Early game might be more fun

[rubahax4]

In my opinion, from the beginning of the game, we get ships, stations too quickly. Indeed, in the real world, hardly anyone would be hired as assistants or captains to an unknown person, and build.
I think the limitation of recruiting personnel from the reputation of the faction will force the player to engage in manual trade and mining at the initial stage.
Also,
you can add free mercenaries (not from factions), for example, in bars. Maybe pirates.

[zdan30]

I do agree but it might not be for everyone, maybe it could be a game start option added to the new custom starts, more options in the custom starts can only be a good thing to let everyone play the game the way they want too

[xant]

If it is too fast for you, maybe you should slow down a bit, instead of thinking about adding more hurdles and obstacles?

I would find it highly problematic if I had to play for hours and days to grind rep, having to go through many hoops only to hire someone or to afford a single ship or enough material for two or three station modules. Yes, I get it, there's a market for masochistic players enjoying games like stone quarry simulator, in which the gameplay is as slow, repetitive and painful as work in a real life quarry. Some people find fun in that. I'm not here to judge.

But, as it is, starting a game in X4 has never been as hard as it is now, since many early money-makers were nerfed. I'd say we're already at a point where new players might find the game too hard and lose interest. X4 is a niche game, there's no need to make things worse.

So, should you seek a more challenging start, you can use the new custom start and create a scenario that isn't easy. If you want to hire neutral pilots/crew, then walk around neutral stations and hire them manually. That's already possible, it just isn't mandatory. And I'm glad it isn't. It should stay that way.

I'm against drawn out gameplay. It isn't fun.

(I write all that not to offend you, but because the Devs read the forums. I want them to know that not everybody thinks the game is too easy.)

[jlehtone]

I think the limitation of recruiting personnel from the reputation of the faction will force the player to engage in manual trade and mining at the initial stage.

Typical rant is how difficult it is to get pilots that can auto-trade. You want even less.

There are at least three types of players:
* New players, who already have so hard time that many of them go play something else
* Seasoned veterans, who like the start phase (and restart before the endgame)
* Seasoned veterans, who skip the start phase

[GCU Grey Area]

Sounds like an interesting idea for a self-imposed rule, might do something like that in my next game. Don't think it should be more than that though. Don't think it should be a default part of the game, any more than my own rules (e.g. only buy from my faction, only steal from enemies, only use my own faction's gear, etc) should be inflicted on other people, no matter how much they improve my enjoyment of the game.

[Raevyan]

If it is too fast for you, maybe you should slow down a bit, instead of thinking about adding more hurdles and obstacles?

I would find it highly problematic if I had to play for hours and days to grind rep, having to go through many hoops only to hire someone or to afford a single ship or enough material for two or three station modules. Yes, I get it, there's a market for masochistic players enjoying games like stone quarry simulator, in which the gameplay is as slow, repetitive and painful as work in a real life quarry. Some people find fun in that. I'm not here to judge.

But, as it is, starting a game in X4 has never been as hard as it is now, since many early money-makers were nerfed. I'd say we're already at a point where new players might find the game too hard and lose interest. X4 is a niche game, there's no need to make things worse.

So, should you seek a more challenging start, you can use the new custom start and create a scenario that isn't easy. If you want to hire neutral pilots/crew, then walk around neutral stations and hire them manually. That's already possible, it just isn't mandatory. And I'm glad it isn't. It should stay that way.

I'm against drawn out gameplay. It isn't fun.

(I write all that not to offend you, but because the Devs read the forums. I want them to know that not everybody thinks the game is too easy.)

The game still isn‘t hard at all. Just because you get less money for certain things now, doesn’t make it harder. It just takes more time. It’s still super easy to make a lot of money very fast in the game. E.g. in my try to get back into X4 with 4.10 I just sit in Nopileos Fortune with 2 Demeters full of marines and captured Hokkaidos from PIO and TER. Every 3-4min one miner captured, that could be sold or used.
The whole thing made me thinking, why I was able to do this for hours and hours without seeing an end to PIO or TER miners popping up in that sector. The game does seem to spawn ships around the player to make it feel alive. I watched the same sector from oos and saw barely any traffic but as soon as I went IS suddenly all sorts of traders, miners and builder came in.

[xant]

The game still isn‘t hard at all. Just because you get less money for certain things now, doesn’t make it harder. It just takes more time. It’s still super easy to make a lot of money very fast in the game. E.g. in my try to get back into X4 with 4.10 I just sit in Nopileos Fortune with 2 Demeters full of marines and captured Hokkaidos from PIO and TER. Every 3-4min one miner captured, that could be sold or used.
The whole thing made me thinking, why I was able to do this for hours and hours without seeing an end to PIO or TER miners popping up in that sector. The game does seem to spawn ships around the player to make it feel alive. I watched the same sector from oos and saw barely any traffic but as soon as I went IS suddenly all sorts of traders, miners and builder came in.

You're right about everything you said, including the encounter mechanic (yes, that's a thing).

I just want to add a few thoughts: hard doesn't have to mean more challenging. Hard can also mean 'demanding' as far as your personal time is concerned. Not everyone has the time to sit through a game that unnecessarily progresses in slow motion. If you can't get anywhere progress-wise within a few hours of your time (assuming you play the game in a normal and natural way), the game becomes hard, tedious and repetitive. The lack of a challenge makes it even worse.

Of course, you can cheese the system once you know how. But this isn't intuitive gameplay for new players. It also isn't a viable way for those who show enough self-control not to cheat themselves out of their own fun.

[Ormac]

In my opinion, from the beginning of the game, we get ships, stations too quickly. Indeed, in the real world, hardly anyone would be hired as assistants or captains to an unknown person, and build.
I think the limitation of recruiting personnel from the reputation of the faction will force the player to engage in manual trade and mining at the initial stage.
Also,
you can add free mercenaries (not from factions), for example, in bars. Maybe pirates.

Trading as a Player where they pilot the ship, purchase wares, and sell those wares at a profit is trickier in X4 than in the earlier games. The reservation system doesn't recognise the player only their NPC representitives. A profitable location isn't always guaranteed. I think it's been moved to a mid game level or player style choice when they have more information available or more capital to hold the inventory longer to find that profitable sale. I don't think it can be easily returned to a early game phase.

[Inkizit0r]

Did you check for any existing mods making everything (components, ressources, ships, ...) more expensive ?
I think that this kind of mod already exists.
That could maybe be a possible idea.

[grapedog]

A lot of these ideas to make the game way easier, like reverting the shipyard and crystal nerfs, or more difficult in various ways like taxes or reputation grinding...

I think they're all valid ideas, and I'd love to see everyone get their wish... but if they are added in, should be added in with custom gamestarts.

It would be very cool to see a lot of these ideas as toggles in the custom gamestart menu, so we could really tailor our chosen experiences much more.

[Diroc]

Find what you like to do and do it.
I don't have a full production chain this go round.
I produce Energy cells, Food, Med supplies, Terran goods and drugs (Which have a limited market)
My shipyard imports almost everything. (Didn't like the long shipping runs for producing Terran Shields.)

Not to say I don't have massive shipyard complexes already saved from previous playthroughs.
I play the way i do because having billions of credits is rather boring.
Terraforming was added as a money sink.
I just don't go down that route.

If you want a challenge, Steal and Sell ships for fun and profit (Income)... With a fighter not a vast collection of disposeable marines.
A self sufficient factory/megashipyard is a license to print money.
I set up 1 autotrader after hundreds of hours in. I had the means to set up many well before that.
I have 1 ship that I put upgrades on. Definitely not for lack of components.
Put a stop to the Asgard raids and wall off a section of Xenon sectors so you have a playground and AI factions have a sink for excess ships.
There are plenty of options if you are creative.

Your lack of restraint with regards to the "Easy button" seems to have left you with a lack of "Challenge"
That's not something Egosoft needs to fix.
It's something you need to fix.

The game is plenty hard for new people.
For seasoned veterans, There's plenty of challenging ways play.
Learning the easy ways to make money early on is great.
Learning the ways to avoid using them later on is great too.
I suspect you have plenty of learning ahead of you.

[dtpsprt]

A lot of these ideas to make the game way easier, like reverting the shipyard and crystal nerfs, or more difficult in various ways like taxes or reputation grinding...

I think they're all valid ideas, and I'd love to see everyone get their wish... but if they are added in, should be added in with custom gamestarts.

It would be very cool to see a lot of these ideas as toggles in the custom gamestart menu, so we could really tailor our chosen experiences much more.

+1 to that...

Personally I have "reverted" to playing without CoH for, at least, 4 game days and then I let the pesky Terrans in, when I am well able to cap their pesky Agards and Syn for profit!!!

[Malchar]

Most if not all idea I saw in this post would not make the game harder, but just longer. It is what egosoft did lowering dratically ressources in most sectors.

You are never in danger to loose. Nothing and nobody will destroy your bases. There is no risk of bankrut for you. You have all the time you want.

Where is the difficulty ? There is none, imo. Tax, harder reputation grinding, compo or ships more expensive will just delay the time when you will reach your objective, and may be, will be an incitation to use seta.

[Tomonor]

Compared to earlier titles of the X-series (X-BtF to X3 Reunion) the advancement truly is fast paced, at least it is since X3TC.

This is not necessarily a bad thing, because in X2 for example, you had to grind weeks to get a proper single ship. Here, you can decide if you want to keep that grinding on and become rich, or relax and let the game unfold by itself. I think this is the better alternative so it doesn't alienate new players away who aren't patient.

[Clownmug]

I might be a shady unknown employer but at least I give them purpose and a place to live for the rest of their existence.

[Y-llian]

The game-pace between v1 and v4 is huge. Things happen much slower now on a number of fronts, on the whole I’m ok with that. But I don’t think we need to slow things down even further. When I find some game time, I’d like to make at least some meaningful progress before work, family, study etc. has to take priority again.

That said, l have no objections for more options in the custom game starts to slow down game-pace for those players who wish it.

[humility925]

Slow grind isn't fun at all for me, and even this game is fast pace than older X-3 and X-2, still little boring because slow and grind, Once had lot of million and billion, than fun start, like building and design station, while early game you unable to do anything, you had to grind it, then final to get autominer, then same thing reinvestment many time again in autominer because building station and fleet is too costly, it's take more than whole week, then once I get 200,000,000 million per real 8 hour a day (I left game running while I'm going to work and sleep) Once you had million/billion it's fun to plan, design, but before that it's not fun due you unable or not had ability to build station and fleet, and you had to grind, grind to get auto miner, then it's not enough, so grind more and more till you had 60 auto miner in couple of real day, then finaly you start to had fun playing build station (I roleplaying good guy, not hack or steal blueprint but buy every blueprint even already reseached of hacking and little to none force combat as I am more force on management of empire/fleet)

Early game is less fun, while had a billion credit to build fleet/station is more fun for me than early game.

I'm more of captain/commander/manager in very large ship rather than pilot in small ship fan.

[surferx]

I have just hit 4K hrs on X4, I'm on my 3rd gamestart which I began when COH was released. I've never crafted SETA , never mined crystals or most anything that IMO is an easy money grab. There are also many other restrictions I impose on my gameplay. There are a lot of good ideas in this thread which I do - hiring my own pilots, buying equipment strictly from the ship's faction. And much more.
The game is designed for quick and easy play, or if you prefer, for the long haul. I don't think either style is wrong but I feel sorry for the players who favor rapid progression. I think they are cheating themselves out of some rewarding gameplay. Maybe also suffering from ADHD?

Your lack of restraint with regards to the "Easy button" seems to have left you with a lack of "Challenge"
That's not something Egosoft needs to fix.
It's something you need to fix.

Agreed, there is no need for Egosoft to step in and try to make the game fit an easy or difficult play style.

[peteran]

Most if not all idea I saw in this post would not make the game harder, but just longer. It is what egosoft did lowering dratically ressources in most sectors.

You are never in danger to loose. Nothing and nobody will destroy your bases. There is no risk of bankrut for you. You have all the time you want.

Where is the difficulty ? There is none, imo. Tax, harder reputation grinding, compo or ships more expensive will just delay the time when you will reach your objective, and may be, will be an incitation to use seta.

Getting the game balance right is tricky. How will you keep new players in the game at the same time as the experienced ones?

I agree that there is a problem with the universe as such never (mostly) penalizing experienced players and that needs fixing. Somehow. Perhaps the next DLC will bring us some challenges.

[Malchar]

Perhaps the next DLC will bring us some challenges.

Next dlc is about piracy. I presume you will be able to be pirate yourself, or if pirates will be more active and disturbe your economy to slowdown a bit more.

... AH, and I had forgetted ; It will probably release a new ship so OP and disbalanced that every players will want to have it. It is a populist marketing thing which works each time.