Xenon Ship Redesigns

[mr.WHO]

Yep, I wonder why they didn't ported LX from X3.

They would need to remake it which, like all ships, is a lot of work.

No it's not - they already have Xenon M (which is in fact Xenon L from X3), to get an LX you just need to slab two of them together at 90 degree - it kinda looks like dual nose.
That's not much of an effort, but simple kitbash:


https://roguey.co.uk/x3ap/ships/ship-171/
https://roguey.co.uk/x3ap/ships/ship-172/

[NightmareNight91]

Yep, I wonder why they didn't ported LX from X3.

They would need to remake it which, like all ships, is a lot of work.

No they dont, the M and N are exact copies (M is actually L though) from x3. No need for cockpits, proper landing gear, internals or anything.

[Imperial Good]

No they dont, the M and N are exact copies (M is actually L though) from x3. No need for cockpits, proper landing gear, internals or anything.

I am pretty sure they are from XR which had them reworked to be supported. Even if the meshes can be ported they still need to be rigged and simply porting meshes might not result in a high quality end product.

[Malchar]

Better M-shields (or just more slots for shields) is also possible.

For xenons capital ships, just fill the numerous empty slots would be a good start.

[Panos]

No they dont, the M and N are exact copies (M is actually L though) from x3. No need for cockpits, proper landing gear, internals or anything.

I am pretty sure they are from XR which had them reworked to be supported. Even if the meshes can be ported they still need to be rigged and simply porting meshes might not result in a high quality end product.

I wonder if we as community do the leg work and design (or port from X3 designs) Xenon ships, fully functional, if they are well balanced why not Egosoft add them in the game and had to play with modified flag?

Btw the main issue with the Xenon capital ships are
a) the missing modules, especially M shields.
b) turrets get damaged by explosions easily. A post in relation to this
https://www.reddit.com/r/X4Foundations/ ... his_k_has/

When started playing in 2019, the Xenon were pushing hard, especially the "I" was a threat destroying few stations per sector. Now this is not the case.
The Faulty Logic gates were almost constantly swarmed by Ks, Ps and Ms. One time was near the gate in the HOP sector, in the space suit while opening the vault. Had to hide inside the vault/station to avoid been killed by the swarm, while my 2 corvettes had time to arrive. (hadn't researched teleportation yet)
It was an experience and hairy moment. But was fun.

Started with 4.10 a new game last night and cannot kill 9 Xenon ships in the HOP sectors. If one crosses over from Faulty Logic is obliterated.
There are no Xenon!!!

[Malchar]

- proper L Destroyer
- L Freighter/Miner

I forgot to say about that. At this time xenons have no matrix to build L ships. Xenons have either no pier, shipyard or whatever, where a L sized ship can dock.


XL carrier, it may be possible.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2609061429

However I not sure AI is able to manage carrier / fighters correctly at this time.

PS ; a class I is about 15 times more massive that a raptor.

[linolafett]

I am pretty sure they are from XR which had them reworked to be supported. Even if the meshes can be ported they still need to be rigged and simply porting meshes might not result in a high quality end product.

Nah, no rigging needed.
Setting up xenon ships is not a huge amount of work, as no cockpit is needed and they dont need to be able do dock visually at stations.
I cant recall how the X3 xenon ships were textured, so they might need to me remapped (UVs) to use the XR/X4 xenon textures.
Only engine setup is more work, as they dont support the modular system.

[dtpsprt]

Nah, no rigging needed.
Setting up xenon ships is not a huge amount of work, as no cockpit is needed and they dont need to be able do dock visually at stations.
I cant recall how the X3 xenon ships were textured, so they might need to me remapped (UVs) to use the XR/X4 xenon textures.
Only engine setup is more work, as they dont support the modular system.

"Funny" as it may sound Lino... it seems to me that if (big if at that) Xenon are to get some more models then the demand for them to be able to operate under the player's commands (therefore at least cockpit) is going to rise skyhigh... Already there are threads here and on Steam asking for this. Of course, the "next" stem will be for them to be modular so the players can equip them with whatever they please...

So... either don't give them any fuel whatsoever or prepare yourself for a "great" undertaking...

[Panos]

I am pretty sure they are from XR which had them reworked to be supported. Even if the meshes can be ported they still need to be rigged and simply porting meshes might not result in a high quality end product.

Nah, no rigging needed.
Setting up xenon ships is not a huge amount of work, as no cockpit is needed and they dont need to be able do dock visually at stations.
I cant recall how the X3 xenon ships were textured, so they might need to me remapped (UVs) to use the XR/X4 xenon textures.
Only engine setup is more work, as they dont support the modular system.

Before further huge changes maybe egosoft look at 2 things?
a) When having COH installed don't start game with TER fleets in XEN territory. Started a game 2 nights ago with the Paranid start (Warrior). Happened to pop into Faulty Logic within the second hours of the campaign to do the mission killing 9 Xenon (had picked 3 missions of that type). Here was an Asgard, a Tokyo plus support fleet destroying Faulty Logic. Xenon never recovered after the devastation caused. Faulty Logic gate incursion is just a Xenon lone miner every hour, which is gate camped by the HOP. I struggled to find 9 Xenon ships to do the mission searching over the map edges for hours.
b) Fill up all the Xenon capital ship shield slots. They do not even have shields and their turrets get destroyed when they blow up a station module or another capital ship. After that they are fodder. Make the repair time faster.

I believe those two will solve the significant majority of the XEN problems. The one with their miners-constructors traveling across the map getting destroyed, seems is more difficult to fix.

FYI the above Asgard when cleared Faulty Logic jumped into HOP space and started attacking the laser turrets!

[mr.WHO]

Nah, no rigging needed.
Setting up xenon ships is not a huge amount of work, as no cockpit is needed and they dont need to be able do dock visually at stations.
I cant recall how the X3 xenon ships were textured, so they might need to me remapped (UVs) to use the XR/X4 xenon textures.
Only engine setup is more work, as they dont support the modular system.

It would be nice to bring back Xenon LX model from X3:
https://roguey.co.uk/x3fl/ships/ship-172/

Possibly also original X3 P and PX, but these might be too low poly to look good in X4:
https://roguey.co.uk/x3fl/ships/ship-175/
https://roguey.co.uk/x3fl/ships/ship-176/

[Shehriazad]

Eh if you're scared about Xenon taking over when being too powerful with stronger ships...wouldn't a fix to that be adding a bit to their faction A.I. where they become less aggressive the more sectors they own?

Lore wise Xenon were supposed to not be AS much into invasions anymore, right?

So basically Xenon doing well would only "poke" while Xenon "home sectors" amass huge fleets to protect the core whenever things are going bad. So they'd end up fighting over border sectors unless they only find super weak opposition in which case they might move in to create a new "core".

That way you could buff the Xenon all you wanted...without someone tipping the scale a lot (Hint: You) they'd usually look to defend and retake rather than conquer unless given easy access.

[linolafett]

I am pretty sure they are from XR which had them reworked to be supported. Even if the meshes can be ported they still need to be rigged and simply porting meshes might not result in a high quality end product.

Nah, no rigging needed.
Setting up xenon ships is not a huge amount of work, as no cockpit is needed and they dont need to be able do dock visually at stations.
I cant recall how the X3 xenon ships were textured, so they might need to me remapped (UVs) to use the XR/X4 xenon textures.
Only engine setup is more work, as they dont support the modular system.

Before further huge changes maybe egosoft look at 2 things?
a) When having COH installed don't start game with TER fleets in XEN territory. Started a game 2 nights ago with the Paranid start (Warrior). Happened to pop into Faulty Logic within the second hours of the campaign to do the mission killing 9 Xenon (had picked 3 missions of that type). Here was an Asgard, a Tokyo plus support fleet destroying Faulty Logic. Xenon never recovered after the devastation caused. Faulty Logic gate incursion is just a Xenon lone miner every hour, which is gate camped by the HOP. I struggled to find 9 Xenon ships to do the mission searching over the map edges for hours.
b) Fill up all the Xenon capital ship shield slots. They do not even have shields and their turrets get destroyed when they blow up a station module or another capital ship. After that they are fodder. Make the repair time faster.

I believe those two will solve the significant majority of the XEN problems. The one with their miners-constructors traveling across the map getting destroyed, seems is more difficult to fix.

FYI the above Asgard when cleared Faulty Logic jumped into HOP space and started attacking the laser turrets!

Please do not put bug reports into random threads. This thread is about xenon ship redesigns.
Bug reports should be placed in the public beta feedback subforum, that way we can track them better.

[Panos]

Nah, no rigging needed.
Setting up xenon ships is not a huge amount of work, as no cockpit is needed and they dont need to be able do dock visually at stations.
I cant recall how the X3 xenon ships were textured, so they might need to me remapped (UVs) to use the XR/X4 xenon textures.
Only engine setup is more work, as they dont support the modular system.

Before further huge changes maybe egosoft look at 2 things?
a) When having COH installed don't start game with TER fleets in XEN territory. Started a game 2 nights ago with the Paranid start (Warrior). Happened to pop into Faulty Logic within the second hours of the campaign to do the mission killing 9 Xenon (had picked 3 missions of that type). Here was an Asgard, a Tokyo plus support fleet destroying Faulty Logic. Xenon never recovered after the devastation caused. Faulty Logic gate incursion is just a Xenon lone miner every hour, which is gate camped by the HOP. I struggled to find 9 Xenon ships to do the mission searching over the map edges for hours.
b) Fill up all the Xenon capital ship shield slots. They do not even have shields and their turrets get destroyed when they blow up a station module or another capital ship. After that they are fodder. Make the repair time faster.

I believe those two will solve the significant majority of the XEN problems. The one with their miners-constructors traveling across the map getting destroyed, seems is more difficult to fix.

FYI the above Asgard when cleared Faulty Logic jumped into HOP space and started attacking the laser turrets!

Please do not put bug reports into random threads. This thread is about xenon ship redesigns.
Bug reports should be placed in the public beta feedback subforum, that way we can track them better.

Are these bugs? Because there is another discussion about beefing up the Xenon and they talk about these very same things for weeks. Many say is design choice!

If so is my duty not as a player but as a professional developer & analyst too, for 25 years, to eradicate bugs when I see them by any means necessary
I will report it. Have already reported couple of other bugs last 2 days. Thank you

[linolafett]

Its at least an anomaly which i cant really comment on, so someone else should take a look at this and tell if its "working as designed" or really not intentional.

[sh4l0m]

I think just adding a lot more HP to turrets in general would go a long way for all capitals. On top of that, add more repair for Xenon capital components. Better M-shields (or just more slots for shields) is also possible. This change would change the M class ships to more robust, they do take much more hits than S-class anyways.
Maybe make Xenon N cheaper so that they actually would be used as swarms? Bringing back the L fighter with a Missile launcher might be interesting.

An old problem with more ships was that the player didn't want to melt in half a second being unable to dodge in their fighter when they got focused from 15 directions, after all the whole world dies when the player dies. With teleporting restricted such escapes aren't an option for much of the game.