Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

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Ashitaka-san
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Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

Post by Ashitaka-san » Thu, 9. Sep 21, 08:42

So, after playing this game for quite some time now, I've noticed that pirates are not nearly as much a threat as I thought when I started the game. The reason being is that my trader ships have, in every occasion save for one, been able to escape from the pirates when they attack.

I've never had to drop my cargo; simply having them set to escape, by default, works in almost all cases. They are somehow able to get into travel mode even while being attacked. The only exception was a more recent one when my large freighter was attacked by a SCA Behemoth. The Behemoth kept the pressure on the ship so that it wasn't able to enter travel mode and escape.

So, my question is, how is it possible for trade ships to be able to escape in travel mode while attacked in OOS? Once a pirate attacks, there shouldn't be any way that the trader can escape and enter travel mode as the pirate should be constantly hitting it. Yet, I've watched that happen in OOS on many occasions....

Raevyan
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Re: Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

Post by Raevyan » Thu, 9. Sep 21, 09:03

If traders wouldn’t be able to escape, the whole economy would collapse in a few hours because there wouldn’t be any trader to move wares around to build new ones.

rusky
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Re: Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

Post by rusky » Thu, 9. Sep 21, 10:49

OOS combat is usually slower paced (much longer between combat "ticks").
It is purposefully designed where many shots have a high chance to miss etc, which can often result in periods of 30s or more where a ship doesn't get hit and can easily travel drive away.

Ashitaka-san
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Re: Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

Post by Ashitaka-san » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 16:56

rusky wrote:
Thu, 9. Sep 21, 10:49
OOS combat is usually slower paced (much longer between combat "ticks").
It is purposefully designed where many shots have a high chance to miss etc, which can often result in periods of 30s or more where a ship doesn't get hit and can easily travel drive away.
Hmmmm, I'm assuming that is where the problem lies then. As the same would not happen in system combat.

Ashitaka-san
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Re: Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

Post by Ashitaka-san » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 16:58

rene6740 wrote:
Thu, 9. Sep 21, 09:03
If traders wouldn’t be able to escape, the whole economy would collapse in a few hours because there wouldn’t be any trader to move wares around to build new ones.
Not at all. The system defense would come right to the aid of the traders and destroy the pirates.

Said trader may not survive the encounter but losing an occasional trader to pirates would not in any way dent the huge economy of factions.

dtpsprt
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Re: Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

Post by dtpsprt » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 17:10

Ashitaka-san wrote:
Mon, 13. Sep 21, 16:56
rusky wrote:
Thu, 9. Sep 21, 10:49
OOS combat is usually slower paced (much longer between combat "ticks").
It is purposefully designed where many shots have a high chance to miss etc, which can often result in periods of 30s or more where a ship doesn't get hit and can easily travel drive away.
Hmmmm, I'm assuming that is where the problem lies then. As the same would not happen in system combat.
Not really, you can take a ship with some valuable cargo yourself for a "spin" and notice that pirates harass the traders from a long distance. If you have orders for them to escape (and not ask you in the mean time loosing precious time) your traders will have ample time to escape while the pirate waits to give the "second" warning... The only unlucky instance you referred to can only happen very close to a Gate (or Accelerator) that the pirate can come right on the face of the trader and it has to be an L one (like the Behemoth) so that it enters the sector stationery. The M pirates enter at a speed which they'll have to shed and then turn around, so your trader can escape them...

gorman2040
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Re: Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

Post by gorman2040 » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 19:58

Ashitaka-san wrote:
Thu, 9. Sep 21, 08:42
So, after playing this game for quite some time now, I've noticed that pirates are not nearly as much a threat as I thought when I started the game. The reason being is that my trader ships have, in every occasion save for one, been able to escape from the pirates when they attack.

I've never had to drop my cargo; simply having them set to escape, by default, works in almost all cases. They are somehow able to get into travel mode even while being attacked. The only exception was a more recent one when my large freighter was attacked by a SCA Behemoth. The Behemoth kept the pressure on the ship so that it wasn't able to enter travel mode and escape.

So, my question is, how is it possible for trade ships to be able to escape in travel mode while attacked in OOS? Once a pirate attacks, there shouldn't be any way that the trader can escape and enter travel mode as the pirate should be constantly hitting it. Yet, I've watched that happen in OOS on many occasions....
Interesting, my experience on my first play-through was to first set them to escape. Eventually I started to get my trade ship destroyed and it hurts when it is an expensive/customized/experienced crew ship. I eventually switched to "comply" to pirate harassment as loosing some of my cargo wasn't so bad anyway. I finally went the diplomatic way with Scale Plate and they are not a threat anymore. Fallen Families were different as I got bad reputation with them. Even while my traders would comply to pirates, some of them would get destroyed (I am -30 reputation).

I started a new game recently and I feel like you can be on "escape" more easily when you start. Although this could just be wrong as I am comparing very different size trade fleets.

I have tried the more shielded or faster ships but it didn't make that much of a difference.

To your point on how do they escape, I have personally jumped into traders under attack and saved them by running evasive manoeuvres until I could start the travel drive. The AI could be simulating that in some case, although I have no knowledge of the game code behind this behaviour.
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Raevyan
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Re: Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

Post by Raevyan » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 21:19

Ashitaka-san wrote:
Mon, 13. Sep 21, 16:58
rene6740 wrote:
Thu, 9. Sep 21, 09:03
If traders wouldn’t be able to escape, the whole economy would collapse in a few hours because there wouldn’t be any trader to move wares around to build new ones.
Not at all. The system defense would come right to the aid of the traders and destroy the pirates.

Said trader may not survive the encounter but losing an occasional trader to pirates would not in any way dent the huge economy of factions.
That would require the patrol ai actually working decently. And yes a trader lost here and there matters. NPC factions already don’t have sufficient traders to move wares around. Because of that, shipyards only receive resources very slowly. They in fact loose them faster than they can rebuild. I had this happen in my 3.0 game where HOP didn’t have a single trader or miner just because I stopped selling ships to them. Also when I started to sell them ships, they still order combat ships 9 out of ten orders.

NPC economy might seem huge to you but in reality it’s very Fragile. Just capture/destroy some of their ships and you will see the effect.

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Botschafter Von Den Glück
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Re: Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

Post by Botschafter Von Den Glück » Wed, 15. Sep 21, 22:33

the game has this problem in ALL aspects.
the AI struggles with X,
and the player will have much too easy.

the pirates will catch AI traders alot, and cause they are silly, they obey and this has maybe some reason why the economy of the faction is
very low aswell! you must Do everything alone!
you must build their entire empire up!
its very clearly visible in more games, that dev makes nothing, and hero in world X has to do every dirt for 200 npcs, whos task is actually just what the hero will overtake.
very visible that this was not in games that are older than 10 years.
hopefully it will change something, if the quality sinks enough.
Botschafter von den Glücksplaneten: Zu 100% Doktor. Die vertrauen mir!

Dreez
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Re: Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

Post by Dreez » Thu, 16. Sep 21, 02:08

Imo pirates should be using EMP missiles because that's only logical. I've been a victim of EMP missiles myself
and it's a real PITA when you can't warp but you're in a no-win fight, especially when you know you haven't saved in a while :lol: .

Also... pirates should be using their own capitals, like in X3, not using capitals from the other races.
Anyone who played X3 will remember the dreaded Susanowa in OOS with Plasma Burst Generators.. omg they ripped hard.

I don't know why the pirates in X4 doesn't have their own ships... But then again, we don't know why PAR ships looks like trash while Terran ships looks awesome.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

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Botschafter Von Den Glück
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Re: Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

Post by Botschafter Von Den Glück » Thu, 16. Sep 21, 13:37

par ships looks like good fish.::))))

the L freighters and above are indeed very good fish-karpfen sequels to earlier games. very competetive to other species.
maybe, the pink color needs some more reflections if you have the obsidian x on it its good.

the smaller ships are in it also good. the only problem is: they all look so bulk with the "bulk and huge" weapon and drive components on it.
one thinks, the ship itself has a drive, but no: the space ship is a drive, with some carcasse on it.
but comeon love the details of 1 month of work per ship :D :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen:
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bubbabenali
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Re: Why are pirates so easy to escape from?

Post by bubbabenali » Thu, 16. Sep 21, 15:25

If the game would rule OOS combat by numbers X4 would be dead in minutes, any random FAF Destroyer would decimate the sector it spawned in within minutes.

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