[Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

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Sengar
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[Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Sengar » Mon, 2. Aug 21, 22:16

Dear Egosoft, can you please dial down the silicon mining nerf, or do something else about it?

The further I progress in the game, and the more silicon I require for my production, the more ridiculous it feels.

I've got a station that needs 100k/h silicon (which isn't all that much). I have 90+ miners assigned to that station (most of them L). It took much more credits to buy those miners, than the station itself (station ~150m, miners ~400m). I have given all my 1 star seminars to those miner pilots (which weren't enough by a big margin). I barely support half of the 100k/h required to run at full capacity. And yes, I used resource probes.

It doesn't have to be like it was before the nerf, but as it is now, it's just not fun anymore. I have to pour all my money into more and more miners, just to support one station. And no, I won't bother with S or M miners (even if they feel a lot more efficient), they just get chewed up by Khak raids.

Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I don't feel like doing 300+ mission to get all those pilot seminars, I would need to get my miner fleet more efficient. That's not fun for me. It may be feasible for small mining fleets. But you can do only so much as a player to get seminars, and the more production you get, the worse the problem of getting good pilots gets. I am at a point where I just buy 10 L miners at each Shipyard and hope that at some point I have enough to have enough silicon to run my production.

So again, can we please have better silicon mining efficiency, or at least a way to increase silicon mining efficiency without grinding for hundreds of hours? How about some sort of pilot school, where you can assign ships to, so they get pilot stars faster?

---

Feel free to move this somewhere else. I just put it here, because I usually play the beta and well it affects me here and now.

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Erqco
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Erqco » Mon, 2. Aug 21, 22:20

Can you do the terraformation mission. With it you can level 100 pilots to 3 starts quick. the terraformation need a lot of grind.

Sengar
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Sengar » Mon, 2. Aug 21, 22:25

Erqco wrote:
Mon, 2. Aug 21, 22:20
Can you do the terraformation mission. With it you can level 100 pilots to 3 starts quick. the terraformation need a lot of grind.
Not yet. I am working on it, but it'll take some days until I am at that stage of the game anyway. I didn't know about leveling up pilots with terraforming however.

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Erqco
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Erqco » Mon, 2. Aug 21, 23:19

Sengar wrote:
Mon, 2. Aug 21, 22:25
Erqco wrote:
Mon, 2. Aug 21, 22:20
Can you do the terraformation mission. With it you can level 100 pilots to 3 starts quick. the terraformation need a lot of grind.
Not yet. I am working on it, but it'll take some days until I am at that stage of the game anyway. I didn't know about leveling up pilots with terraforming however.
You can level pilots and marines, groups of 100 to level 3 quick, level 4 slower, competitions will give you level 5 but only one of them and single training the same.

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Shuulo
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 02:18

You need to setup mining operations station in some remote system with a lot of resources, then make few L freighters transport refined silicon from that station to your main station. Its that easy and not an issue with your budgets.
Having all miners at one station is not really good, they deplete nearby resources fast, get some silicon from another region, the more the resource yield the faster is mining. If you have hundred of miners at one place silicon is for sure depleted in most regions where those miners can reach.

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oddible
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by oddible » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 06:40

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 02:18
You need to setup mining operations station in some remote system with a lot of resources, then make few L freighters transport refined silicon from that station to your main station. Its that easy and not an issue with your budgets.
Having all miners at one station is not really good, they deplete nearby resources fast, get some silicon from another region, the more the resource yield the faster is mining. If you have hundred of miners at one place silicon is for sure depleted in most regions where those miners can reach.
Refined silicon isn't a thing in Terran manufacturing.

paiku
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by paiku » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 09:26

I can't see that He is talking about Terran economy. But you could still transport the silicon ore instead.

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Shuulo
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 12:38

oddible wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 06:40
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 02:18
You need to setup mining operations station in some remote system with a lot of resources, then make few L freighters transport refined silicon from that station to your main station. Its that easy and not an issue with your budgets.
Having all miners at one station is not really good, they deplete nearby resources fast, get some silicon from another region, the more the resource yield the faster is mining. If you have hundred of miners at one place silicon is for sure depleted in most regions where those miners can reach.
Refined silicon isn't a thing in Terran manufacturing.
then just make mining station (dock+storage and add silicon as ware) and transport ore with miners, they can work as freighters for raw resources

Cdaragorn
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Cdaragorn » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 16:26

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 02:18
You need to setup mining operations station in some remote system with a lot of resources, then make few L freighters transport refined silicon from that station to your main station. Its that easy and not an issue with your budgets.
Having all miners at one station is not really good, they deplete nearby resources fast, get some silicon from another region, the more the resource yield the faster is mining. If you have hundred of miners at one place silicon is for sure depleted in most regions where those miners can reach.
This is the answer to your issue. Adding more and more miners to the same location is going to have diminishing returns very quickly. With you already at 100+ I guarantee you're getting nothing more for adding more miners. You need to go where the silicon is rich and setup a dedicated mining operation there, then you can setup traders on the stations that need it to go and pick it up from your mining op. Or if it's very far just dedicate transport ships to repeat trade between the two stations.

Another nice thing about doing it this way is that you can focus on setting up a good network of resource probes in just one system instead of setting them up in many systems around your different stations.
"All that is gold does not glitter; not all those who wander are lost.
The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost." -- J.R.R. Tolkein

Ezarkal
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Ezarkal » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 17:23

Cdaragorn wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 16:26
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 02:18
You need to setup mining operations station in some remote system with a lot of resources, then make few L freighters transport refined silicon from that station to your main station. Its that easy and not an issue with your budgets.
Having all miners at one station is not really good, they deplete nearby resources fast, get some silicon from another region, the more the resource yield the faster is mining. If you have hundred of miners at one place silicon is for sure depleted in most regions where those miners can reach.
This is the answer to your issue. Adding more and more miners to the same location is going to have diminishing returns very quickly. With you already at 100+ I guarantee you're getting nothing more for adding more miners. You need to go where the silicon is rich and setup a dedicated mining operation there, then you can setup traders on the stations that need it to go and pick it up from your mining op. Or if it's very far just dedicate transport ships to repeat trade between the two stations.

Another nice thing about doing it this way is that you can focus on setting up a good network of resource probes in just one system instead of setting them up in many systems around your different stations.
It's also the solution I used. Mining outposts are quite easy to setup, and work pretty well.
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oddible
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by oddible » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 17:29

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 12:38
then just make mining station (dock+storage and add silicon as ware) and transport ore with miners, they can work as freighters for raw resources
The advantages of this are significantly reduced for Terran wares. Since you need a mining ship for mining and a mining ship for transporting raws, there isn't really much point in having the mining ship drop a full load at an intermdiate station then the exact same class of mining ship transport the exact same load to the destination. The ONLY advantage here is that you can have your high star rating miners keep mining and not transporting and use low star pilots on a repeat orders mission transporting to destination.

Otherwise just use Repeat Orders with a Mining order in different sectors - works about the same.

Sengar
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Sengar » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 17:35

Well, my miners are stationed one jump away from the "Asteroid Belt", wich is (I think) the sector with the most silicon richness (at least the ingame encyclopedia says so).

I have also discovered (after letting the game run for several hours), that L miners take ages to fill up. I can't really guess how long it takes to fill one up, but it sure feels like 2-3 hours (minimum) for 1 star L miners. What I am trying to say is, that I may have enough miners to cover 100k/h silicon, but it is very difficult to figure out, when you have to wait so long until newly bought L miners have an impact on your supply.

It's like I have to buy the miners in advance, and upgrade the solid storage first, before I add more production...

I am not sure what mining silicon in many different places should accomplish, it mines slow anywhere. Or do I misunderstand the reason behind it?

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Shuulo
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 19:14

oddible wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 17:29
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 12:38
then just make mining station (dock+storage and add silicon as ware) and transport ore with miners, they can work as freighters for raw resources
The advantages of this are significantly reduced for Terran wares. Since you need a mining ship for mining and a mining ship for transporting raws, there isn't really much point in having the mining ship drop a full load at an intermdiate station then the exact same class of mining ship transport the exact same load to the destination. The ONLY advantage here is that you can have your high star rating miners keep mining and not transporting and use low star pilots on a repeat orders mission transporting to destination.

Otherwise just use Repeat Orders with a Mining order in different sectors - works about the same.
well, agree,repeat order will work. Still, mining with non-depleted asteroid fields will go quite faster, even if travel time will be long.
But OP doesnt seem to work with Terran economy, so mining station advice still stands

Sengar
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Sengar » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 19:43

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 19:14
well, agree,repeat order will work. Still, mining with non-depleted asteroid fields will go quite faster, even if travel time will be long.
But OP doesnt seem to work with Terran economy, so mining station advice still stands
I am using both. I have fewer terran station, but they tend to be demanding more resources to operate.

Cdaragorn
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Cdaragorn » Wed, 4. Aug 21, 18:54

oddible wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 17:29
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 12:38
then just make mining station (dock+storage and add silicon as ware) and transport ore with miners, they can work as freighters for raw resources
The advantages of this are significantly reduced for Terran wares. Since you need a mining ship for mining and a mining ship for transporting raws, there isn't really much point in having the mining ship drop a full load at an intermdiate station then the exact same class of mining ship transport the exact same load to the destination. The ONLY advantage here is that you can have your high star rating miners keep mining and not transporting and use low star pilots on a repeat orders mission transporting to destination.

Otherwise just use Repeat Orders with a Mining order in different sectors - works about the same.
There are more advantages to this approach than just that one. In fact I wouldn't even consider that much of any kind of advantage since when using a station their skill comes more from the station manager than their own piloting skill.

When you dedicate some to mining to a single station in the same sector this way you get a much more reliable and predictable income of resources. That's very important when you're trying to get stations to run without you having to check on them. It's also a lot easier to tell when the mining from a given sector is not able to support all the stations you're trying to supply from it anymore.

I don't understand the comment about Terran wares. I don't see how that affects how you choose to mine at all.
"All that is gold does not glitter; not all those who wander are lost.
The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost." -- J.R.R. Tolkein

RLSa
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by RLSa » Thu, 5. Aug 21, 01:09

About the terraforming... this is way easier than people says.

You don't need to complete any terraform quest at all. Just teleport the PHQ to any terraform spot, construct the Bubble City project and after that the Aerial Maze. I think all this costs 90Mi.
The Aerial Maze is where you can train your pilots. A hundred at each time, until 4*. And a single each time from 4 to 5*.

I haven't completed a single terraform project, but trained more then 500 pilots to 4* and almost a hundred to 5*.

Wultan
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Wultan » Thu, 5. Aug 21, 09:47

What are doing miners with more stars better? Are they mine faster, find ore faster, shot khaaks better?

Eyeklops
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Eyeklops » Thu, 5. Aug 21, 15:46

Wultan wrote:
Thu, 5. Aug 21, 09:47
What are doing miners with more stars better? Are they mine faster, find ore faster, shot khaaks better?
The difference between a 2* miner and 5* miner is almost 10x reduction in mining time. I won't let a pilot mine silicone unless they are 3* or better but prefer them to be at least 4*. I do not know if they find ore faster or shoot khaaks better.

If you are mining silicone you can get another boost to mining speed by making sure there is a resource probe nearby. I just stock every mining ship with 10 resource probes. Then I wait until they found a spot to mine and tell them to drop a probe there. After a while the area will have 15 or 20 probes scattered about the "nodes" NPC miners use.

Sengar
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Sengar » Thu, 5. Aug 21, 19:24

What I gathered so far, is to do terraforming in order to train pilots, and not bother scaling up production before you have a couple hundred 4 star pilots.

I written and deleted the following over and over again, now I try to cut to the chase:

Information about how game mechanics works are (very) hard to come by.

Alm888
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Re: [Beta] Frustration About Silicon Mining

Post by Alm888 » Thu, 5. Aug 21, 19:37

Wultan wrote:
Thu, 5. Aug 21, 09:47
What are doing miners with more stars better? Are they mine faster, find ore faster, shot khaaks better?
I will not send a miner on a mission without at least 4★ pilot and crew! An L-class miner with decent (4★ crew rating) crew will fill its cargo hold in just 5 minutes or so while a 1★ one would struggle for hours!
And no, I would not consider 2★ pilot even remotely competent and suitable for skill-intensive tasks. Inter-station ware transfer is its upper limit. :)

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