Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

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Quinnell
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Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by Quinnell » Tue, 27. Jul 21, 23:11

I am looking for some advice on planning my sieges on xenon bases so their turrets don't rip my L and XL ships apart. I've tried dinking around with Coordinate Attack but it never seems to quite work. They're either too far or they don't use their forward batteries. Mostly-Terran fleet.
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jlehtone
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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by jlehtone » Tue, 27. Jul 21, 23:27

Shoot the dangerous turrets yourself.
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Erqco
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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by Erqco » Wed, 28. Jul 21, 01:26

Or OOB with a nice fleet or use one Asgard and destroy the modules yourself. OS your ships will be destroyed for the graviton turrets or when the modules explode (last beta). You can snipe the graviton turrets, with the Syn or the Asgard and then send everything.

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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by adeine » Wed, 28. Jul 21, 02:09

IS (in sector) you pretty much have to do it yourself. Alternatively, if you don't mind losses you can use torpedo boats or smaller ships to strip turrets and then send the artillery. If you have access to Commonwealth technology you can put plasma weapons on your destroyers, manually pilot them in range (or inch closer with move commands) and turn your turrets towards the target then teleport to the next ship and so on. Leaving them on hold position the turrets will help bring down the station.

OOS (out of sector) it's easier and you can generally rely on the AI if you have a group of destroyers. Just give all of them attack orders and watch their status occasionally. Stations tend to prioritise one target more than the others when it comes to L/XL ships, so if you notice shields getting lower on one of your ships you can give it a move command to a medium distance away and move it up in the command queue. The ship will fly to the marked position and recover shields as it does so while the station picks another preferred target, then return to join in with the attack. Rinse and repeat.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 28. Jul 21, 12:10

With Asgard, you can simply charge point blank to Xenon station - it's tanky enough to survive heavy fire for some time.

In Asgard large turrets put Terran Bolt and give them "attack my target command" - then switch to external view and target Xenon large turrets that shoot at you - your large turrets will destroy.+ them quite fast

This is by far the fastest and least irritating way to destroy Xenon stations.
Last edited by mr.WHO on Thu, 29. Jul 21, 09:27, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by Ezarkal » Wed, 28. Jul 21, 15:48

If you're the pilot, a rattlesnake is usually fast and tanky enough to do hit-and-run tactics. You'll require decent ship mods, though.
You could also use any other destroyer and use only long-range weapon to out-range the station's defense.

For AI captains, I had no luck with destroyers using long range weapons only. AI captains usually end up screwing things by getting too close. It requires a lot of babysitting.

I previously had success using nav beacons to plan an approach vector into one of the station's blind spot.
It's a lot of work, but I had some fun.


Otherwise, I recommend OOS battle. You'll have some loses, but if you come with a big enough attack force it will be reasonnable.



I didn't play much since 4.0 (real life obligations comes first), so I don't know how the Asgard changed all of this. My impression from what I've heard is that it's the easy solution, and is powerful to the point of being a bit anti-climatic. I'm not a big fan of having a ship that just one-shots everything. I'll probably try it for the sake of it when I get there, but I'm pretty sure I'll stay with a rattlesnake as my main command ship on the long run.
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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by jlehtone » Wed, 28. Jul 21, 16:13

Ezarkal wrote:
Wed, 28. Jul 21, 15:48
If you're the pilot, a rattlesnake is usually fast and tanky enough to do hit-and-run tactics.
Even unmodified Rattlesnake can snipe gravitons from safe distance. So can M Plasma, e.g. Nemesis.
With missiles even a scout can snipe turrets, but logistics is less fun.
Terran destroyers have longer range than Rattlesnake.

Point is, the station is not a serious threat. Shooting turrets personally just takes time.

What could be a threat are Defense Drones, and S/M/XL ships that Xenon could send to your tail. That is where a fleet could come to play; keep your six clear while you pop turrets.


The Asgard -- you can build or board them, but you cannot buy them. Building requires some pre-investment. Boarding might cost reputation; depends how cheesy you do it.

Asgard does not one-shot everything. Some Terran station modules require two hits. :roll:
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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by Quinnell » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 01:53

jlehtone wrote:
Wed, 28. Jul 21, 16:13
Point is, the station is not a serious threat. Shooting turrets personally just takes time.
Actually, even an Asgard with best Terran shields can be destroyed by a couple Ks or I with those damnable graviton turrets. They'll whittle the shields down and then blow you up. Out of System, it's definitely tankier. Maneuvering around the station to knock out all the gravitons is nigh impossible in an Asgard. It's pretty bad in a Syn as well. Wish the AI was easier to control so it would actually stay at range and bombard the station rather than give it a death hug.
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Erqco
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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by Erqco » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 02:41

Quinnell wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 01:53
jlehtone wrote:
Wed, 28. Jul 21, 16:13
Point is, the station is not a serious threat. Shooting turrets personally just takes time.
Actually, even an Asgard with best Terran shields can be destroyed by a couple Ks or I with those damnable graviton turrets. They'll whittle the shields down and then blow you up. Out of System, it's definitely tankier. Maneuvering around the station to knock out all the gravitons is nigh impossible in an Asgard. It's pretty bad in a Syn as well. Wish the AI was easier to control so it would actually stay at range and bombard the station rather than give it a death hug.
I am destroying three K and one I plus flies with an Asgard without problems. It is modded though, When I see that there is going to be a drone party I bring two Syns one in each side of it. The I need one shot and half and it is normally my first victim, keeping the distance is not a problem, then the K one shot( you don't need the full shot) each and done. The graviton are out of range if you are a little bit careful.

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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by Quinnell » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 04:36

Erqco wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 02:41
Quinnell wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 01:53
jlehtone wrote:
Wed, 28. Jul 21, 16:13
Point is, the station is not a serious threat. Shooting turrets personally just takes time.
Actually, even an Asgard with best Terran shields can be destroyed by a couple Ks or I with those damnable graviton turrets. They'll whittle the shields down and then blow you up. Out of System, it's definitely tankier. Maneuvering around the station to knock out all the gravitons is nigh impossible in an Asgard. It's pretty bad in a Syn as well. Wish the AI was easier to control so it would actually stay at range and bombard the station rather than give it a death hug.
I am destroying three K and one I plus flies with an Asgard without problems. It is modded though, When I see that there is going to be a drone party I bring two Syns one in each side of it. The I need one shot and half and it is normally my first victim, keeping the distance is not a problem, then the K one shot( you don't need the full shot) each and done. The graviton are out of range if you are a little bit careful.
Oh sure, if you can get your spinal laser trained on em, they're effectively deleted instantly. What sucks is if they maneuver out of your forward-firing area and come in behind. A few graviton turrets blasting you will definitely drain your shields!
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Erqco
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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by Erqco » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 05:48

Quinnell wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 04:36
Erqco wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 02:41
Quinnell wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 01:53


Actually, even an Asgard with best Terran shields can be destroyed by a couple Ks or I with those damnable graviton turrets. They'll whittle the shields down and then blow you up. Out of System, it's definitely tankier. Maneuvering around the station to knock out all the gravitons is nigh impossible in an Asgard. It's pretty bad in a Syn as well. Wish the AI was easier to control so it would actually stay at range and bombard the station rather than give it a death hug.
I am destroying three K and one I plus flies with an Asgard without problems. It is modded though, When I see that there is going to be a drone party I bring two Syns one in each side of it. The I need one shot and half and it is normally my first victim, keeping the distance is not a problem, then the K one shot( you don't need the full shot) each and done. The graviton are out of range if you are a little bit careful.
Oh sure, if you can get your spinal laser trained on em, they're effectively deleted instantly. What sucks is if they maneuver out of your forward-firing area and come in behind. A few graviton turrets blasting you will definitely drain your shields!
It is not "if" I am doing it, you can shot them from 12 km, they can not get out of reach. I start with the closest or more dangerous, it depends on the situation. I have had never a problem.

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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 07:02

Quinnell wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 01:53
jlehtone wrote:
Wed, 28. Jul 21, 16:13
Point is, the station is not a serious threat. Shooting turrets personally just takes time.
Actually, even an Asgard with best Terran shields can be destroyed by a couple Ks or I with those damnable graviton turrets.

Maneuvering around the station to knock out all the gravitons is nigh impossible in an Asgard. It's pretty bad in a Syn as well.
As I said: "the station" and "takes time". Gravitons that move (K/I) are a different case.

Granted, the last time I shot Xenon Station turrets, I had Rattlesnake; a ship faster than Syn.
Asgard ... does it even have to shoot the turrets? Shooting turrets was for making a station "safe" for AI fleet to demolish. Asgard surely can kill entire modules?
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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by mr.WHO » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 07:47

jlehtone wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 07:02
Asgard ... does it even have to shoot the turrets? Shooting turrets was for making a station "safe" for AI fleet to demolish. Asgard surely can kill entire modules?
The big/core Xenon modules can take even 3 Asgard XL Beam shots, so it takes time - much safer to take out turrets first.

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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by EGO_Aut » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 08:37

Phoenix hold distance IS 8)

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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by Elvis Aphtee » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 16:21

I'll assume you mean 'destroy' and not siege....

I've found Coordinate Attack works quite well if I do the following:

For Defence Platforms -

1) Take a personal destroyer (Modded Rattlesnake), fly to a point above the platform and reduce hull to approx 75-80%.
2) While I'm doing this, get my station destroyer group (9 x Behemoths) to fly to a point approx 11k above the platform.

Once both of the above criteria are met;

3) Coordinate Attack for the destroyer group. This sets a 'halo' above the station well out of range of the graviton guns (which on DefPlats appear to mostly be on the underside of the station anyway). Once triggered I find the Behemoths will let rip with L Plasmas and main guns. I've yet to lose a ship doing it this way, although I need to keep an eye on the two destroyers in the group with the lowest pilot rating as sometimes (approx. 1/5th of the time) they'll just fly to a ridiculous position and start getting chewed up by any remaining graviton guns. If this happens I remove all assignments and fly them to the Atlas I have for the group to repair if necessary.

For SPPs
Much the same as above.

For Shipyards / Wharfs:
1) As step 1 for DefPLats, but this time I destroy enough to trigger the inevitable outpouring of defence drones.
2) As steps 2 and 3 for DefPlats, but once the defence drones are deployed, I remove the Coordinate Attack order and just let the destroyers' flak turrets deal with the drones before reissuing a CA order.

I've not tried to attack any of the stations in Tharka's Cascade Sectors as yet, so I don't know how the danger zones in there will affect the approach, but this method has been effective in clearing out Xenon-held sectors in my game from Wretched Skies Family Valka through Family Zhin and all the way 'north' to Matrix 598 all of which I now 'own'.

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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by af_2017 » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 17:10

EGO_Aut wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 08:37
Phoenix hold distance IS 8)
I suspect that any ship with main weapons keeps the weapons range.
Quinnell wrote:
Tue, 27. Jul 21, 23:11
I am looking for some advice on planning my sieges on xenon bases so their turrets don't rip my L and XL ships apart. I've tried dinking around with Coordinate Attack but it never seems to quite work. They're either too far or they don't use their forward batteries. Mostly-Terran fleet.
Attempt to build a ship which will stand rain of plasma from graviton turrets is worthless.
Considering explosion damage (or is it in beta only?) the safest way is to use plasma turrets which range is longer than graviton turrets and position ships manually. As an example PAR L plasma turrets have 8.9 km.
You can even use one raptor, that will take some time of not very interesting waiting.

Before explosion damage it was possible to use fleet of small fighters with plasmas. Like 50 chimeras oer one raptor. 7 raptors and 350 chimeras melts everything in couple of minutes with about 5 fps.
I used coordinate attack without autorelease that keeps ships on positions and in range of plasma turrets.
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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 17:17

Elvis Aphtee wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 16:21
I'll assume you mean 'destroy' and not siege....

the graviton guns (which on DefPlats appear to mostly be on the underside of the station anyway).
The Xenon defense module has two pairs of gravitons. One up, one down. Each pair is protected by L shield.

Whether all four turrets are in place depends on how much time/resources the station has had to set them up. "Old" stations have all hardpoints occupied. "Fresh" modules do not. Some turrets are actually built before the module is ready. It might very well be that the order of assembly starts from "underside".


Good point. A 'siege' would be to stop any ship reaching or leaving the besieged station?
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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by ZaphodBeeblebrox » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 17:48

I have a fleet of 13 ships. Leader is an Osaka. All ships are over 3 * minimum.

The Defense station looks like a figure 8 from above. I split my fleet into two with 6 either side of the 8 to left and right. So they are out of weapon range of the station. Using Fly and Wait.

I then pilot the Osaka to within firing range and then order both wings to attack. They will fly to within main weapon range and begin attacking the station.

Keep an eye on your ships, occasionally 1 or maybe even 2 will go kamikaze. Stop them and order them to fly to a safe distance using fly and wait. You may have to repeatedly cancel an attack override
which is a pile of ..... If I give a direct order to a ship then it should NOT be overriden.

Using this method I have emptied every Xenon sector bar 1. All other stations when viewed from above will have a shape that can be fitted into a rectangle. Always attack from the two sides where the rectangle is the narrowest.

Oh, by the way, you will probably need to bring several fleets, to block gates and protect your back while attacking the stations.

[edit]
All ships obviously have main batteries. Plus all L turrets are plasma (or for Terran bolt) with all M turrets being bolt to hold off M and S ships. Including defense drones.
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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by EGO_Aut » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 19:44

af_2017 wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 17:10
EGO_Aut wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 08:37
Phoenix hold distance IS 8)
I suspect that any ship with main weapons keeps the weapons range.
Quinnell wrote:
Tue, 27. Jul 21, 23:11
I am looking for .....
Phoenix main guns have a good range and are not so stupid like Odyddeus and Behemoth captains, proof me wrong :wink:

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Re: Tips on Sieging a Xenon starbase

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 29. Jul 21, 21:19

EGO_Aut wrote:
Thu, 29. Jul 21, 19:44
Phoenix main guns have a good range and are not so stupid like Odyddeus and Behemoth captains, proof me wrong :wink:
Numbers from Roguey. Clearly rounded.
PAR: 11 km, ARG, TEL: 10 km, TER: 9 km, SPL 7 km
In practice Rattler's HUD shows 6.3 km when target is barely in range and 5.3 km when Gravitons start to hurt.

By numbers, captain of Oddy should have more "room" that Phoenix and Behemoth should tie with the Teladi.
In fact, being slower, the Behemoth should have more time to stop crawling towards the target.

I can't remember whom I had assigned to the Phoenix that did sail to Shipyard; the Xenon one that had Gravitons. RIP. :|
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