Not another game breaking DLC

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DaMuncha
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Not another game breaking DLC

Post by DaMuncha » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 04:37

Adding more content to the game is great!... except when it breaks all your mods and requires you to restart the game from scratch yet again.
Just... another... bug.

LameFox
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by LameFox » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 04:47

Not really sure what anyone could do about that. You can't account for all the things people could potentially modify when updating your game. They're often not even compatible with each other.
***modified***

abisha1980
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by abisha1980 » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 06:48

you think it's bad in this game?

try stellaris when you have 160+ mods when paradox DLC the game each half year. and yea it really CTD then
so far i know Egosoft add "new content" without adjusting core files mods should keep working other people unmodified saves will also brake

they kind of crippling them self because they try to please whole group.
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DaMuncha
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by DaMuncha » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 07:57

I played 1.0 extensively till the universe got jam packed full of stations spawning everywhere, which wasnt fixed till 2.0, then 2.0 broke the player HQ for anyone who started the game with a 2.0 save, and that wasnt fixed till v2.3, 6 months later, then an update changed pirate behavior and made my game run at 5fps, so I had to start a new save without the pirate mod I was using, then they anounced 3.0 which a bunch of fixes that I desperately needed (lack of food on stations destroying FPS), but they didnt release that or the fixes with it for 8 months, then I started yet another new game, but none of my stations would build because of lack of resources accross the whole universe and making money was so slow, then 4.0 came out, I played it for a few days barely getting anything done, then just threw in the towel and said **** it im done with this shit. The best gameplay was with v1.0 and after that Ego just kept making the game worse despite the new features. Now 5.0 is announced with pirate/salvage features I begged for since the game released and thats not scheduled till Q1 next year, and will most likely be pushed back another 6 months like all other promises Ego has made. Egosoft desperately need to improve thier update pipeline because I was done with this game by the time 2.3 came out. So when the game is finally finished, bug free, and stable, I'll play again.
Just... another... bug.

LoqLamp
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by LoqLamp » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 08:07

Oh so just like pretty much every other game in existence then. Besides nothing is forcing you to update.

Gavrushka
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by Gavrushka » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 08:16

I think you have to accept that when tailoring a game to your preferences, there's always gonna be an issue when the base game changes or additional content becomes available. - This has been the same throughout the history of game modding, and I'm just a little baffled as to why the OP has chosen to tell the rest of us 'the sky is blue.' - And the thing is, I'm sure a significant part of the modding community look forward to the challenge of the new content. - One of the most active of beta-testers is a modder who is a superb help to Egosoft in both uncovering technical oopses and in making suggestions that would help the modding community further tailor the game to their preferences.

I am delighted with the game, as are many people, and am delighted with Egosoft's approach to what must have been a very thorny challenge. - I'm also anticipating further DLC content to arrive after this third one, so I feel the OP may be waiting a very, very long time to play the 'final' version of the game. And by that point X5 will likely be about to drop, and the cycle will repeat! LOL
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Axeface
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by Axeface » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 15:01

There is nothing developers can do about breaking mods in updates. I see these complaints for every single game that has a modding scene. Mods can change the game, and devs can decide to change the same thing as a mod. Literally, there is nothing they can do. The only answer would be no modding.

DaMuncha
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by DaMuncha » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 15:21

I cant play the game without your awsome modded ships tho. Much love. (Egosoft should realy hire you to make official content)
Just... another... bug.

Manawydn
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by Manawydn » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 15:47

DaMuncha wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 04:37
Adding more content to the game is great!... except when it breaks all your mods and requires you to restart the game from scratch yet again.
And I'm tired of development being held back due to the need for save-game compatibility. Custom starts will help mitigate that issue, and is the middle-ground. In this way, you can start again with most/all of your assets in tact (so to speak).

Panos
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by Panos » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 16:39

DaMuncha wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 04:37
Adding more content to the game is great!... except when it breaks all your mods and requires you to restart the game from scratch yet again.
You use the mods by your own peril. Do not upgrade to latest version if you do not like it then.

Egosoft, nor any other company, will stop developing their games because some users use mods.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by mr.WHO » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 16:56

abisha1980 wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 06:48
try stellaris when you have 160+ mods when paradox DLC the game each half year. and yea it really CTD then
OMG Yes, that's the reason why I dropped Stellaris, cuz it's became constant "waiting for update of x/y/z" chain to finish and just when it's done, another update drop in to restart the whole thing again.

Egosoft is really tame comparing to Paradox.
1 DLC per year and usually one major update mid-year (that often don't break most of existing mods and moders usually already participate in beta anyway) is a sweet spot between having a new content and having fun with mods.
Manawydn wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 15:47
DaMuncha wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 04:37
Adding more content to the game is great!... except when it breaks all your mods and requires you to restart the game from scratch yet again.
And I'm tired of development being held back due to the need for save-game compatibility. Custom starts will help mitigate that issue, and is the middle-ground. In this way, you can start again with most/all of your assets in tact (so to speak).

Yeah, it was great move with custom start - for me it's not even assets, but need to go through tedious plot states (e.g. unify Paranids).
Having this make me more keen to drop my continous since 1.0 game start if it would actually be needed.
So far my X4 1.0 gameplay is the longest continous play out of all X-series.

Albeit, I'd be more keen to buy new stand alone X4 game (alike to X3TC or X3AP or X3FL).

Rei Ayanami
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by Rei Ayanami » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 19:13

mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 16:56
Albeit, I'd be more keen to buy new stand alone X4 game (alike to X3TC or X3AP or X3FL).
Why, what would be the point of having a new standalone? It'd just split up the community, especially with regards to modding and would split Egosofts development focus.
I'd say as long as Egosoft's plan does not require a new game (engine-limitations that can't be solved with a patch), Egosoft should stay with and extend the current X4 for as long as possible.
DaMuncha wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 04:37
Adding more content to the game is great!... except when it breaks all your mods and requires you to restart the game from scratch yet again.
Then simply don't get the DLC and don't update the game until a compatible version of the mod is out?
I don't know what else to tell you. Egosoft can't guarantee mods for older versions to work with new versions or added DLC.
Using mods is at your own risk.

Should Egosoft stop development of the game just because some mods they are not responsible for could become incompatible?
Are you demanding that Egosoft should develop their fixes and content around all mods in existence to avoid compatibility issues? That's silly.
It's not Egosofts responsibility to stay compatible with mods, it's the job of modders to keep their mods up-to-date with the current version.
Last edited by Rei Ayanami on Sat, 27. Nov 21, 19:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Matthew94
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by Matthew94 » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 19:25

Rei Ayanami wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 19:13
mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 16:56
Albeit, I'd be more keen to buy new stand alone X4 game (alike to X3TC or X3AP or X3FL).
Why, what would be the point of having a new standalone?
The main benefit I could see of a standalone game would be that Egosoft could make large changes without affecting X4 e.g. removing/altering the highway ring, changing which factions are at war etc. I'm not saying I advocate for them but that's the benefit that I see.

Rei Ayanami
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by Rei Ayanami » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 19:29

Matthew94 wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 19:25
Rei Ayanami wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 19:13
mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 16:56
Albeit, I'd be more keen to buy new stand alone X4 game (alike to X3TC or X3AP or X3FL).
Why, what would be the point of having a new standalone?
The main benefit I could see of a standalone game would be that Egosoft could make large changes without affecting X4 e.g. removing/altering the highway ring, changing which factions are at war etc. I'm not saying I advocate for them but that's the benefit that I see.
This could "easily" be done by just implementing a few more switches in the custom game start where we can change relations and toggle highways or, in the case of faction relations changing while-in-game, adding diplomacy features into the game where the player can bribe/manipulate factions to change their relations.
No extra standalone game needed and players don't have to use them if not desired.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by mr.WHO » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 19:59

Rei Ayanami wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 19:13
mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 16:56
Albeit, I'd be more keen to buy new stand alone X4 game (alike to X3TC or X3AP or X3FL).
Why, what would be the point of having a new standalone? It'd just split up the community, especially with regards to modding and would split Egosofts development focus.
I'd say as long as Egosoft's plan does not require a new game (engine-limitations that can't be solved with a patch), Egosoft should stay with and extend the current X4 for as long as possible.
Because Egosoft would not be limited by save-game compactibility, so they could make more extensive changes that way.
Mods an community would not be a limitation - mods were easily migrated from X3R to X3TC to X3AP to X3FL.

Raevyan
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by Raevyan » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 22:20

DaMuncha wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 04:37
Adding more content to the game is great!... except when it breaks all your mods and requires you to restart the game from scratch yet again.
You don’t need mods to break the game. Egosoft does it whenever they release a major patch with a dlc. Just look back at 4.0 which was a huge step backwards from 3.3. I totally expect 5.0 to be same as previous patches, new content being a buggy mess and all plots have major plot stopping bugs. We can only hope they don’t screw up this much again like with xenon oos combat and starting to fix it 6months later.

Tomonor
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by Tomonor » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 22:27

Okay NGL, that's the weirdest request I've read so far, especially with that reasoning.
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Manawydn
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by Manawydn » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 03:26

mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 19:59
Rei Ayanami wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 19:13
mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 16:56
Albeit, I'd be more keen to buy new stand alone X4 game (alike to X3TC or X3AP or X3FL).
Why, what would be the point of having a new standalone? It'd just split up the community, especially with regards to modding and would split Egosofts development focus.
I'd say as long as Egosoft's plan does not require a new game (engine-limitations that can't be solved with a patch), Egosoft should stay with and extend the current X4 for as long as possible.
Because Egosoft would not be limited by save-game compactibility, so they could make more extensive changes that way.
Mods an community would not be a limitation - mods were easily migrated from X3R to X3TC to X3AP to X3FL.
Not to mention updating the engine it's self. A new Standalone could look, feel, and sound just like X4, but be radically different under the hood, allowing for performance optimization.

Manawydn
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by Manawydn » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 03:37

rene6740 wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 22:20
DaMuncha wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 04:37
Adding more content to the game is great!... except when it breaks all your mods and requires you to restart the game from scratch yet again.
You don’t need mods to break the game. Egosoft does it whenever they release a major patch with a dlc. Just look back at 4.0 which was a huge step backwards from 3.3. I totally expect 5.0 to be same as previous patches, new content being a buggy mess and all plots have major plot stopping bugs. We can only hope they don’t screw up this much again like with xenon oos combat and starting to fix it 6months later.
If you think that 4.x was a major step back from 3.x, then you need to go back and play 3.x // Comparing 3.3 to 4.0 is inaccurate. They are different builds, and the .0 version is always the messiest due to the sweeping changes made. That's why 3.0 was a "problem" 2.0 was a "problem" and 1.0 was a "problem". That's why new dlc for *checks notes* Every video game released after 2012 causes problems with the community. If you look at it from a developer's perspective, I think you would have more appreciation for the work that was done to keep your save game compatible.

EGOSOFT works hard to keep your game compatible. You using mods negates that. It does so with *checks notes* -Literally every single video game that includes mods. Try uninstalling Legacy of the Dragonborn in the middle of a save-game in Skyrim. See what it does. Of course any change to the base-game, and addons will cause issue. That is why it is always recommended, in every single mod channel, forum, and media outlet to start a new game whenever you change your mod list.


So, the problem here, is not the game breaking your mods. The problem is that you don't know the very first rule of modding, which is - never expect it to work long-term. Because it won't. An update, a bug that happened hours ago following you around, who knows. Stability, like Perfection is something you always strive for. Even though you know in the back of your mind that perfect stability in a video game does not exist at this time.

RedEyedRaven
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Re: Not another game breaking DLC

Post by RedEyedRaven » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 03:58

Quite frankly there are a lot of mods that haven't been updated for CoH and they still work just fine.

The only mods that are prone to breaking and requiring attention by their authors are typically mods that modify actual systems/mechanics, like VRO or SWI.

Mods that merely add ships or weapons (and by extention of ships, jobs) usually won't break just because the game is updated or expanded.
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