ZYA are helpless against Xenon?

[budforceuk]

I'm on my third major playthrough now and on each the ZYA get trashed.

On my first playthrough being new to the game I guess I wasted a lot of time, by the time I had got up to ZYA space nearly all of their systems had been taken

On my second playthrough as terrans, was similar although my game has not progressed as far.

I'm on my third playthrough now, not very far and at all and I am actively trying to support the ZYA, building stations etc, and they are starting to get trashed again, there is a K9 in Zyarths Dominion I now trashing their stations and they are doing nothing about it.

[dmk]

yep same happened in my game.
actually Split can't even kill their own defense stations, too stupid AI, too weak ships, and too close range turrets.

[KextV8]

Always have been. Low shield = bad. Low range, low rotation speed on weapons. AI doesn't use firepower or speed advantage well enough to offset those disadvantages. Split will lose lots of ships and compounded with how much more expensive their ships are to build and equip than other race ships, they can't handle it and they fall apart every time.

They have a high tendency to bottleneck on either hull parts or engine parts and just stop being able to build.

[Panos]

I'm on my third major playthrough now and on each the ZYA get trashed.

On my first playthrough being new to the game I guess I wasted a lot of time, by the time I had got up to ZYA space nearly all of their systems had been taken

On my second playthrough as terrans, was similar although my game has not progressed as far.

I'm on my third playthrough now, not very far and at all and I am actively trying to support the ZYA, building stations etc, and they are starting to get trashed again, there is a K9 in Zyarths Dominion I now trashing their stations and they are doing nothing about it.

Split ships are weak when the XEN destroyers show up unfortunately, while the majority of the fleet is usually around at the 11th Hour gate fighting ARG.

[GCU Grey Area]

ZYA are in a crappy situation right from the start. Their core sectors are surrounded by enemies, Argons on one side & multiple Xenon sectors on the other. One of their most important resource sectors (Family Zhin) is right on the invasion route from one of those Xenon sectors & usually falls within a few days of starting a new game. This leaves them heavily reliant on external trade, particularly with the Teladi, & also cuts them off from several ZYA sectors to the west. Compounding the problem is that, at least until the Split plot is resolved, their forces are stretched very thin policing FRF territory in addition to defending their own sectors.

If you want to help them I think Trade may be a key factor. They have good ships but they're expensive to build, so keeping their ship-building facilities well stocked can be vital (& often very profitable). Completing the Split plot has also helped a great deal in my games, even the one where I was an enemy to ZYA right from the start. Think this lets them reallocate a fairly sizeable force to defend their core sectors, invade the neighbouring Argon sectors (in a couple of my games have seen them take 11th Hour soon after the Split plot is over) & push back against the Xenon. Tends to be a war of attrition, given the short range of Rattlesnake guns & weak shields, but if they're well supplied they can eventually prevail & start taking back lost territory.

[razor202]

If you don't complete Split's compaign, their military force will always stay a very low level and won't build Raptors. What's more, their sub factions' conflicts weaken the power of the whole faction. Their sectors' resource and economy level is also not so plentiful.

[dmk]

If you don't complete Split's compaign, their military force will always stay a very low level and won't build Raptors. What's more, their sub factions' conflicts weaken the power of the whole faction. Their sectors' resource and economy level is also not so plentiful.

to complete compaign you need a lot of resources, when you have them it would be over for Zya(they don't have even defense stations anymore in their last and main sector),
AI should be fixed so their destroyers can defeat K(at least two to one), and defense stations (at least 3 to one defense station) both while player nearby, and when he out of sector.

[budforceuk]

If you don't complete Split's compaign, their military force will always stay a very low level and won't build Raptors. What's more, their sub factions' conflicts weaken the power of the whole faction. Their sectors' resource and economy level is also not so plentiful.

to complete compaign you need a lot of resources, when you have them it would be over for Zya(they don't have even defense stations anymore in their last and main sector),
AI should be fixed so their destroyers can defeat K(at least two to one), and defense stations (at least 3 to one defense station) both while player nearby, and when he out of sector.

Yeah this is the problem, unless you are doing some kind of meta play through, you wont have enough resources or be strong enough to either complete that quest or build enough yourself to save them.

I am at the moment running around with my single free Syn destroyer that I got fromt the terrans trying to help them out, buts its a slow process pounding stations and running around after invading K9's. The Argon to the east are also coming through into Zyarths Dominion X, and again is doesnt look like the ZYA are putting up much of a fight at all. And I want to stay friendly with Argon so nothing I can do to help them really.

I am building stations in their systems, mainly hull parts, but again, that is a slow porcess to build that up and they are going down faster then I can do anything.

[jlehtone]

If you don't complete Split's compaign, their military force will always stay a very low level and won't build Raptors.

I have not even started the plot, but ZYA has built multiple Raptors, have at least two, and they have plenty of Rattlesnake fleets too. They do build, if they have opportunity.

The "useless" in thread title implies that one would like to use them; to make them fight Xenon on your behalf.
Would it be more appropriate to use "helpless"; that they have trouble to cope on their own?

[jlehtone]

I want to stay friendly with Argon so nothing I can do to help them really.

I am building stations in their systems, mainly hull parts, but again, that is a slow porcess to build that up and they are going down faster then I can do anything.

I did have MORTs buy (cheap) resources from ARG and sell them to ZYA. Argons love you even if you deplete their means to wage war ...

[budforceuk]

Helpless is probably a better word yes

[Pesanur]

The worst is that at the same time, HOP and Teladi wipe out the Xenon sectors of the south. Egosoft have a lot of work yet balancing the factions.

[foxxbl]

I agree guys, in my latest playthrough started with CoH, ZYA is beaten badly by Xenon, once they had 2 fleets consisting each of I and multiple Ks in Zyarth's Dominion I..
I am constantly helping them, cleaning their stations and fleets..
Not so strong yet to finish Split plot to help them

Spoiler

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unify under CUB or ZYA. Last time (SV playthrough) I helped CUB, will do ZYA this time.

Currently cleaning up path to Yaki, hoping that will relieve some of the pressure on ZYA.

In the other fronts, situation is status quo with HOP TEL and ANT vs Xenon, maybe sometimes I need to clean a station or two from Ianamus Zura IV to keep my trade routes, but Faulty Logic and Scale Plate are untouched. I am glad Savage Spur has one-way Superhighway between it's zones, because TER would spread much further and destroy Yaki most probably.
Btw I don't have any shipyards in TEL or HOP space, only in PAR and ZYA (and only recently upgraded wharfs to shipyards) , maybe this has also impact?

[NightmareNight91]

Sadly they cant afford to replace lost rattlesnakes, so they ALWAYS die out to xenon argon conflicts. Unless you protect them like a endangered species. 4 defence stations built by the player at the border sectors where the xenon pour through can protect them from xenon rollover. Focus on capturing an asgard, use it to wipe xenon from the northern most zya borders.

[jlehtone]

The worst is that at the same time, HOP and Teladi wipe out the Xenon sectors of the south. Egosoft have a lot of work yet balancing the factions.

Or perhaps not. Based on all user posts the game is deliciously labile. A coin toss can topple it to any direction. Tiny player actions can do the same.

On my start (3.10) HOP had a fleet, but it vanished. To attrition, I presume.
PAR did detonate HOP Dock and Wharf. (Had the AI used HOP Fleet for defense while it still was there, that would not have happened.)
HOP did rebuild, but by then there were less HOP logistics left, so the Wharf was not supplied. No supply, no ships, no logistics.
Naturally, when single ship gets built, the AI sends it to suicide. (With ZYA this is a daily tale.) Retains the state.
Point is, the HOP was toothless and did attack nobody.

Until, ... I did ship them some resources (just like I had to ZYA), HOP managed to gather a full Doom Fleet, took Second Contact, attacked Black Hole Sun, demolished ANT Trading Station in The Void, and pushed through Xenon to Atiya. Tiny actions.

[GCU Grey Area]

Tiny actions.

Agree. Think in my FRF Split game I inadvertently saved ZYA (with whom I was an enemy from the start & throughout) by intervening in the Paranid civil war. PAR were being absolutely hammered by HOP. They had lost the entirety of Pious Mists & Sacred Relic, & were in grave danger of losing Unholy Retribution too. After that there would be little left to defend Trinity Sanctum. I took a mission to build a defence platform in Unholy Retribution to help out. As a consequence Trinity Sanctum was saved & thus HOP never had a direct border with the Teladi who, not needing to defend themselves against HOP, had sufficient surplus resources to trade with ZYA...

[Bozz11]

I make a lot of money thanks to ZYA, in all my games I make big stations in heretic's end and just endlessly supply ZYA shipyard, they build ships and loose them like 1 hour later it's an endless flow of hull parts and shit that go into their shipyard and give me money, but yeah even if you supply them like crazy it's not sure that they will win, what helps is mods like FOCW that make them build more Raptors, those do change the tide in the war

[Panos]

ZYA needs XEN war guild mission and the associated war logic, as per current game code.

Probably include the "Distant" mission logic, TER have, to supply the FRF space, as long as the player hasn't progressed the Split campaign to the appearance of CUB .

[NightmareNight91]

Ive been supplying ZYA with hull parts engine parts advanced electronics and weapon componenents while also guarding all of there borders, they still havent recovered more than 3 rattlesnakes or rebuilt lost sectors, they sit as "unclaimed" im assuming the AI doesnt know how to handle unclaimed sectors at this point. I am on a budgeted start in which all plots are complete with ZYA taking over most FRF sectors, they still got stomped by xenon before I intervened. They just CANNOT afford to produce ships to fight the xenon or even defend themselves even with all those extra sectors at game start.

[Maxila]

I'm on my third major playthrough now and on each the ZYA get trashed.

On my first playthrough being new to the game I guess I wasted a lot of time, by the time I had got up to ZYA space nearly all of their systems had been taken

On my second playthrough as terrans, was similar although my game has not progressed as far.

I'm on my third playthrough now, not very far and at all and I am actively trying to support the ZYA, building stations etc, and they are starting to get trashed again, there is a K9 in Zyarths Dominion I now trashing their stations and they are doing nothing about it.

If it helps, In my second playthrough. I did the Yak mission early, decided to help them and cleared the Xeon from Savage Spur, both Tharka's Cascade's, and Matrix 79B. After that the ZYA , on their own, cleared the Xeon from Rhy's Defiance and Matrix 598 and they are doing well in my no mod game.