Missile usage by fighters in 4.2 update

[Shuulo]

After installing the beta updated I noticed that fighters started to use missiles almost non-stop, quickly draining their ammo reserves.
From one point, they just use the weapon they have. But from another - a lot of missiles are just wasted in the process, especially when fighters still use slow missiles against fast targets that will never be able to hit them.

I built up my carrier wings with them not using missiles every second in mind, but now I have resupply issues.
I don't think there is any kind of middle-ground generally acceptable missile fire chance. And I want once again to request from devs to add this parameter to the game, so we can setup this based on our own needs.
This should be the setting in the same wharf menu tab where we assign missiles to launchers, so that it can be saved in the fighter template, please?

[Falcrack]

Some ability to configure missile usage, so that certain missile types are only to be used against certain classes of targets, would be useful.

[LameFox]

I do remember that we used to be able to configure this in X3, with a % value to fire missiles. I don't know exactly what the % referred to, but it seemed to work anyway in that I could tweak it until satisfied with how often they fired.

Adding an extended one with % to fire per missile and per target size would be interesting, but if we don't even get the bare minimum options I guess chances of better ones are low.

[Falcrack]

I do remember that we used to be able to configure this in X3, with a % value to fire missiles. I don't know exactly what the % referred to, but it seemed to work anyway in that I could tweak it until satisfied with how often they fired.

Adding an extended one with % to fire per missile and per target size would be interesting, but if we don't even get the bare minimum options I guess chances of better ones are low.

This was only possible with a mod in X3 if I recall.

[Shuulo]

I do remember that we used to be able to configure this in X3, with a % value to fire missiles. I don't know exactly what the % referred to, but it seemed to work anyway in that I could tweak it until satisfied with how often they fired.

Adding an extended one with % to fire per missile and per target size would be interesting, but if we don't even get the bare minimum options I guess chances of better ones are low.

This was only possible with a mod in X3 if I recall.

missile fire probability was vanilla, LU mod allowed to set rules for how to use missiles vs different targets.
Even basic fire probability will be a big QoL improvement IMO

[Sirus5]

I must admit I have found in this update that many of the NPC tend to fire missiles

I was in an Asp (2 Pulse, 1 Ion of course) and came across a Minotaur Pillager...
As a precaution I scanned it and found it had 20 Smart missiles - sure enough when
I had made him angry, he started firing missiles - I immediately boosted away and
used travel drive (Par Combat MK3) - and got away.

Of course the tactics I used here - although I got away I badly wanted that minotaur for
my collection - thus at about 10km away, I switched off flight assist enabling me to turn
rapidly and face him again before turning flight assist on - thus ensuring I slowed down quickly and
then was in travel mode towards him - (Missiles Missed ) - as I closed again I switched off assist
enabling me to fire at him as I went past just to get him more mad and fire more missiles)...
And then about 10km away again turned around and on with assist to immediately go towards him
-
This was repeated until he ran out of missiles and dropped a few laser towers in desperation before
giving up and gifting me another minotaur for my collection

That's my missile tactics - for an ASP or small ship - any other tactics apart from mega shields and death rays
that anyone cares to impart?

[j.harshaw]

Ships continuously firing missiles (and exclusively using missiles although they have other armament) likely due to cause identified in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=192&t=443006

However, unable to confirm without a save. Can someone provide a save where this is happening so I can confirm?

[Sirus5]

Ships continuously firing missiles (and exclusively using missiles although they have other armament) likely due to cause identified in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=192&t=443006

However, unable to confirm without a save. Can someone provide a save where this is happening so I can confirm?

I will check tonight / tomorrow to see if I have that save -
It was a minotaur who was firing missiles - can't remember if he had any other armament though.
Will let you know Sir.

[j.harshaw]

thanks! and skip the sir. makes me squirm.

also note that the fix is now out in the latest 4.20 beta.

[mr.WHO]

On the other, missile related thing.

I notied that NPC factions and hostiles (e.g. Xenon) turrets switch dynamically between defend and missile-defence, but I never saw it for player ships.

Could we have whatever it is for player ships? Even just the ships that player don't fly directly as a pilot/captain.

[Alm888]

I must admit I have found in this update that many of the NPC tend to fire missiles

I was in an Asp (2 Pulse, 1 Ion of course) and came across a Minotaur Pillager...
As a precaution I scanned it and found it had 20 Smart missiles - sure enough when
I had made him angry, he started firing missiles - I immediately boosted away and
used travel drive (Par Combat MK3) - and got away.

Of course the tactics I used here - although I got away I badly wanted that minotaur for
my collection - thus at about 10km away, I switched off flight assist enabling me to turn
rapidly and face him again before turning flight assist on - thus ensuring I slowed down quickly and
then was in travel mode towards him - (Missiles Missed ) - as I closed again I switched off assist
enabling me to fire at him as I went past just to get him more mad and fire more missiles)...
And then about 10km away again turned around and on with assist to immediately go towards him
-
This was repeated until he ran out of missiles and dropped a few laser towers in desperation before
giving up and gifting me another minotaur for my collection

That's my missile tactics - for an ASP or small ship - any other tactics apart from mega shields and death rays
that anyone cares to impart?

That is a common occurrence in 4.00HF3 as well (I'm playing this version for now, farming Yaki crew on Teladi stations). Minotaur Raiders equipped with missile launchers use all ammo until depletion (provided they were not caught in the "Retreat Vicious Cycle", in which case they forget about their weapons and just boost-travel-boost ad infinitum) and after that they typically try to flee to Resupply and drop Laser Towers as decoys upon being attacked.
If missiles in question are of the "guided" variety, they stand no chance against me (because no way in hell they gonna loose my Takoba and get a chance to "target-lock" me). If they are "smart", "swarm" or "heatseeker", the fight goes with me circling around them using boost+travel combo (ARG Combat Engines Mk3) until depletion and laughing in their helpless faces afterwards.
Missiles may be quick, but not quick enough for my Travel mode, plus, they are slow to turn and slow to accelerate, so quick 180 degree turns are the best tactic against enemy missiles. (And Flares are useless, not that an S-class ship has a large stock of them in the first place).

Worst of all are "Heavy Torpedoes" of MIN Ospreys (and sometimes ARG Cerberus'es). 90% of my "Game Overs" are from them. Not because they are hard to run from (obviously), but because of my "Minotaur Raider" addiction in a Teladi sectors. Those pesky floating bricks launch their torpedoes from some insane 20+ km distance not at me, but at soon-to-be-mine Minotaur. And, as it is not myself who gets target-locked, I do not get a sound warning at all. And when the Minotaur finally turns neutral, those torpedoes keep flying. Usually, I get a "Game Over" in a spacesuit, blowing up right next to my "prize" (and along with it). So, lately I am very cautious and constantly monitoring voice chatter. If I hear some threats from a lizard directed not at me, and then some response shortly after, I always open up the map to see who is speaking and whether there are any frigates in the vicinity.

Regarding missile usage: my theory is that probability of missile usage is dependent on which weapon category a launcher is assigned to. As we know, there are "primary" and "secondary" weapons. By default, if mixed, missile weaponry goes to the "secondary weapon" group. But if there are no other weapons (e.g. missile Minotaur Raider), they are on "primary weapon" group. AI pilots use secondary weapons only sporadically, but use the "primary" ones non-stop as the main weapons.
So, maybe EgoSoft changed something in default setups, so with 4.20 missile weapons go to the primary group by default?

P.S. Also, I do not think AI pilots know how to switch weapon groups. So, if your fighters are equipped with heavy torpedoes and there are no L/XL ships in sight, manually switching their weaponry on a 2nd or 3rd group (said groups should be assigned other weapons sans launchers prior to that, obviously) can help conserve ammunition? Yes, it is a manual process and can be a chore in case of 40+ fighters with a carrier, but still…

[Lord Dakier]

Is anyone going to mention how difficult and tedious it is to even supply a fleet of missile based fighters while we're at it?

[capitalduty]

Please, please could you make missile usage improvements and easier fleet resupply? Right now is really a pain to manage...btw i am really happy with overall improvements on turret department...still I will keep doing more testing if I see something!

[-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-]

Is anyone going to mention how difficult and tedious it is to even supply a fleet of missile based fighters while we're at it?

I can tell you my experience with missiles.

The largest support ship has a container capable of supplying around 80 torpedoes (exactly 84). I based the calculation on the cost of single torpedo missile parts.
When you activate the automatic refueling option on "medium", your support ship will supply 10 or 11 torpedoes per ship (out of a total of 22/23 depending on which ship).
For example, a full load of missile parts allows you to load 10 (or 11) torpedoes on 8 ships, or 20 torpedoes on 4 ships (if you use the "high" refuel option).
To ensure that the support ship is constantly replenished, you will need 6 very fast S traders such as Courier or Tuatara.
These traders will need captains with a high number of stars in piloting, because the range is not determined by the captain of the support ship as is the case for stations, but by their individual ability.

However, with 80 torpedoes you can completely destroy a Xenon defensive station

Repeat this calculation for other types of missiles, checking the quantity of missile parts through the encyclopedia, and you will know the missile / ship ratio that your support ship can handle.

[Lord Dakier]

Is anyone going to mention how difficult and tedious it is to even supply a fleet of missile based fighters while we're at it?

I can tell you my experience with missiles.

The largest support ship has a container capable of supplying around 80 torpedoes (exactly 84). I based the calculation on the cost of single torpedo missile parts.
When you activate the automatic refueling option on "medium", your support ship will supply 10 or 11 torpedoes per ship (out of a total of 22/23 depending on which ship).
For example, a full load of missile parts allows you to load 10 (or 11) torpedoes on 8 ships, or 20 torpedoes on 4 ships (if you use the "high" refuel option).
To ensure that the support ship is constantly replenished, you will need 6 very fast S traders such as Courier or Tuatara.
These traders will need captains with a high number of stars in piloting, because the range is not determined by the captain of the support ship as is the case for stations, but by their individual ability.

However, with 80 torpedoes you can completely destroy a Xenon defensive station

Repeat this calculation for other types of missiles, checking the quantity of missile parts through the encyclopedia, and you will know the missile / ship ratio that your support ship can handle.

Hmmm, I used transports and I doubt any had highly skilled crew. That being said even if you do the above you're still not going to replenish your supply quick enough. In the current system I can't see a wing of torpedo bombers offering much outside the role of alpha striking one or two capital ships or stations before having to spend the next hour or two resupplying. The logistical cost of it all is just far too high and far too tedious.

[Manawydn]

If only we had an all-in-one fleet/ship design template that could address this very need.

Missile fire chance - 5% (or whatever you want in increments of 5)
Missile target priority - M, S, L (or whatever you want)


If only we had a one-stop-shop ala EQDock workshop, HQ Workshop, idk, just even a menu for all I care (though dedicated spaces are cool, I'm looking at YOU Ship Trader!)

[Kajar]

However, with 80 torpedoes you can completely destroy a Xenon defensive station

80 heavy torpedos is only about 1,4 million damage though and xenon station modules have 3 million health, or more, a piece. Resulting in over 15 million total health for a defence platform.