Turrets

[builder680]

Is there any point to using anything but Plasma for L and Flak for M turrets? Even the Flak is ridiculously inacurrate, but at least the Argon version is explosive, so you MIGHT get some damage out of them. It feels like tracking in general is just awful. I read that split flak is higher dps but I don't know if that's true.

ETA: yes I know there are threads related to this, but specifically, why would I use anything other than these turrets aside from being barred behind reputation unlocks? Are there better options?

[mr.WHO]

Yes, if you min-max'ing then Plasma and Flak combo is the optimal one far beyond the rest.


For large turrets:
Pulse - suppose to be anti-M weapon, but NPC M-size ships doesn't pose much of a thread.
Beam - suppose to be anti-S weapon, but smaller turrets, especially with flaks do the job as good, so usually there is very little point in adding large beams (unless it's a terran warship like Syn).
Bolt - unique terran weapon, with lower dammage than Plasma, but suprisingly good in taking out surface elements (you don't need to hurry with huge DPS, if enemy cannot fire back).

For small turrets:
Beam - anti drone, anti-S
Pulse - anti-S
Bolt - anti-M
Plasma - secondary anti-cap weapons

Sometimes I do install small plasma turrets on my dedicated anti-capships, but yeah, for most of the time, flaks do their job fine anti-everything.

[Imperial Good]

ETA: yes I know there are threads related to this, but specifically, why would I use anything other than these turrets aside from being barred behind reputation unlocks? Are there better options?

L Bolt turrets are Terran so can be made much more simply using the Terran recipes. Terrans have no L Plasma turrets so as far as easily mass-producible heavy hitting turrets goes this is the best you can do. L bolt turrets might not deal the most damage, but they are capable of hitting S and M sized ships some of the time. Given how much damage they deal, S ships quickly lose their shields and hull. L Plasma turrets cannot do this at all as they stand practically no chance of hitting anything small and moving.

L pulse laser is the other faction alternative to L bolts for hitting S and M sized ships but is much weaker when it comes to L and bigger targets. Also the cheapest turret to produce.

L laser is all about killing S sized ships. It does not deal much damage, but neither do S ships have much shield and hull. Note that currently (4.10) these are less accurate than they should be as there is at least one bug relating to them missing targets flying in a straight line.

L missile turrets are all about the ammo capacity. As far as DPS goes they are not any better than M missile turrets, but they have huge ammo capacity bonuses. This makes them useful for missile based L and XL ships such as the Osaka or Raptor as they help extend operational time between restocks. I would not recommend them for L turret based ships like the Syn or Asguard.

As far as M turrets go there are few racial differences. Usually you want argon M turrets because they turn significantly faster than the other races. Terran M turrets can be made with the simple Terran wares so are useful for efficient mass production.

M pulse is cheap and accurate making it good for filling slots in non-combat ships. Even in combat ships it is (should be...) accurate enough to deal damage to S and M ships. It also is long range giving good protection coverage.

M laser is only really good for keeping S and M ships from regenerating shield. Between its pathetic damage and low range it really under performs. Maybe missile defence, but that is not a common use case to encounter. I recommend not using these.

M chain bolt trades range and accuracy of pulse laser for decent damage. It seems that recent patches have significantly improved the accuracy of these landing some hits, with them having almost flak like properties. I now recommend these for combat ships in general when flak is not an option. This is the best option for general combat if using Terran construction materials.

M flak is probably better than it should be. Last I checked there was a bug causing the turrets to deal double damage due to both the AoE and impact applying damage to the target. This makes flak the go combat turret. SPL flak is in theory higher damage and the larger spread should allow more hits against ships, but it is unclear if they even have splash damage due to missing artwork. Cannot really go wrong with ARG flak.

M plasma is the pure siege damage option as it deals significant damage. However it is utterly useless at hitting S and M ships. As such this can only be used on specialist ships that will either not encounter S or M resistance, or that are accompanied by ships that can deal with such attackers. Many people have claimed great success using a Raptor in full L and M plasma turret loadout for killing stations, destroyers and even battleships like the Branch 9 I, since the Raptor can launch a swarm of S ships to deal with any S or M interference.

M missile turrets are basically a requirement for missile based destroyers. If you want to go missiles, might as well cover the entire ship with them. Around 1.00 this was the go to turret for dealing a lot of damage but since the buffs to plasma damage and range as well as the nerfs to missile range and targeting and even the pain of having to micro restocks this is often overlooked. In theory something like a Raptor covered in missile turrets could deal silly amounts of damage and quickly strip all hard points off a target, if/when the turrets decide to fire.

Both M and L mining turrets are for mining efficiency only. As such solid miners should equip them on every capable slot. They should not be available to equip on non-solid mining ships.

[builder680]

ETA: yes I know there are threads related to this, but specifically, why would I use anything other than these turrets aside from being barred behind reputation unlocks? Are there better options?

... reply

Impressively informational post. Seriously. Props.

But in the end... I basically resort to a missile supply micro-management game, or keep going as I am, and ignore all that. That really sucks.

[Panos]

ETA: yes I know there are threads related to this, but specifically, why would I use anything other than these turrets aside from being barred behind reputation unlocks? Are there better options?

... reply

Impressively informational post. Seriously. Props.

But in the end... I basically resort to a missile supply micro-management game, or keep going as I am, and ignore all that. That really sucks.

I wonder if we can do resupply of missiles with repeat orders
That will automate the process.

[GCU Grey Area]

Is there any point to using anything but Plasma for L and Flak for M turrets?

I generally use a mix of L Beam + M Bolt for my capitals (L Beam + L Bolt in a 50/50 mix for Asgards & Syns). Prefer to keep my destroyers at main gun range from their targets (& often extend that range by a few km using Expediter mods) so there's little point installing L Plasma - they rarely go close enough to use them. I like L Beam for it's pinpoint accuracy - if there's an S/M ship within about 5km it's taking continuous damage & can't regen it's shields. If it comes within about 3km the M Bolts kick in to shred whatever's left. There are other viable options for the M's using this approach, I just like M Bolt for it's range, rate of fire & overall aesthetics, particularly the sound they make.

[Lord Crc]

... lots of info...

Excellent info, thanks!

[Malchar]

Both M and L mining turrets are for mining efficiency only. As such solid miners should equip them on every capable slot. They should not be available to equip on non-solid mining ships.

I did it before the v4.0, however Kha ak activity made me change that. I now fill medium miners turret slots with war turrets. These mining ships are mostly teladis mano, until all my mining ships become large ones.

But in the end... I basically resort to a missile supply micro-management game, or keep going as I am, and ignore all that. That really sucks.

Small things here, missiles are ignored, mostly because of painful supply.


Otherwise I never use beam, and certainly not large beam turret ; it is a waste. Fact beam is considered ingame like the high end, is something difficult to understand for me.

[Zloth2]

No mention of shards at all?

I like using them as main guns (I've got auto-aim turned off, so the damage spread helps). But for turrets, I'm thinking everything they do, flak can do better. I still put them on station turrets sometimes, just for variety.

[Imperial Good]

No mention of shards at all?

Ops... Forgot.

People have reported that they are pretty decent against S and M ships on something like the Raptor since every wave at least some shots will land. The main issue is that they have very poor range and unless hitting something big their damage is not likely to be better than chain bolt and certainly not flak. Their main use is on player flown M corvettes operating at close range. Since then most shots will hit the target so they will deal more damage than chain bolt, but again flak will deal yet more damage due to double dipping.

[GCU Grey Area]

No mention of shards at all?

I've sometimes used them on M ships, particularly those such as Peregrine where all 4 turrets can fire forwards against a single target. Essentially creates a wall of shrapnel for the enemy to fly through. Works even better if main guns are Shards too. Found them not so useful on bigger ships though. Think the problem here is poor range, enemy fighters just don't spend long enough that close to the hull of a capital for them to be all that effective. Think you get better value out of the longer range M turrets for anti-fighter defences on capitals.

[Karmaticdamage]

Is there any point to using anything but Plasma for L and Flak for M turrets? Even the Flak is ridiculously inacurrate, but at least the Argon version is explosive, so you MIGHT get some damage out of them. It feels like tracking in general is just awful. I read that split flak is higher dps but I don't know if that's true.

ETA: yes I know there are threads related to this, but specifically, why would I use anything other than these turrets aside from being barred behind reputation unlocks? Are there better options?

Split flak fires faster but does less damage per shot then argon, but higher over all dps if every shot connects. Argon flak has longer range, better tracking, and higher projectile velocity, making it far better for capital ships to use. Split flak is better on M sized ships where you can get the entire volley to connect. As for alternatives, missile turrets are the only real substitute, if you're willing to deal with the logistics.

[builder680]

Is there any point to using anything but Plasma for L and Flak for M turrets? Even the Flak is ridiculously inacurrate, but at least the Argon version is explosive, so you MIGHT get some damage out of them. It feels like tracking in general is just awful. I read that split flak is higher dps but I don't know if that's true.

ETA: yes I know there are threads related to this, but specifically, why would I use anything other than these turrets aside from being barred behind reputation unlocks? Are there better options?

Split flak fires faster but does less damage per shot then argon, but higher over all dps if every shot connects. Argon flak has longer range, better tracking, and higher projectile velocity, making it far better for capital ships to use. Split flak is better on M sized ships where you can get the entire volley to connect. As for alternatives, missile turrets are the only real substitute, if you're willing to deal with the logistics.

Excellent info, thanks!

[Kajar]

Did some test runs a while ago.
M turret test.
Behemoth with M turrets only, against 10 Xenon M.

ARG Flak is by far the best anti-fighter turret. Kills 10 Xenon M in 3-4 minutes.
SPL Flak is much less accurate and will miss most of its shots. It doesn't even compare to the ARG flak in effective damage. After 10 minutes, 4 Xenon M are alive and the turrets are destroyed.
Pulse is the best turret if one doesn't has access to ARG Flak. After 10 minutes, 2 Xenon M are alive, some of the turrets have been destroyed.
Bolt is too slow, too inaccurate and too little damage on the projectiles and turned out to perform very badly. After 10 minutes, 8 Xenon M survived, all turrets destroyed.
Beam is purely missile defence. Damage is too low for anything else. After 10 minutes, 2 Xenon M at 50% hull. All turrets destroyed.
Shard the most useless turret. Even less effective damage output than the beam. After 10 minutes, 1 Xenon M at 50% hull. All turrets destroyed.
Plasma doesn't even engage fighters.

Light Smart missile turrets obliterate the fighters in 1-2 minutes. 90 of 240 missiles remain.
Light Heat/Guided destroy all targets after 2 minutes, borderline firing the entire ammo load. Flares are quite useful.
Light Swarm only destroy 5 Xenon M due to the missiles group-flight-pattern missing the target most of the time.

L turret test.
Syn with L turrets only, against 10 Xenon M

Beam took about 6-8 minutes to destroy all targets. Terran Beam was consistently 1 minute faster. Probably faster if they wouldn't miss half their shots.
Pulse works extremely well. Most pulse turrets take 4-5 minutes. Split pulse only takes 3 minutes to destroy all Xenon M, probably due to a good mix of damage and rate of fire. Oddly the terran pulse performed the worst at 6 minutes.
Terran bolt, even more surprisngly, took only 4 minutes to destroy all targets. While the projectile is on the slower end, it is a big projectile with a good mix of damage and rate of fire.

Testing turrets on M ships is a little harder since they tend to die before i can get any useful results.

Also not the turrets, and especially M turrets, turn insanely quickly and the rotation speed difference between the factions can effectively be ignored. Thus i recommend going with the stronger hull turret variants.

Overall, turrets are on the weaker side and capital ships need a fighter escort, else their combat effectiveness might suffer quite a bit. Well, aside from the Raptor. With that many guns you can delete everything.

[builder680]

Did some test runs a while ago.
M turret test.
Behemoth with M turrets only, against 10 Xenon M.

ARG Flak is by far the best anti-fighter turret. Kills 10 Xenon M in 3-4 minutes.
SPL Flak is much less accurate and will miss most of its shots. It doesn't even compare to the ARG flak in effective damage. After 10 minutes, 4 Xenon M are alive and the turrets are destroyed.
Pulse is the best turret if one doesn't has access to ARG Flak. After 10 minutes, 2 Xenon M are alive, some of the turrets have been destroyed.
Bolt is too slow, too inaccurate and too little damage on the projectiles and turned out to perform very badly. After 10 minutes, 8 Xenon M survived, all turrets destroyed.
Beam is purely missile defence. Damage is too low for anything else. After 10 minutes, 2 Xenon M at 50% hull. All turrets destroyed.
Shard the most useless turret. Even less effective damage output than the beam. After 10 minutes, 1 Xenon M at 50% hull. All turrets destroyed.
Plasma doesn't even engage fighters.

Light Smart missile turrets obliterate the fighters in 1-2 minutes. 90 of 240 missiles remain.
Light Heat/Guided destroy all targets after 2 minutes, borderline firing the entire ammo load. Flares are quite useful.
Light Swarm only destroy 5 Xenon M due to the missiles group-flight-pattern missing the target most of the time.

L turret test.
Syn with L turrets only, against 10 Xenon M

Beam took about 6-8 minutes to destroy all targets. Terran Beam was consistently 1 minute faster. Probably faster if they wouldn't miss half their shots.
Pulse works extremely well. Most pulse turrets take 4-5 minutes. Split pulse only takes 3 minutes to destroy all Xenon M, probably due to a good mix of damage and rate of fire. Oddly the terran pulse performed the worst at 6 minutes.
Terran bolt, even more surprisngly, took only 4 minutes to destroy all targets. While the projectile is on the slower end, it is a big projectile with a good mix of damage and rate of fire.

Testing turrets on M ships is a little harder since they tend to die before i can get any useful results.

Also not the turrets, and especially M turrets, turn insanely quickly and the rotation speed difference between the factions can effectively be ignored. Thus i recommend going with the stronger hull turret variants.

Overall, turrets are on the weaker side and capital ships need a fighter escort, else their combat effectiveness might suffer quite a bit. Well, aside from the Raptor. With that many guns you can delete everything.

This is impressive, thank you for sharing The bit about missile defense beams helped me see a use for them, and my suspicions about flak superiority were confirmed. Although I've followed the advice of another poster and started using SPL flak on M ships, and ARG flak on L/XL ships. Nice work, man.

[Karmaticdamage]

Overall, turrets are on the weaker side and capital ships need a fighter escort, else their combat effectiveness might suffer quite a bit. Well, aside from the Raptor. With that many guns you can delete everything.

Until you put slasher mod on them. Can get 50% dmg and 99% reload out of a good slasher roll. Put that on every arg flak and no fighter will ever touch your destroyer again.

[capitalduty]

Shard and beam M turrets needs urgent buffing IMO. Also some small damage/velocity increase for bolt m turret bullets could also make it viable at some situations especially against heavier small ships.