Idea: Influence the strength of the Xenon through a questline

[G315t]

On Steam once again one of the discussions about the strength of the Xenon came up. eMYNOCK asked me to post my idea here.

Since you can never do justice to all players with a general re-balancing of the Xenon you can solve it with a world quest instead.

For example, we have the Paranid Questline, which allows us to customize the sandbox of the game according to our preferences. I would like to see something like that for the Xenon.

We could play a quest where the goal is to find/analyze code fragments of the old Terraformer killswitch to create a virus to weaken the Xenon.

At the end you could then insert this virus into a Xenon relay, and then depending on how the player decides different things happen.

Option 1; Everything stays the same, the code is not used, the Xenon have found out what we want to do and have destroyed the relay as a precaution.

Option 2; The code works, partially, which would eventually lead to Xenon being weakened.

For example, this could affect the sandbox by lowering the ship limit, or the Xenon can only build new ships in their shipyards at a reduced speed. Or maybe it deactivated the production in the Shipyards and the Defence for some time, like a hacked Terminal would do.

Option 3: The code fails, as it failed all those years ago. But the result is that another terraformer fleet becomes aware of the currently active jump gate network. And they are not happy.

The effect would be, for example, that in a sector not yet infested by the Xenon, a fleet comes out of a temporarily activated jump gate. This fleet starts to build a new Shipyard as a bridgehead for its invasion.

This would result in the player having an increased and stronger Xenon presence in his game and the Xenon also invading sectors that were previously spared. (For Example one of the inner Ring Systems)

I think this way you could satisfy more player interests and leave it up to the player if he wants to have more Xenon war in his universe or not.

[LameFox]

I would definitely use this, but I'd add that just increasing Xenon numbers wouldn't present much of a challenge honestly. Especially at the end of a quest since they always have resource requirements that, if you can afford them, you probably only don't rule the universe if you don't feel like it.

What would be really cool is if it had a different and stronger strain of them, that was more akin to the OCV out of LU or ROR's raider faction. Something that, if left alone, will definitely overtake everything and gives the player a long term foe. I guarantee I would activate it every time lol, the factions just don't have the ambition to be a serious enemy later in the game.

[Falcrack]

Yes. Or, a difficulty slider in the menu, where we can influence how strong the Xenon are allowed to become. The Xenon typically have the production capacity to build many more ships than they actually do, they are generally only held back by a cap on their ship number.

[SirConnery]

Yes. Or, a difficulty slider in the menu, where we can influence how strong the Xenon are allowed to become.

Ideally I would like a Xenon difficulty modifier, which influences the amount of fleet they can have and a Xenon ship price modifier, so you can make all their ships like 10% cheaper thus having an all over Xenon war everywhere.

Questline is good too, but I want to start with Xenon being strong.

[G315t]

Questline is good too, but I want to start with Xenon being strong.

If there will be a Questline, you can then simply start a Budgeted or Creative Gamestart and have strong Xenon (or weaker Xenon) from the start.

[dtpsprt]

I'm all for it as long as the Questline is akin with the one for the Yaki or the Terran Terraforming...

Had enough of "Bring me 2 billion credits" and 12,000 Advanced Electronics and 666,666 Claytronics, which is a typical example of people not ready to put their mind and imagination to use in a storyline, or trying to cheaply prolong a game IMHO.

This will also make the whole game playable with increased or decreased strength of the Xenon on top of what RNG brings, which would be a good thing. At the moment I have deactivated CoH (and loose on these very good questlines) only because it's the only way to have a viable Xenon. The Questlines will end... the Xenon and the playthrough should survive...

EDIT: Another good idea might be the implementation of the return Superhighway between the two Savage Spurs, right in front of the Xenon Shipyard so the Xenon can just pour their guts against the Terrans right on their stepdoor and good luck to the player that would try to get there with "Delilah's Swansong" to hit the Xenon structure...

[Raevyan]

I actually talked about some kind of plot to make xenons stronger and more aggressive to Gimbutz on Discord the other day. He didn’t seem too interested in that idea

[waynetarlton]

Absolutely fantastic idea. IMO Xenons are too weak.

The possibility of a multi-option outcome dependant upon one's abilities/decisions is awesome. I'd definitely pay extra.

[kmunoz]

This idea reminds me (in a positive way) of the interaction between player and AI in AI War 2 - where certain non-combat actions on your part directly influence the strength and attention of the opposing force. It's a very satisfying gameplay element.

[Malchar]

Absolutely fantastic idea. IMO Xenons are too weak.

The possibility of a multi-option outcome dependant upon one's abilities/decisions is awesome. I'd definitely pay extra.

Xenons had been designed to be weak in order to offer players victory (and make then proud). If S and M xenons fighter were avaialable for players, I doubt any of us would play it. (or just once to try). Corvette P is a joke. Slow weak, rather clumsy and underarmed.

K is supposed to be a xl, but with minimal main shield and hull in this categorie. also 75 per cent of shields intented to protect its main turrets had been removed to allow players to neutralize K, then merciless destroy the hopeless ennemy. I can add K artillery had been disposed to be all ... but efficient. K have also only a Large thruster but fall in the XL calculation table for agility ; In consequence every ships have better manoeuvrability, even a teladi XL builder. As far as I know it is the only XL ship to not have xl thruster.

The I. It have an impressive designed. It shares with the K that 3/4 of its shields to protect main artilery stay empty. It is always for the same reaon. When I look at a Xenon I, I feel to enter in a empty room. It could easilly ten time the armemnent it have, but about all is empty on his hull.

however up to Split vendetta and even later xenon were rather effiecient.
Here it is the OOS calculation domaine. It is an other part of the problem. That calculation had dramatically fall at expent of the xenons is probably a demand from players who wanted to play a peaceful sim city is the space.

The last part I think about, is ships and weapon becomes more and more powerful (at least for the last faction " heros" of the new DLC.

What I wish to say is ; the problem, imho, need several corrections, from differents horizons, applied in a solution.

[G315t]

Well yes, the Xenon have been nerfed because of popular player demand.

That's why I said a general rebalance will not make all people happy.
With such a Worldquest that would change the Xenon behavior/ strength. We would have a Ingame, lore friendly option to apply to more peoples tastes without simply using sliders in the game option (because I know they dont like that idea to make slider changes to the sandbox)

How they make the quest influence the outcome would be up to the devs. Because only they know the numbers. I only tried to give some examples how this could impact the Sandbox. Many other ways are of course possible.

[Imperial Good]

I think it would be better if Xenon "sleeper" fleets start to invade the universe should they lose control of too many sectors. The lore already suggests that much of the spread of the Xenon is done outside the jumpgate network since being machines they do not have issues performing long distance travels directly between star systems. This would allow the Xenon to always be a threat without making them more powerful directly. It is important the Xenon are not that powerful since otherwise without player intervention they could start to degrade the state of the universe which is not player friendly.

There could be supporting mechanics to inform the player in advance where these sleeper fleets will appear so they can take appropriate defensive action if they wish. The sleeper fleets would try to construct Xenon infrastructure in the target sector, potentially making new Xenon colonies to replace the ones which were lost. There could be a whole load of late game supporting missions involved with dealing with such fleets including delaying, destroying, detecting, diverting, e.t.c.

[LameFox]

I wouldn't say it's not player friendly if it's something the player wilfully activates. Isn't that the point? You would set this up the way you wanted (stronger, weaker, or leave it the same).

Personally I would specifically want to make Xenon require player intervention to preserve the universe, because things that only require AI intervention are about as threatening as a gently thrown pudding.

[Buzz2005]

where did you get this info about xenon nerf bc of people demand for peaceful game?

doesn't that work against the war driven economy, kinda hope this is not true

this has totally killed my enjoyment of the game, I mean whats the point to have this dynamic economy when sectors change ownership almost never now

oos calc is very unbalanced and imo is the root of all those problems

EDIT: evidence that oos is very unbalanced is when ypu start that yaki mission where they bait xenons to attack earth, it has 3 Is and 9 or 12 Ks and a massive amount of fighters support, watch how they cant even get past savage spur the very first sector if they encounter a station or an asgard

[Malchar]

where did you get this info about xenon nerf bc of people demand for peaceful game?

They Did, and you had tons of baby cry because xenons had destroyed hatikvah market place or argon prime shipyard and sometime teladis shipyards at profit center alpha.

You have lazyness also, fron the same population ; refusual to search where is the new hatikvah ligue HQ, Refusal for an active military action vs xenon to stop them. Refusal to help in rebuild destroyed major friendly stations.

OOS manipulation have a great part of responsability. You will no more see a single Xenon I destroying the industrial ship facility at bright peomise then ruins the profit center alpha shipyards. --- Instead Now if you send a dozen of K destroyer against a food rations the xenons will suffer an humiliating defeat.

[Buzz2005]

ahh the good old days, I loved it always something to do but im still not convinced that was the deciding factor bc oos had bigger problems with turrets getting destroyed instantly before and they added all kinds of parameters to it, and the dev did confirm they want oos fighting to last long

it just needs more tweaking for things to actually happen as in get destroyed, the whole point is to have a somewhat random universe development and now its all just in a stalemate most of the time

they really need to give that dev time to improve it and not just have him fix individual bugs

[Sound19]

So.... When folks are sayin xenon aren't strong enough, I wonder if the problem - relative to the behavior we might want - is less globalized, and more about how focused or unfocused their presence and impact is? Because although Xenon are pretty much a non-issue in my own game, where I don't think any actions were taken toward them by anyone, they have little stuff all over the place, accomplishing very little. So while I like the original post's idea, what if a result changes their behavior, for example toward using more tightly focused offensives? Dunno if I favor this or anything, just a thought.

[Y-llian]

Wild idea….

Instead of the quest line adding new Xenon or more Xenon why not give the Xenon the ability to hack (cough “assimilate”) NPC fleets already constructed/used?

This will force NPCs to replace “hacked” ships, which drives the military economy and give the Xenon (at least temporarily) new ships across the galaxy to wreak havoc with.

Lots of kinks needs working out in terms of balance but like I said, wild idea!

[gorman2040]

I like the story idea to influence the strength of the Xenon.
You could have an option where you make a deal with them and you stop the war, like other diplomatic missions in the game... Just kidding (or maybe not, you just have to feed them advanced electronics all the time)

Edit: I just finished the Yaki plot and I find one of the option rather interesting regarding this discussion.

Spoiler

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I haven't played long enough while choosing "mutually assured destruction" but I think this would be a good approach at strengthening the Xenon. We could be able to put more navigation beacon to bring more Xenon to specific sectors