...definitely douable, in fact, you MUST do it, because nothing confuse the already impaired destroyer AI like a moving target, been there, done that.

Yep - pure luck in RL & fleet bombardment wasn't entirely effective either (as I recall Bismark was scuttled in the end, rather than destroyed by enemy fire). However as a strategy for nobbling big ships in X4 it does work quite well, particularly when the target has just a single engine...

[Ragnos28]

Yep - pure luck in RL & fleet bombardment wasn't entirely effective either (as I recall Bismark was scuttled in the end, rather than destroyed by enemy fire). However as a strategy for nobbling big ships in X4 it does work quite well, particularly when the target has just a single engine...

You recall well But it was a last act of defiance from the crew, like...you are not gone sink it, WE are gone sink it...their fate was sealed either way.

About the take out engines of big ships in X4 tactic, I notice that you can give "fleet atack my target" orders, so if I target the engines, my subordonates will atack the engines? Someting like that?

[Alan Phipps]

@ GCU: The Admiral Graf Spee was scuttled outside Montevideo rather than be interned in case that rings a bell.

The steering disabled Bismarck was effectively sunk by a combination of heavy shellfire from the Battleships King George V and Rodney and later the Heavy Cruisers Norfolk and Dorsetshire, finishing up with torpedoes from Dorsetshire. There were indeed scuttling orders given to Bismarck's engine crew but she was already listing well over with decks awash as they were carried out. I think the capital engagement tactic was indeed pretty evident towards her end.

[GCU Grey Area]

About the take out engines of big ships in X4 tactic, I notice that you can give "fleet atack my target" orders, so if I target the engines, my subordonates will atack the engines? Someting like that?

It's one of the tasks I use the S bombers assigned to my personal destroyer for. They have the Attack assignment, so as soon as I switch them to Launched status & I target anything hostile (including individual subsystems on enemy ships) they'll automatically fly over & launch missiles at it for me. It's pure laziness really, I could quite easily fly round the back of an enemy ship & shoot it myself. However it's often just easier to send out a bunch of bombers to do the job for me (there's also the megalomaniacal "Muahahaha - I just have to look at things & then they explode!" factor to consider). It's also one of the reasons I'm very fond of Behemoth for personal use - more S docks than any other destroyer.

[Ragnos28]

About the take out engines of big ships in X4 tactic, I notice that you can give "fleet atack my target" orders, so if I target the engines, my subordonates will atack the engines? Someting like that?

It's one of the tasks I use the S bombers assigned to my personal destroyer for. They have the Attack assignment, so as soon as I switch them to Launched status & I target anything hostile (including individual subsystems on enemy ships) they'll automatically fly over & launch missiles at it for me. It's pure laziness really, I could quite easily fly round the back of an enemy ship & shoot it myself. However it's often just easier to send out a bunch of bombers to do the job for me (there's also the megalomaniacal "Muahahaha - I just have to look at things & then they explode!" factor to consider). It's also one of the reasons I'm very fond of Behemoth for personal use - more S docks than any other destroyer.

I see About destroyers being able to carry just as many fighters as a carrier, a big meh for me. And always, when I look at a Behemoth that store 40 fighters, my reaction is...where? how? how the f...what kind of sorcery is this?
In the case of Osaka is even more..how the f***. 40? where?

[GCU Grey Area]

I see About destroyers being able to carry just as many fighters as a carrier, a big meh for me. And always, when I look at a Behemoth that store 40 fighters, my reaction is...where? how? how the f...what kind of sorcery is this?
In the case of Osaka is even more..how the f***. 40? where?

Cargo compression, I guess? Always been a thing in X games. That said, suspect it tends to be a self correcting issue for most. I mean does anyone actually use all that capacity? In my experience launch & retrieval gets rather tedious if you try to pack too many fighters into a non-carrier (particularly for Osaka etc with only 1 dock). Behemoth's better than most & keeping a few fighters around has certainly proved to be damn handy at times, but it's still no carrier. Really need a proper carrier with fast launch tubes in order to use that many fighters efficiently.

[Falcrack]

A fair comparison that needs to be made, is the cost of an Asgard vs the equivalent cost of a Raptor + fighters.

Although the equivalent cost of just fighters (no Raptor) vs an Asgard I suspect would win every time.

[Ragnos28]

A fair comparison that needs to be made, is the cost of an Asgard vs the equivalent cost of a Raptor + fighters.

Although the equivalent cost of just fighters (no Raptor) vs an Asgard I suspect would win every time.

I did some price checking in my game. If I were to sell my Raptor to a split shipyard I would get 56 kk. Funny enough, the ship price does not take in consideration the value of the ships that are docked on it, so 60 torpedo Chimera and 40 missile Chimera, did not factor in to the price at all. So, selling the fighters on their own, fech another 52-53 kk. If I order the Raptor with my configuration, flak on all m turetts, it would cost me 74kk.

Now on the Asgard, if I sell it I would get 90kk. Now, the terran shipyard will not build you and Asgard, but I imagine that the price will go up a bit.

The thing is, we either build or capture the Asgard, so is not really a matter of cost. Also, I only bought the Raptor, the Chimeras I build on my wharf, because I have cash but there is no way I would have spent that much money on fighters, plus good luck waiting for split shipyards to gather resources to build 100 ammo carring Chimeras.

And, as a personal opinion, it feels more satisfying when you have your Raptor complete with bombers and fighters, that having an Asgard. In theory, as soon as you have a Katana and 2 Sonra with marines, presto...you have an Asgard. In the case of the Raptor's fighter complement, you would most likely build them in your own wharf and you need some infrastructure in place for that, you can't capture 100 Chimera, I mean you could, but how much time will that take The same with capturing a Raptor, not so easy.

Imo, the fact that is so easy to board an Asgard, kinda defeat the purpose of the Asgard as an end game goal, as I imagine, was the vision the devs had in mind.

In conclusion, Asgard for busting stations, Raptor + fighter complement for when you must kill everything that flyes in a sector. The carriers are the "queens" of today battlefields and I'm pleased with the fact that X4 follow the same philosophy.

[GCU Grey Area]

the Chimeras I build on my wharf, because I have cash but there is no way I would have spent that much money on fighters, plus good luck waiting for split shipyards to gather resources to build 100 ammo carring Chimeras.

Can't possibly be as bad as building Boson Chimeras. During my ZYA Split game decided each of my 4 fleets absolutely needed 20 Boson-armed Chimeras, with this spec: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejo4j5cc2bwxi ... 1.jpg?dl=0. 80 fighters x 1445 weapon components each was something of a logistical challenge to say the least. They were also ferociously expensive, to the point where I had to cut back the spec to mk3 engines only - the idea of spending destroyer money on S fighters (although could have afforded it) seemed faintly absurd. Was also another logistical nightmare I didn't really want to deal with.