Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

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Omni-Orb
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Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Omni-Orb » Sat, 4. Dec 21, 09:52

If we reduced the number of stations and instead had fewer slightly larger stations with larger modules like habitation and storage it would reduce the overall number of docking, habitation and storage modules, and free up room for the factions to have larger fleets when it comes to pc system requirements. It would also make the systems and stations feel larger, instead of what happens now with sometimes 20+ stations in a sector where most of the modules are docking, habitation and storage.

And also with larger fleets, defence stations should be strategically placed similar to wharfs, shipyards and trade stations to prevent too many sectors changing ownership.

If the combat ships in fleets are larger in size instead of numbers then fleet combat would be more challenging.
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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Panos » Sat, 4. Dec 21, 13:40

PhotonPulse wrote:
Sat, 4. Dec 21, 09:52
If we reduced the number of stations and instead had fewer slightly larger stations with larger modules like habitation and storage it would reduce the overall number of docking, habitation and storage modules, and free up room for the factions to have larger fleets when it comes to pc system requirements. It would also make the systems and stations feel larger, instead of what happens now with sometimes 20+ stations in a sector where most of the modules are docking, habitation and storage.

And also with larger fleets, defence stations should be strategically placed similar to wharfs, shipyards and trade stations to prevent too many sectors changing ownership.

If the combat ships in fleets are larger in size instead of numbers then fleet combat would be more challenging.
You can always raise the number of ships per faction pretty easily with a simple mod. It doesn't affect much perf at least on a 3900X/5900X system, but it will unbalance the game by a lot.

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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by grapedog » Sat, 4. Dec 21, 23:44

One of the best mods in my opinion is the 10x habitat mod. Jist makes building stations so much better and cleaner.

I avoid exploit type mods that give obvious advantages without balance for me or the NPCs.... this mod increases capacity for NPCs too, they jist dont get much benefit out of it since they rarely build stations needing more than like 2k workers.

But this mod is too useful for me not to use. I don't build megas anymore, but often my stations sit in the 5k-10k workforce range. Stations look so much cleaner without 8 L habs just sticking out of random spots. When i see a TEL station with a single L hab, it just looks more right. Plus i like to keep seperate my production and habitation, for RP reasons, and less habs helps me do that much better.

Though if i had my druthers, id prefer 5x habs over 10x habs. If i learned how to mod the game id probably make a 2x and 5x version for habs, production modules, and storage.... and id personally use a 2x prod modules, 2x storage, and 5x habs.

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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Matthew94 » Sun, 5. Dec 21, 00:20

I've suggested this before too. Seems like a fairly simple solution that help avoid the monster-complexes built by late-game players. I doubt it'd need any serious modelling to implement the visuals. Just strap 2-3 modules together, change a few colours so it looks suitably "super", and boom, job done.

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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Nanook » Sun, 5. Dec 21, 02:44

I bet the graphics artists at Egosoft are getting a big laugh out of "strap ... change ... boom ... job done". :lol:
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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Matthew94 » Sun, 5. Dec 21, 03:23

Nanook wrote:
Sun, 5. Dec 21, 02:44
I bet the graphics artists at Egosoft are getting a big laugh out of "strap ... change ... boom ... job done". :lol:
I was half-joking in that I doubt they'd take that approach but palette swaps for graphics are very common in gaming. I've seen countless games that implement a player upgrade by simply changing the colour of a glowing light on the model.

I know it's a common pastime of people on this forum to scoff and say "it'd be much harder than you think" to every suggestion but something like this could be done easily. Still though, I doubt Egosoft would implement it given that they're as allergic to adding features that would save the player time as they are to making a stable game.

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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Omni-Orb » Mon, 6. Dec 21, 01:58

Panos wrote:
Sat, 4. Dec 21, 13:40
You can always raise the number of ships per faction pretty easily with a simple mod. It doesn't affect much perf at least on a 3900X/5900X system, but it will unbalance the game by a lot.
I would say that balance can be found, however more processing power is more difficult to find?
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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Panos » Mon, 6. Dec 21, 17:51

PhotonPulse wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 01:58
Panos wrote:
Sat, 4. Dec 21, 13:40
You can always raise the number of ships per faction pretty easily with a simple mod. It doesn't affect much perf at least on a 3900X/5900X system, but it will unbalance the game by a lot.
I would say that balance can be found, however more processing power is more difficult to find?
Some of us tried to solve the XEN problem by raising their number of agents. Not by a lot around 15. End result was XEN snowballing the game unopposed.

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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Matthew94 » Mon, 6. Dec 21, 18:37

Panos wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 17:51
PhotonPulse wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 01:58
Panos wrote:
Sat, 4. Dec 21, 13:40
You can always raise the number of ships per faction pretty easily with a simple mod. It doesn't affect much perf at least on a 3900X/5900X system, but it will unbalance the game by a lot.
I would say that balance can be found, however more processing power is more difficult to find?
Some of us tried to solve the XEN problem by raising their number of agents. Not by a lot around 15. End result was XEN snowballing the game unopposed.
15x units seems like an ludicrous increase. Even 50% would be a lot. Or did you mean 15%? I doubt you mean literally 15 units.

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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Omni-Orb » Mon, 6. Dec 21, 19:19

Panos wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 17:51
Some of us tried to solve the XEN problem by raising their number of agents. Not by a lot around 15. End result was XEN snowballing the game unopposed.
Well what im suggesting is upping the number of ships from all factions, while having strategic defence stations and also to find a balace to it so it doesnt spin out of control.
Adjusting only one variable doesnt equal balance. Balance can be achieved even with higher amount of ships. And what i mean is that especially on defence should they have more ships to protect their miners traders and stations. Xenon feel sortof like ripping paper at the moment when it comes to their defensive capabilities.
Im not sure how it is with the other races since i havent tried going to war with any yet. However i feel that miners and traders neeed a fighter escort, And that there should be one or more fleets on defence, and one or more fleets on attack at the same time.
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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by kmunoz » Mon, 6. Dec 21, 19:29

One of the things that I've been thinking about recently is the sense of scale in this game and others. These days, I mostly play X4 but I do rotate between this and Oolite and sometimes Elite Dangerous (and a bit of Rebel Galaxy Outlaw). And what I've discovered is that the scale of X4 doesn't seem small relative to those two because of the reduced number of sectors/zones, but rather because there are so many stations in close proximity to one another in X4. In Elite Dangerous and RGO they're millions of miles apart. In Oolite (heavily modded) they are closer but they're still not the sort of thing you can see everywhere from your cockpit window.

And I think that X3's universe also felt larger not because there were so many sectors but because the sectors themselves were more spread out and the stations were farther apart - even if there were roughly the same number of stations per sector compared to X4.

Reducing the number of stations (and concomitantly increasing their production quantities and types) would, I think, go a long way to making X4's universe feel bigger.

Admittedly, this probably doesn't matter to most players, who play the game for the management/economy sim aspect, and having the stations close together reduces the amount of time spent doing something uninteresting (i.e., flying between them). But for me, the stick jockey, it's evident that X4's universe feels smaller because the distances between things within a given sector are so short.
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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Omni-Orb » Mon, 6. Dec 21, 19:37

kmunoz wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 19:29
One of the things that I've been thinking about recently is the sense of scale in this game and others. These days, I mostly play X4 but I do rotate between this and Oolite and sometimes Elite Dangerous (and a bit of Rebel Galaxy Outlaw). And what I've discovered is that the scale of X4 doesn't seem small relative to those two because of the reduced number of sectors/zones, but rather because there are so many stations in close proximity to one another in X4. In Elite Dangerous and RGO they're millions of miles apart. In Oolite (heavily modded) they are closer but they're still not the sort of thing you can see everywhere from your cockpit window.

And I think that X3's universe also felt larger not because there were so many sectors but because the sectors themselves were more spread out and the stations were farther apart - even if there were roughly the same number of stations per sector compared to X4.

Reducing the number of stations (and concomitantly increasing their production quantities and types) would, I think, go a long way to making X4's universe feel bigger.

Admittedly, this probably doesn't matter to most players, who play the game for the management/economy sim aspect, and having the stations close together reduces the amount of time spent doing something uninteresting (i.e., flying between them). But for me, the stick jockey, it's evident that X4's universe feels smaller because the distances between things within a given sector are so short.
I agree completely. Some sectors feel like im in the middle of a busy city, and i like that too, however i mean that border sectors should be more empty. Also slightly larger stations overall would help the feeling of a large universe. Also it looks stupid in my opinion when 50-75% of what makes up a station is the same three modules, docks storage and habitat and that there is so many of these small stations, and they look about the same. It makes the game feel less diverse. Also the way we build stations now has changed to being able to rotate modules every way, however the stations made by npcs are all the same as the old ones. It would be better if they where not a randomized pattern and instead a large amount of premade stations.
Finding a new station doesnt feel like a highlight of the journey whjen they are all about the same and very blandly made. The station design contest made that very obvious.
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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by GCU Grey Area » Mon, 6. Dec 21, 19:44

PhotonPulse wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 19:19
Im not sure how it is with the other races since i havent tried going to war with any yet.
Can recommend it if you like the Fight part of the game. Personally find it much more fun having one (or more) of the other major factions as enemies. Their destroyers have much longer range guns & turrets than the Xenon (no automatic 4km range advantage), they know how to use missiles (incidentally be paranoid about your engines if flying a capital, all it takes is 1 heavy missile or torpedo in the wrong place...) & find destroying their stations is more enjoyable too because they have much more variation in station design compared to Xenon.

These days I consider the Xenon to be a precious resource that needs to be carefully conserved. Other factions will pay me huge piles of cash for destroying Xenon stations & often throw in purple weapon mods too, so unless I'm being paid for my trouble I mostly leave them alone.

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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Panos » Mon, 6. Dec 21, 21:58

Matthew94 wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 18:37
Panos wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 17:51
PhotonPulse wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 01:58


I would say that balance can be found, however more processing power is more difficult to find?
Some of us tried to solve the XEN problem by raising their number of agents. Not by a lot around 15. End result was XEN snowballing the game unopposed.
15x units seems like an ludicrous increase. Even 50% would be a lot. Or did you mean 15%? I doubt you mean literally 15 units.
15. Not 15x nor 15% :D

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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Eyeklops » Mon, 6. Dec 21, 22:54

Panos wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 21:58
15. Not 15x nor 15% :D
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No one knows how, or why, the Xenon population suddenly increased 15 fold in a matter of days, but what we did know was that the universe was now on fire. Terran Intervention Corps intelligence reported that Xenon stations had constructed model "I" battleships and "K" destroyers non stop for 48 hours. When the invasion started stations that took generations to build were vaporized instantly from thousands of Graviton turrets seemingly fired at once. In only 36 hours the Paranid and Split empires were extinct from the universe. Teladi were gone the next day. When Black Hole Sun fell the remaining humanoid factions put aside their ongoing war and formed the Coalition of Humanity (COH) to stop the Xenon's push into Second Contact II.

With the majority of the universe lost to the Xenon the COH constructed five mighty fleets to guard the remaining entrances into friendly sectors. Getsu Fune, Frontier Edge, Argon Prime, and Second Contact II became the major battle grounds for the survival of humanity. Losses were high. Even with the abundance of resources held by the Terrans it was not looking good for the COH....until an unknown faction appeared.

Identified only as "The Followers of Panos" this faction bolstered the war efforts of the COH with innovative and efficient station designs, ruthless battle tactics, and amazing never-seen-before modifications to ships. Some say that the great Panos was a true five star master in all disciplines and he will be the savior of humanity. Others rant that he is a spiteful god, and the increase in Xenon population is his doing, and he is only playing games with their lives. Regardless of what they all think, they all know that the fate and survival of this universe rests squarely in his hands.

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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by grapedog » Mon, 6. Dec 21, 23:39

I would also prefer fewer larger stations. No need for 3 or 4 hull parts stations in the same sector, just produce 1 or 2 larger stations. Or 5 hull parts stations between 2 neighboring sectors. Just creates bloat and a sense of sameness. In my head each factions core sectors would be rather bustling with activity... but outside the main faction sectors, more pirates, less general commerce but still some. What then do you put there to give them a reason to exist at all in the game? Coperations maybe?

I currenntly use XRShipPack and Faction Enhancer, and the Xenon are a bit overboard. If not for player intervention, they would run amok over everyone. So that isn't the right balance, though i do enjoy the challenge... it wouldn't suit for a sit back and be a merchant playstyle.

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Re: Thoughts on how to improve the game universe

Post by Matthew94 » Tue, 7. Dec 21, 00:33

Panos wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 21:58
Matthew94 wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 18:37
Panos wrote:
Mon, 6. Dec 21, 17:51


Some of us tried to solve the XEN problem by raising their number of agents. Not by a lot around 15. End result was XEN snowballing the game unopposed.
15x units seems like an ludicrous increase. Even 50% would be a lot. Or did you mean 15%? I doubt you mean literally 15 units.
15. Not 15x nor 15% :D
You're saying 15 extra units in the entire universe caused the Xenon to snowball and conquer most of the galaxy? I find that hard to believe. By agent you mean unit i.e. a ship? I feel like I'm missing something here. Were they all K's?

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