Help with Tactics

[Sirus5]

Got a mission - Deliver a fleet - 1 Falx, 4 Kukri
Normally Simple except it's into Matrix #451 (deliver to the middle east side)

Had a run through there in my IFF equipped Litigious Rodent -
South gate has a Defence platform surrounded by Capital ships and millions of P, M, N and T
North Gate has about 20P, 30M, 30N approx - thus I think I have to go in that way so my fleet is in Family Tkr.

I have 2 ideas
1. send in a fast scout to distract them whilst the Fleet goes to the east and then south
(Problem here is that a fast scout will leave behind the slower ships which then gravitate back towards the North East Gate
thus I may only draw off the N's and a few M's whilst the remaining M and all the P start to follow and then go back.)
2. Buy a Rattlesnake and go in with guns blazing.
This could take time as the shipyards are all short of Advanced Electronics, Engine components etc -
which my HQ is producing and thus I could supply given a bit of time.

I may try the fast scout distraction.... but obviously I want to get a rattlesnake later

If I go for Rattlesnake - should I go for All-Round or Travel Engine? -
Should I go get Argon Flak Turrets, What about shields and mods?

[Edit]
In fact - there may be another way - which looks more convoluted - but could be easier -
Take the fleet into Fires of Defeat, then past a lone "K" guarding the entry to Matrix#9 - a Scout could lure him away
Then there are no vast numbers of Xenon to annoy my fleet - that may work.

[Sirus5]

So - going through Matrix #9 worked for my little fleet.

However, I am stilll going to buy a Rattlesnake and would like some suggestions

1. What would people consider a good OOS loadout
2. What would people consider a good Fly yourself loadout.

I am looking for what Engines (Travel or All-Round)
What weapons, What shields, What mods.

I think I will probably get 2 eventually - one for OOS and one for the occasional melt everything mode.

[baerdesklopapies]

How i outfit a Rattlesnake:
L=Plasma turrets set to attack only Capital Ships
M=Bolt or Pulse turrets set to attack only Fighters (Pulse are hitting Better small and fast S Ships but needs longer to kill a heavy Fighter)
The Rattlesnake Engines are Split Travel MK1 (there is no MK2 ). I would use Paranid if Fly the Rattlesnake a lot my self because the player neeed to Travel a lot but my Rattlesnakes are all assing to a slow carrier and the SPL Engine gives a lot of Combat speed and in Travel mode the Engines are mostly faster than the Carrier .If its set to Intercept on a Fleet, you would welcome the combat Speed.
The setup is working nice for Player and OOS (before 4.1 but it works with this version too). Note that the Turret configuration "Attack only Capital Ships" dosent work on Stations!

The Shields are mostly Teladi somtimes i use Argon or Paranid ... but discus about this is unrelvant, it depends a bit what youre liking. Teladi Shield have a lot Health but slow recharge while Argon and Paranid are something between all other. Just dont use Split shields on Captial Ships because they need Health to Tank.
If you have the option to use Terran shields there is no discus about this. Use the Terran Shields.

If it has assing to a Carrier or Battleship (Raptor/Asgard), the command is Depending on situation.
-If the Carrier has no Fighters the Standard Configuration is: Intercept for commander
-When Attacking a Capital ship/Station: Attack with commander
-When Attacking a Capital ship/Station with lots of Fighters: Attack with commander and on some point i switch back to Intercept (Enemyship Shield down or something)

-If it has assing to a Fleet and the Carrier has Fighters for Intercept, the Standard configuration is: Attack with Commander but i switch to Intercept when a lot of Fighters are around.

-If it is assing to a Fleet with only Destroyers i would use the Rattlesnake as the Commander and all other set to Attack with commander.

One sidenote: My personal Fleetsetup is always the slowest ship or the ship with the most Health is the Commander. All others are flying faster in combat/Travelmode because when the following ships are slower, your commander eventually ends up to Fight allone fighing a big Battle.
Sidenote 2: I do not use Fleets when i Fly Ships myself....


o7

*edit* it would make sense to outfit a Rattlesnake witfh full Plasma to attack a Station or other Capital ships only.
Full Pulse would make some sense too, because the M Pulse Turrets are ok to kill the Drones (Bolt are great too) and the L Pulse turrets have a good chance to hit a Heavy fighter in aproching for attack.

[Sirus5]

Thanks for the ideas and reply.

Engines:-
So - Split Travel - maybe Paranid Travel if a personal ship ( I wouldn't normally use as a personal ship - only occasionally)
I note that the travel engine sacrifices 12 m/s speed for an extra 300 travel speed - that makes sense if you are travelling a lot.

Shields: -
Teladi - Terran if possible

Weapons:-
I was thinking I would put flak on it - Arg flak all round as I would use it mostly anti-fighter or against capitals where there are
fighters about. - Maybe I should mix it a bit with some terran pulse.

Mods: -
I was thinking about the mass/drag mod for Chassis, then one of the engine mods - but not sure which -
I guess that it would be best to have something like whirlygig for extra turning and strafe.

[baerdesklopapies]

...
Weapons:-
I was thinking I would put flak on it - Arg flak all round as I would use it mostly anti-fighter or against capitals where there are
fighters about. - Maybe I should mix it a bit with some terran pulse.

Flak! True! Never used it because the Free families (or whatever they called in english) where long time my Enemys... but i should test the Shotgun (or what ever this is called in English ^^) from ARG!

Mods: -
I was thinking about the mass/drag mod for Chassis, then one of the engine mods - but not sure which -
I guess that it would be best to have something like whirlygig for extra turning and strafe.

It is said that Mods are making the difference...but i´am to lazy to farm the materials . Sorry cant say something about that.

[Karmaticdamage]

No one will suggest flak to you because many feel it is broken and op, anyway you should definitely use argon flak as your M turrets as they are the best M turrets in game right now, and plasma on your L turrets. I prefer paranid L plasma as it has a higher projectile velocity over the others. Put slasher mod on your turrets as it will give them a huge damage and rate of fire increase, the negative cooling penalty doesn't effect turrets as they have no cooling.
Go for speed, drag mod and nudger for engines, or better if you have it. Split engines will allow you to out run xenon fighters, terran engines will let you accelerate super fast into top travel speed, either one is a good choice but split engines would be better for taking on a fighter cloud. With this speed and L plasma turrets, you can kite xenon capitals outside their range, and the flak will melt small ships, pretty much unstoppable as long as you pay attention. Snake shields are kinda weak, I suggest putting on a terran L mk3 shield and the biggest hp increasing shield mod you can afford.
If you can't get flak from argon because of rep, Ali sell argon flak as long as you have rank 10 with them.

[Sirus5]

+1 for Karmaticdamage

Thanks Sir for such a comprehensive but short precise summary
I wish I could deliver such a good summary in business I would make billions

[dtpsprt]

.....................................
If you can't get flak from argon because of rep, Ali sell argon flak as long as you have rank 10 with them.

There is no ALI Equipment Dock and ALI Shipyard is XL only so there is no way to equip a Rattlesnake with Flak from them unfortunately. The +10 ARG reputation is a must as FRF Flak has less range, slower turn speed (therefore worse hit/miss ratio) and less damage spread than ARG even if it has better hit points.

[Imperial Good]

I would fly into it with an Asguard personally. One shot the xenon capitals. Mop up the S and M ships with your turrets. Once gate is clear just fly them straight there.

Syn might also work if flown personally but can have issues if it gets stripped by the fighters.

Sending 5 or so PAR, SPL or TER destroyers would also work unless an I is involved.

You can also wait it out. Often those Xenon fleets guarding gates will leave their position to either attack or defend else where, that is when you fly in. You can use advanced satellites to keep track of the Xenon side of the gate to know when it is safe, as they are not attacked.

[Karmaticdamage]

Snake can be made to fly in reverse faster then xenon capital ships can fly forward, they literally can't touch you, just kite them to death. Every destroyer maingun and L plasma cannon can out range xenon L turrets. One snake can kill an infinite number of Ks and Is, because they can't catch you. Syn is slow and has very few M turrets for flak, snake is a far more versatile solo boat.

[Sirus5]

I would fly into it with an Asguard personally. One shot the xenon capitals. Mop up the S and M ships with your turrets. Once gate is clear just fly them straight there.

Syn might also work if flown personally but can have issues if it gets stripped by the fighters.

Sending 5 or so PAR, SPL or TER destroyers would also work unless an I is involved.

You can also wait it out. Often those Xenon fleets guarding gates will leave their position to either attack or defend else where, that is when you fly in. You can use advanced satellites to keep track of the Xenon side of the gate to know when it is safe, as they are not attacked.

Interesting - thanks - Obviously as I currently only have the Free Ody and am just thinking of a Rattlesnake,
The Asguard is out of the question until I have lots more money etc...
Advanced Satellite - Cool - that could be useful info.

I actually went in through Matrix #9 and got through without many problems
Am now saving up and sending supplies to the Zyarth Shipyard in preparation for a Rattlesnake

Thanks Guys

[Imperial Good]

Snake can be made to fly in reverse faster then xenon capital ships can fly forward

Only if you are very lucky with as good as perfect rolls. Otherwise they will slightly out speed you while you are in reverse. You can of course drift backwards faster than they can fly but so can most destroyers. That said the Rattlesnake is agile enough to dodge single Is and move to favourable attack positions against multiple Ks.

One snake can kill an infinite number of Ks and Is, because they can't catch you.

Rattlesnake can be overwelmed between S/M ship spam and Xenon capitals using their travel mode to get into melee range. Unlike the Syn, if the Rattlesnake is in melee range it is pretty much dead due to its paper shields. Once had this happen to me before Cradle of Humanity where my high rolled modded Rattlesnake was nearly killed due to a K traveling into it as I was trying to intercept.

Syn is slow and has very few M turrets for flak

But it has significantly more L turrets and 2 extra shields making it considerably more tanky. Where as the Rattlesnake has to be careful not to take too many Gravaton hits, a Syn can fly straight at a K and win without a single point of hull damage.

[Sirus5]

Well, that told me didn't it

Interesting - I guess "Perfect Rolls" means roll of the dice when modding -
Rather than rolls as in aircraft aerobatics - Can't imagine a Snake doing Rolls

Soo - Now good sirs, you have put me in a dilemma - I badly want to keep my
Litigious Rodent's IFF as it's so fun, but I also want a Syn - and to get my free Syn
I have to get further in the plot which means no IFF -

Sigh what does a poor pilot have to do to get both things -
I suppose I could make myself a shipyard, buy the plans and build some Syn's
but that's far away at the moment as I am only a bit more than 24 hours in .

[jlehtone]

If you board a Syn, then you have a Syn. No idea whether Terrans will respond by sending exterminator to handle your vermin issue, or will they stay clear of you.

[Sirus5]

My Vermin Problem

[Karmaticdamage]

Snake can be made to fly in reverse faster then xenon capital ships can fly forward

Only if you are very lucky with as good as perfect rolls. Otherwise they will slightly out speed you while you are in reverse. You can of course drift backwards faster than they can fly but so can most destroyers. That said the Rattlesnake is agile enough to dodge single Is and move to favourable attack positions against multiple Ks.

One snake can kill an infinite number of Ks and Is, because they can't catch you.

Rattlesnake can be overwelmed between S/M ship spam and Xenon capitals using their travel mode to get into melee range. Unlike the Syn, if the Rattlesnake is in melee range it is pretty much dead due to its paper shields. Once had this happen to me before Cradle of Humanity where my high rolled modded Rattlesnake was nearly killed due to a K traveling into it as I was trying to intercept.

Syn is slow and has very few M turrets for flak

But it has significantly more L turrets and 2 extra shields making it considerably more tanky. Where as the Rattlesnake has to be careful not to take too many Gravaton hits, a Syn can fly straight at a K and win without a single point of hull damage.

I've never been overwhelmed when clearing out entire xenon reigons with a solo snake, I've taken on battle groups with 10+ capitals and hundreds of Ms/Ps and didn't take a scratch. I also put slashered argon flak on my snake, so that could be why the fighter clouds pose no threat. Snake shields start weak but they can be boosted up to 170k with terran mk3 shield and 70% shield hp mod, more then enough. All split ships are much better now thanks to terran shields.
Syn has two more L turrets then snake which I wouldn't call significant, but gives up 8 M turrets for it. The extra L turrets aren't going to do much if their being using for fighter defense, Snake doesn't have to sacrifice anti capital dps to defend itself from fighters. The syn is the most specialized and least versatile destroyer in the game, it shines as a capital killer with 8 L plasma, but it is the worst anti fighter platform.
You don't need god rolls to get a snake to go faster in reverse, 20% or better on drag from nanotube mod and 40% forward thrust from nudger will provide the results needed and are not hard to reroll for. Of course you could just turn around and fly forward a little bit if you feel the xenon capitals are getting to close, they won't use their travel drives to get closer to you if you're kiting them at L plasma range.

[Sirus5]

WOW -

So - Love all, 15-0, 15-15.... Deuce.... We have a tennis match going on

Thanks to both of you - some interesting facts are coming out and I am sure
that in fact both of you are right in lots of ways and each reply is well thought
out and valid.

1. Rattlesnake - Faster, more fragile - more capable against lots of fighters
2. Syn - much tankier, can go melee with anything without a scratch.

I salute both the protagonists here as I have gained valuable information from both
and unfortunately as I am not anything like as good as either of these amazing people -
I will have to go get both ships

[Imperial Good]

Soo - Now good sirs, you have put me in a dilemma - I badly want to keep my
Litigious Rodent's IFF as it's so fun, but I also want a Syn - and to get my free Syn
I have to get further in the plot which means no IFF -

IFF? You mean the Yaki camo? Litigious Rodent? You mean the Yaki ship?

I've taken on battle groups with 10+ capitals and hundreds of Ms/Ps and didn't take a scratch.

Never seen 10 Ks/Is at same area. Largest I have seen is 5Ks and 2 Is which were overlapping wings.

The Ps especially wear down the Rattlesnake due to the poor shielding on it and them focusing turrets. If you Pitch chase them they generally cannot hit you but that leaves you vulnerable to Ks and Is who are not trying to orbit you.

Snake shields start weak but they can be boosted up to 170k with terran mk3 shield and 70% shield hp mod, more then enough.

While the Syn can have over twice the shield with 3 times the regen by using balanced shield boost mods. Even single Gravaton turrets do nothing, needing at least 2 constantly firing to start to lower shield.

Syn has two more L turrets then snake which I wouldn't call significant, but gives up 8 M turrets for it.

It has 4 more forward facing L turrets than Rattlesnake. Where as Rattlesnake might get 5 turrets shooting straight (4 from front, 1 at top or bottom of back which is not reliable to aim), the Syn has no issue getting all 8 shooting straight. Well worth losing some weak M turrets for.

M turrets are also pretty weak now. They usually are the first to go when you kill a capital due to the explosion damage. My poor Asguard engineers can attest to this after rebuilding all the M turrets on it hundreds of times as every module killed strips most of them.

The extra L turrets aren't going to do much if their being using for fighter defense, Snake doesn't have to sacrifice anti capital dps to defend itself from fighters.

Snake has to sacrifice battery damage to defend itself from fighter swarms, like all destroyers, as turrets just are that inaccurate. Only the Asguard and Raptor (XL ships) can trade all turrets for good fighter protection due to their huge size creating a wall of fire that covers the inaccuracy.

The syn is the most specialized and least versatile destroyer in the game, it shines as a capital killer with 8 L plasma, but it is the worst anti fighter platform.

Unless you use the main batteries. Its long shape means that the AI love to circle right in front of the main batteries. Can easily solo swarms like that, turrets giving minimal help as usual due to inaccuracy.

You don't need god rolls to get a snake to go faster in reverse, 20% or better on drag from nanotube mod and 40% forward thrust from nudger will provide the results needed and are not hard to reroll for. Of course you could just turn around and fly forward a little bit if you feel the xenon capitals are getting to close, they won't use their travel drives to get closer to you if you're kiting them at L plasma range.

Except the I. Which flies faster than the K and has a huge speed when turning (due to its length).

I used the Rattlesnake a lot. I even have a video where I blow up dozens of Ks/Is with them. It certainly is capable of killing both the K and I. However Syn is such an upgrade from it, and that is using TER only equipment as well. Syn can just fly into a K without a care.

Then you get the Asguard and you realise how trash the Rattlesnake was. 10km kill of K is 2 seconds of beam. Like playing with cheat codes but legitimate unmodified. A single K even struggles to damage the Asguard. Let us not forget it can one shot an I.

1. Rattlesnake - Faster, more fragile - more capable against lots of fighters

It is less capable against lots of fighters due to its low shield regen. 3x the number of shields is huge. A single fighter with Plasma will start to wear down your Rattlesnake shields, as was seen in my video playthrough where a support Rattlesnake was badly damaged by some plot Paranid fighters. Not so much for the Syn, especially since you can afford to use balanced capacity/regen mods.

[Karmaticdamage]

Keep forgetting one thing over and over. Argon M flak with slasher mod installed. It's broken op, it makes fighters irrelevant, that is why the snake is better for solo then the syn. Not because of main guns or L turrets or shields or speed, but because the snake can equip more argon flak then the syn can. The same reason the osaka is better for solo then a syn. Osaka with its two main guns and three L plasma and ten flak is a great solo boat if you need more shields.
Snake can have 4 main guns and 4 L plasma facing forward which will do a lot more dps then syns three guns, while still having 12 flak cannons and 2 L turrets equipped with w/e for fighter defense. Ter L beams along with every other anti fighter L turret are crap. The best of the lot is split L pulse but even it is sub standard when compared to M flak or even M pulse. Maybe get on the horn and get ego to bring back the starburst shockwave cannon so rp terrans too can enjoy op anti fighter weapons.

[Imperial Good]

I used Argon M Flak. Outside of the clear double dipping damage bug (which will hopefully be fixed some day, same reason Blast Mortars obsolete S Plasma guns as they deal double encyclopaedia damage against targets in high attention) they suffer the same problem as other turrets do. They really destroy fighters at maximum range, but anywhere between or outside you might be better off using bolt, which hits surprisingly well now.

ke can have 4 main guns and 4 L plasma facing forward which will do a lot more dps then syns three guns, while still having 12 flak cannons and 2 L turrets equipped with w/e for fighter defense.

The damage difference is not as much as you might think. Not only are Terran batteries higher DPS than Split, but due to there being 3 they cooldown more efficiently. Average damage is pretty close.

Ter L beams along with every other anti fighter L turret are crap.

Tell that to my Slasher TER L Bolt turrets. Murder Ks and fighters no problem. The only signifcant anti-fighter defence my Asguard has and unsurprisingly neither KHK or XEN can overwhelm it. Especially since Ks are dead instantly due to the XL main battery.

They have issues hitting targets on the Syn due to its small profile. However I suspect that might be a bug. Same reason L lasers are not melting S ships like they should due to missing them.

The best of the lot is split L pulse but even it is sub standard when compared to M flak or even M pulse.

TER L pulse is also pretty good. Lower average damage than bolt but at 1200 MJ damage per hit one cannot really complain.