The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

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Poacher886
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The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by Poacher886 » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 09:19

Having started a new game, im still somewhat bemused that the Spacefly bug / exploit is still in place and free to use....

I used to think Crystal mining was a early game runiner and exploit (it still is), but pales in significance when compared to Spaceflys. There is simply no need to trade / mine or anything else in the game to quickly aquire a small fleet of small / Medium ships in a single gaming session by hoovering up Spaceflys!

I have started a new custom start in Argon prime, and the Asteroid field right next to the wharf is all i need. These 'rare' spaeflys which are typically found in the outer reached of the galaxy (or were in X3) , are the single most common object too be seen, as common as Lodstone and unstable crystal!! i literally cant scope them up faster than they appear within a 12k radius..typically in 2's thats 20k a pop EVERYWHERE!

But wait, their illegal, so the police will pick me up right...wrong, the police hardly ever scan me, and have no interest...

Ahh you say, but their illegal so they need a black market to sell...nope, and traders corner in any station is more than happy to take them off my hands ???

Its both a bug and exploit, and ruins the early game, Spaceflys should be very rare, and very illegal, and before some smart arse suggests not picking them up and using them then , it does'nt work like that for immersion, the human brain finds it odd and confusing to purposely avoid that which seems logical, thus avoiding picking up free and easy thousands everywhere spoils the immersion and feeling of challenge that say trading offers.

Please dev's sort this exploit..

Buzz2005
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by Buzz2005 » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 09:37

kind of dont mind it, its not really fun gameplay to exploit it very far but sometimes when I need money and have some stations to plan I setup a scout to pick drops in a busy field

just like crystal before the nerf its not a fun gameplay to do it more then like 1 hour imo
Fixed ships getting spawned away from ship configuration menu at resupply ships from automatically getting deployables.

peteran
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by peteran » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 10:20

IIRC Space Fly eggs are illegal in most systems. Perhaps the selling of those or the caviar should be more restricted somehow. Or maybe the ramifications of carrying the eggs should be larger

Poacher886
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by Poacher886 » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 11:40

peteran wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 10:20
IIRC Space Fly eggs are illegal in most systems. Perhaps the selling of those or the caviar should be more restricted somehow. Or maybe the ramifications of carrying the eggs should be larger
All of the above i would say. Surely Spacefly eggs are illegal in Argon Prime!!, i seem to remember them being illegal in all systems non-split or pirate in X3 ?

xant
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by xant » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 11:53

That's why everything that can even remotely generate an income gets nerfed: because people call legitimate gameplay mechanics a bug/exploit.

It might be true that it is a bit easy to find a willing buyer for something that's illegal, but there's nothing wrong with how Spaceflies are created, obtained or made into profit.

Poacher886
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by Poacher886 » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 12:07

xant wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 11:53
That's why everything that can even remotely generate an income gets nerfed: because people call legitimate gameplay mechanics a bug/exploit.

It might be true that it is a bit easy to find a willing buyer for something that's illegal, but there's nothing wrong with how Spaceflies are created, obtained or made into profit.
There is, because:

1. Early game it renders all other methods pointless.
2. There is no risk = reward , because there is no risk (they are literally all around the Wharf and map and no-gives a monkeys about you collecting or selling).
3. Its renders the Lore of the X series void, as spaceflies were, and should be rare and hard to find and illegal.
4. The money generated is fast and significant (for early game), which removes the slow challenging excitement of gradualy building your first few ships etc....i literally could raise a million+ in a couple of hours! no chance of that trading!

So as other easy handout gifts, these should also be nerfed.

xant
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by xant » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 12:34

Poacher886 wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 12:07
There is, because:

1. Early game it renders all other methods pointless.
2. There is no risk = reward , because there is no risk (they are literally all around the Wharf and map and no-gives a monkeys about you collecting or selling).
3. Its renders the Lore of the X series void, as spaceflies were, and should be rare and hard to find and illegal.
4. The money generated is fast and significant (for early game), which removes the slow challenging excitement of gradualy building your first few ships etc....i literally could raise a million+ in a couple of hours! no chance of that trading!

So as other easy handout gifts, these should also be nerfed.
Let's take a look at earlier X-games. Spaceflies were really rare, you also needed special equipment to catch them (only available from pirates and Split), you could only sell them to Split and pirates and the profit was overall negligible. And you know what? The whole thing was nothing more than a useless gameplay mechanic that nobody used, as the expense in time and resources just wasn't worth it. In that way it also rendered the lore void, as catching and selling Spaceflies was considered very profitable.

That's why I'm glad that we actually have this as a viable way to get some money in the early stages of the current game. True, police behaviour and the risk of trading illegal goods could be handled better (and I hope the next expansion will give us some improvements here, being centered around piracy), but nerfing something because police isn't working right? Not a good idea.

And above all, it is still a singleplayer game. Catching flies is boring and requires you to sink a significant portion of your time to make serious money. After some time people will always shift to more profitable activities anyway. If you feel that doing certain things makes your life too easy. then don't do them. But stop calling for nerfs that affect all other people who don't see it as a problem.

You want to know how an actual bug/exploit looks? Selling a ship, boarding it, selling it again, boarding it again, rinse and repeat. Millions upon millions of credits within minutes. THAT was an exploit and clearly not intended.

But a few millions in exchange for a few hours of your valuable time? It is well within the scope of what is I'd consider okay. Not great, but not terrible either.

dtpsprt
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by dtpsprt » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 15:36

Poacher886 wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 09:19
Having started a new game, im still somewhat bemused that the Spacefly bug / exploit is still in place and free to use....

I used to think Crystal mining was a early game runiner and exploit (it still is), but pales in significance when compared to Spaceflys. There is simply no need to trade / mine or anything else in the game to quickly aquire a small fleet of small / Medium ships in a single gaming session by hoovering up Spaceflys!

I have started a new custom start in Argon prime, and the Asteroid field right next to the wharf is all i need. These 'rare' spaeflys which are typically found in the outer reached of the galaxy (or were in X3) , are the single most common object too be seen, as common as Lodstone and unstable crystal!! i literally cant scope them up faster than they appear within a 12k radius..typically in 2's thats 20k a pop EVERYWHERE!

But wait, their illegal, so the police will pick me up right...wrong, the police hardly ever scan me, and have no interest...

Ahh you say, but their illegal so they need a black market to sell...nope, and traders corner in any station is more than happy to take them off my hands ???

Its both a bug and exploit, and ruins the early game, Spaceflys should be very rare, and very illegal, and before some smart arse suggests not picking them up and using them then , it does'nt work like that for immersion, the human brain finds it odd and confusing to purposely avoid that which seems logical, thus avoiding picking up free and easy thousands everywhere spoils the immersion and feeling of challenge that say trading offers.

Please dev's sort this exploit..
Seriously? An "average" S fighter is worth about 1.6 mil. That's 80 spaceflies by your calculations and it will take about 2 hours to gather them. Even if you translate them to caviar it will take 50 of them (more than an hour) for a single S fighter... At the same timeframe (one hour), one can finish 3 Khaak protection missions with 3x300K = 1 mil nominal reward, plus rep 12+, plus some 2 mil in rewards from the kills, plus a lot of mod parts including more than 1 SETA (everything over 1 SETA is valued at 300K as a set). All it takes to do this is either forget the "accursed" Val Sheldon Argon start (who wants that monkey look for him/herself anyway), or if you intend to keep it just make a Minotaur Raider to bail and use it!!!

So, my friend, "nerf it" is just unacceptable for two reasons:
1) The "lazy ones" will always find a "lazy" way to do things, are you going to nerf everything below playability?
2) It's a single player game and (listed as) a sandbox. This means that there must be more (way more) than one ways to play it.

Suggestion: Stop crying "nerf" and start figuring out what you, personally you, want out of this game for yourself. Just like the other players do...

kosjak111
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by kosjak111 » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 17:04

dtpsprt wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 15:36
Poacher886 wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 09:19
Having started a new game, im still somewhat bemused that the Spacefly bug / exploit is still in place and free to use....

I used to think Crystal mining was a early game runiner and exploit (it still is), but pales in significance when compared to Spaceflys. There is simply no need to trade / mine or anything else in the game to quickly aquire a small fleet of small / Medium ships in a single gaming session by hoovering up Spaceflys!

I have started a new custom start in Argon prime, and the Asteroid field right next to the wharf is all i need. These 'rare' spaeflys which are typically found in the outer reached of the galaxy (or were in X3) , are the single most common object too be seen, as common as Lodstone and unstable crystal!! i literally cant scope them up faster than they appear within a 12k radius..typically in 2's thats 20k a pop EVERYWHERE!

But wait, their illegal, so the police will pick me up right...wrong, the police hardly ever scan me, and have no interest...

Ahh you say, but their illegal so they need a black market to sell...nope, and traders corner in any station is more than happy to take them off my hands ???

Its both a bug and exploit, and ruins the early game, Spaceflys should be very rare, and very illegal, and before some smart arse suggests not picking them up and using them then , it does'nt work like that for immersion, the human brain finds it odd and confusing to purposely avoid that which seems logical, thus avoiding picking up free and easy thousands everywhere spoils the immersion and feeling of challenge that say trading offers.

Please dev's sort this exploit..
Seriously? An "average" S fighter is worth about 1.6 mil. That's 80 spaceflies by your calculations and it will take about 2 hours to gather them. Even if you translate them to caviar it will take 50 of them (more than an hour) for a single S fighter... At the same timeframe (one hour), one can finish 3 Khaak protection missions with 3x300K = 1 mil nominal reward, plus rep 12+, plus some 2 mil in rewards from the kills, plus a lot of mod parts including more than 1 SETA (everything over 1 SETA is valued at 300K as a set). All it takes to do this is either forget the "accursed" Val Sheldon Argon start (who wants that monkey look for him/herself anyway), or if you intend to keep it just make a Minotaur Raider to bail and use it!!!

So, my friend, "nerf it" is just unacceptable for two reasons:
1) The "lazy ones" will always find a "lazy" way to do things, are you going to nerf everything below playability?
2) It's a single player game and (listed as) a sandbox. This means that there must be more (way more) than one ways to play it.

Suggestion: Stop crying "nerf" and start figuring out what you, personally you, want out of this game for yourself. Just like the other players do...
I agree with you.

Also, if you thinks this is broken, then, just don't use it. Simple as it.

Panos
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by Panos » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 19:03

xant wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 11:53
That's why everything that can even remotely generate an income gets nerfed: because people call legitimate gameplay mechanics a bug/exploit.

It might be true that it is a bit easy to find a willing buyer for something that's illegal, but there's nothing wrong with how Spaceflies are created, obtained or made into profit.
Indeed! People believe that gaming should be equivalent to suffering. Someone started the game with 10K credit in a spacesuit no other assets, trying to find a way to fly in AI ships to make money! Someone else asks for starting in debt too!

Like the TS/OP people complained that player wharf and yard are exploit/bug and profits need to be nerfed and they have to the point they are not profitable AT ALL.

This is getting ridiculous and many lost the plot on why we play games. :gruebel:

Panos
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by Panos » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 19:07

Poacher886 wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 09:19
Please dev's sort this exploit..
Is not a bug and is NOT an exploit. Is single player game you can choose not to collect spacefly eggs.
Other might like to do it for the fun.

Is not a competition but a SINGLE PLAYER GAME.

humility925
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by humility925 » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 19:47

I agree it's going too far, there is couple thing nerfed to ground, and now game is much slower, Not everyone want slow painful gameplay, some want faster in legal way, due real life time limited and busy life. This game is should be entertainment, not painful to played. Crystal mining was fun, because it's keep you busy active but now, it's not active because too busy stare at screen for hour and hour to gain tiny profit, meanwhile they didn't buff mission and other thing, they just nerfed, nerfed, thinking of negativity and not forced on positivity of gameplay, Some want faster and hurry up, maybe because real life issues, and want slow, maybe they had free time in real life, who know.

I had no issues with exploit as long it's a choice, not forced.
Had a compassionate when you able... :)

Imperial Good
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by Imperial Good » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 19:53

Wait until you start fighting the Xenon...

Hoovering up hundreds of space flies, and other stuff, a fight due to all the destroyed fighters. Then there are the Ks which factions pay 200k per kill for, and they take only 2 seconds each to destroy thanks to the Asguard!

LameFox
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by LameFox » Sun, 26. Sep 21, 13:31

I guess that they are meant to be valuable but 'risky' however the AI is simply too inept to prevent a player controlled ship from smuggling wares with no volume, as you can use something fast and easily avoid the scans and repercussions of scans. There's a risk of your AI controlled ships being caught collecting illegal wares but not your personal one.

I would not mind if they nerfed things like this or collecting xenon loot but it direly needs to be paired with other ways to make money. I did not buy this game to be a space trucker, it was not advertised that way. We need our property to be able to claim bounties in combat, and to have a more involved salvage system that isn't just 'hold key to vacuum up money'. Something that's actually fun to do.
***modified***

Karmaticdamage
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by Karmaticdamage » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 17:38

Poacher886 wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 09:19
I used to think Crystal mining was a early game runiner and exploit (it still is)
The real early game ruiner is immediately capping and selling the abandoned oddy in faulty logic. Instant 5-10mil, get several sector miners going immediately. On top of that, you can get 250-500k credits from each data vault opened. I don't even bother with crystal mining anymore.

kmunoz
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by kmunoz » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 18:30

Now that we have the ability to create a non-budgeted custom start with no cap on starting money, the "threat" of early game exploits is much lower.

I agree that it's weird that spaceflies are so abundant, and that the police aren't cracking down in places where they can be found in quantity. I think the former could probably use some attention from a dev who has literally nothing else to do with his time (because the priority on this is well below "none"), but the latter is probably something we'll just need to live with. We shouldn't expect a police AI that handles the nuances of supply, demand, border control and enforcement priority.

If you want to start with a lot of money, custom start.

If you want to start with no money and then get a lot of money by cheesing the spaceflies... well, that actually takes longer than a custom start, so... why are you doing that? But ok. Go for it. It's now the *slow* way to your first millions.

(Insert pretty much any early game exploit in place of "spaceflies." The custom start exists. Everything else takes longer.)
Let's Play Poorly! - Suboptimal X4 Playthroughs

IRONOX
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by IRONOX » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 21:31

I know there are people playing this game that want to spent 10 hours to get a single credit earned, but calling this an exploit or bug is so far fetched.
Alle Angaben mit Gewähr auf eventuelle Fehlerhaftigkeit!

Panos
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by Panos » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 23:20

IRONOX wrote:
Tue, 28. Sep 21, 21:31
I know there are people playing this game that want to spent 10 hours to get a single credit earned, but calling this an exploit or bug is so far fetched.
Amen.
Poacher886 wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 09:19
I used to think Crystal mining was a early game runiner and exploit (it still is)
Poacher886 how YOUR game is ruined if I do Crystal mining in my game?
Karmaticdamage wrote:
Tue, 28. Sep 21, 17:38
The real early game ruiner is immediately capping and selling the abandoned oddy in faulty logic. Instant 5-10mil, get several sector miners going immediately. On top of that, you can get 250-500k credits from each data vault opened. I don't even bother with crystal mining anymore.
Karmaticdamage how YOUR game is ruined if I pick the Ody in my game?


To both. If you want

DO NOT mine crystals
DO NOT collect eggs
DO NOT collect the vaults
DO NOT collect the Ody or the other abandoned ships
DO NOT do the war missions for the L miners as rewards.

Why you want to remove this options for me and everone else? This is not a competition or an online game to affect you.
This is an OFF LINE SINGLE PLAYER GAME and my game doesn't affect yours. If it does tell me how.


Changes in the game affect everyone. Good example the mining nerfing leading to total collapse of factions (XEN, ANT, ARG) with the smallest push. Why?
Dozens of parameters which none of you have looked as whole how might affect the economy or simulator.

Stop wanting to ruin MY game.

builder680
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by builder680 » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 23:33

IRONOX wrote:
Tue, 28. Sep 21, 21:31
I know there are people playing this game that want to spent 10 hours to get a single credit earned, but calling this an exploit or bug is so far fetched.
Agreed. It seems like doing anything other than soloing Xenon I's with your spacesuit laser is the only non-exploit.

Panos
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Re: The Spacefly Bug / Exploit

Post by Panos » Wed, 29. Sep 21, 00:01

builder680 wrote:
Tue, 28. Sep 21, 23:33
IRONOX wrote:
Tue, 28. Sep 21, 21:31
I know there are people playing this game that want to spent 10 hours to get a single credit earned, but calling this an exploit or bug is so far fetched.
Agreed. It seems like doing anything other than soloing Xenon I's with your spacesuit laser is the only non-exploit.
Personally I am baffled how their games are ruined if I pick the Odysseus or crystals or eggs! :gruebel:



:lol:

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