Removed from Debt thread

[sh4l0m]

Snark: In general the idea of a video game is that the game does what your imagination would otherwise have to do on it's own. I can 'house rule' that I win at solitaire as soon as I shuffle the deck, but it's a rather underwhelming experience.


As to claims that a debt mechanic would take thousands of hours to write or even be difficult. Two words - Four now. Six now. Try Again. Predictive Model. 16 words and a number - Absolutely ridiculous.

Make X payment at Y interval or suffer negrep with Z faction. Anybody paying a programmer for thousands of hours to write that surely needs big loans just for them to tie their laces.

Whether it's a gd idea or not, idk. The rate the factions throw away ships in one charge of the light brigade after another, you'd have to imagine the economies are all owned by Teladi bankers after a day with all the deficit spending going on

But WHY? It will cause more issues than it will solve. Possible you are the only person wanting this feature. No other game in my 30y of gaming has such feature because is very difficult to track, opening to too many bugs and issues.

If you want something like this, maybe you should have played EVE Online back in 2003-2008 era. With the proper player run bank, funded by shares and lottery tickets, proper debt collectors that could make your life impossible to even undock from a station and everything else on top.

I would lie and say I hate to be rude. But that'd be lying. You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. There are thousands of games in which a player or game component can have a negative balance.
Some of the biggest(that is to say well known) games ever have debts & loans.
'No other game' he says.. you ever heard of simcity? A game series, i'd add, whose later releases/expansions/features were mostly on the order of 'give me more challenging scenarios to start from.'

The concept of doing things a harder way after you've done it in a normal/easy way is so intrinsic to the gaming industry I have to think you're on medication or something - for you to make a claim that nobody is interested in such a thing. Really. The mind boggles.

It's just, it's what games ARE. A player succeeds at a game so they play somebody who is better at the game than their previous opponents to maintain the challenge. Have you really never heard of this concept in your 30yrs of experience? Are you Boron?

//


Further to the actual suggestion though. There is a parallel request to have more credits available in budgeted start, seems to me like a way to (arbitrarily, but w/e) do both without, perhaps, destroying any feeling of player limitation.

[Panos]

Snark: In general the idea of a video game is that the game does what your imagination would otherwise have to do on it's own. I can 'house rule' that I win at solitaire as soon as I shuffle the deck, but it's a rather underwhelming experience.


As to claims that a debt mechanic would take thousands of hours to write or even be difficult. Two words - Four now. Six now. Try Again. Predictive Model. 16 words and a number - Absolutely ridiculous.

Make X payment at Y interval or suffer negrep with Z faction. Anybody paying a programmer for thousands of hours to write that surely needs big loans just for them to tie their laces.

Whether it's a gd idea or not, idk. The rate the factions throw away ships in one charge of the light brigade after another, you'd have to imagine the economies are all owned by Teladi bankers after a day with all the deficit spending going on

But WHY? It will cause more issues than it will solve. Possible you are the only person wanting this feature. No other game in my 30y of gaming has such feature because is very difficult to track, opening to too many bugs and issues.

If you want something like this, maybe you should have played EVE Online back in 2003-2008 era. With the proper player run bank, funded by shares and lottery tickets, proper debt collectors that could make your life impossible to even undock from a station and everything else on top.

I would lie and say I hate to be rude. But that'd be lying. You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. There are thousands of games in which a player or game component can have a negative balance.
Some of the biggest(that is to say well known) games ever have debts & loans.
'No other game' he says.. you ever heard of simcity? A game series, i'd add, whose later releases/expansions/features were mostly on the order of 'give me more challenging scenarios to start from.'

The concept of doing things a harder way after you've done it in a normal/easy way is so intrinsic to the gaming industry I have to think you're on medication or something - for you to make a claim that nobody is interested in such a thing. Really. The mind boggles.

It's just, it's what games ARE. A player succeeds at a game so they play somebody who is better at the game than their previous opponents to maintain the challenge. Have you really never heard of this concept in your 30yrs of experience? Are you Boron?

//


Further to the actual suggestion though. There is a parallel request to have more credits available in budgeted start, seems to me like a way to (arbitrarily, but w/e) do both without, perhaps, destroying any feeling of player limitation.

OK tell those games that exist where you start in debt, because as far as I know there is NONE.
Prove me wrong, otherwise you are the liar.

[sh4l0m]

This isn't mythical china, you don't have to dig yourself a deeper hole just to avoid losing face.


Let's see - every single one in which you start with overheads/guaranteed costs which user action is required to mitigate to avoid failure. That includes hundreds & hundreds of team/business/social management games and their scenarios.

Other things with the same principle? Let's say.. 'oxygen not included,' you start with some oxygen, but it will rapidly be used and then your dudes will die. You cannot be idle, having to 'pay off' a mechanically induced debt.

The same principle again? Any game or game mode in which there is a race against time. That is to say, thousands of games.

In a soccer match, two teams can theoretically do nothing for 90 minutes. They do not because there is a projected debt (the results that other teams will get based on historic performances) which would see them relegated. Quite aside from the fact of it being boring to watch (and it's boring to watch because people like to entertain themselves with struggle(their own and that of others) and achievement against difficulty.)

[Panos]

This isn't mythical china, you don't have to dig yourself a deeper hole just to avoid losing face.


Let's see - every single one in which you start with overheads/guaranteed costs which user action is required to mitigate to avoid failure. That includes hundreds & hundreds of team/business/social management games and their scenarios.

Other things with the same principle? Let's say.. 'oxygen not included,' you start with some oxygen, but it will rapidly be used and then your dudes will die. You cannot be idle, having to 'pay off' a mechanically induced debt.

The same principle again? Any game or game mode in which there is a race against time. That is to say, thousands of games.

In a soccer match, two teams can theoretically do nothing for 90 minutes. They do not because there is a projected debt (the results that other teams will get based on historic performances) which would see them relegated. Quite aside from the fact of it being boring to watch (and it's boring to watch because people like to entertain themselves with struggle(their own and that of others) and achievement against difficulty.)

You called me a liar. So either take it back and apologize for the slandering or provide PROOF of what I asked you. And check the meaning of the word "libelous".

Also you need to understand what is a lie, what is an error and what is lack of knowledge on a subject. It will make you better person in real life.

[sh4l0m]

This isn't mythical china, you don't have to dig yourself a deeper hole just to avoid losing face.


Let's see - every single one in which you start with overheads/guaranteed costs which user action is required to mitigate to avoid failure. That includes hundreds & hundreds of team/business/social management games and their scenarios.

Other things with the same principle? Let's say.. 'oxygen not included,' you start with some oxygen, but it will rapidly be used and then your dudes will die. You cannot be idle, having to 'pay off' a mechanically induced debt.

The same principle again? Any game or game mode in which there is a race against time. That is to say, thousands of games.

In a soccer match, two teams can theoretically do nothing for 90 minutes. They do not because there is a projected debt (the results that other teams will get based on historic performances) which would see them relegated. Quite aside from the fact of it being boring to watch (and it's boring to watch because people like to entertain themselves with struggle(their own and that of others) and achievement against difficulty.)

You called me a liar. So either take it back or provide PROOF of what I asked you. And check the meaning of the word "libelous".

Also you need to understand what is a lie, what is an error and what is lack of knowledge on a subject. It will make you better person in real life.

I did to your first assertion, and then I did to your adjusted assertion.

As to the other part.

You attack somebody else's idea as ridiculous and pointless and claim it doesn't exist elsewhere in gaming because it's ridiculous & pointless. And then try to moralize about being a better person.

So first, you're dismissive, arrogant & wrong. Then you're a hypocrite & wrong.
Frankly, your attempt to dismiss clearly correct rebuttals of your own assertion not once but twice make the case that 'liar' is the best case, it's probably better than being so stupid you can't recognize that you're wrong.

And just fwiw. A charge of libel is indistinguishable from calling somebody a liar, it's meaning is to say '[they] published lies about.' Just for an added dose of hypocrisy I guess.

[CBJ]

That's more than enough of the personal stuff. Carry on like this and you will find yourself removed from the forum.