Things we need in X4 - After playing X³: Farnham's Legacy

[mr.WHO]

Last week I've been playing Farnham's Legacy and I found it suprising that it's holds well comparing to X4.

While I love X4 RTS GUI (X3 GUI gives me nightmares), there are things in FL that are superior and worth porting:


1) Diplomacy and Agents:
Ability to recruit and send agents to missions to obtain blueprints, hack stations, steal ships, boost relations - this would be something that goes well with NPC skill system, we could have non-pilot, non-manager NPC that we could level up and it would be nice to have Diplomats and Agent rooms in HQ.

2) HQ to be able to recycle ships for resources (why this is still missing in X4?) and reverse engineer the blueprints.

3) Remote sectors that we can explore and re-connect with buildable Trans-Orbital Accelerators - Argon Prime has several sectors in FL, yet in X4 it's only one sector :/

4) Explorers Guild - ALI would be good to takeover Explorers feature as they are currently more or less a placeholder faction. ALI suppose to be faction that wants to support and re-connect lost sectors, so it would be logical for them to pay for sector exploration and build TOA to explored sectors.

[Raptor34]

As long as there is none of that DR shit.
Also streamline the way it takes to get agents. I don't like what I'm reading to get them.

[mr.WHO]

As long as there is none of that DR shit.
Also streamline the way it takes to get agents. I don't like what I'm reading to get them.

Yep, I'd rather prefer pernament Agents, than limited-task use agents that dissapear.

As for Dynamic Relations, it would be good, as long as there is an option to be neutral party friendly with everyone - I mean both Google and Nike have no problem doing bussiness both in US and China/Russia.

[Raptor34]

As long as there is none of that DR shit.
Also streamline the way it takes to get agents. I don't like what I'm reading to get them.

Yep, I'd rather prefer pernament Agents, than limited-task use agents that dissapear.

As for Dynamic Relations, it would be good, as long as there is an option to be neutral party friendly with everyone - I mean both Google and Nike have no problem doing bussiness both in US and China/Russia.

I meant more about how reading the forums it seems after awhile only certain types of missions give agents. But that can be tweaked. Permanent is good though.
As for DR, I like the current system. Though ironically X4 suits DR way better than X3FL. Just read about how you need Split goods for your Argon ships and that tells you enough, at least in X4 sticking to Argon only is actually a viable option.
I still want to +30 everyone though. The convenience is too great, unless you let me pay for it, like an intelligence network or something.
As for RE, I hope the next supposed piracy DLC will have that. I also hope their code is flexible enough that you can have percentages of a blueprint. That way there is still a good reason for you to buy blueprints. I'll make it that ships you have to cap needs less to get a full blueprint while those you board needs more.

Other things I like from FL is those bailed pilots having a destination they'll pay you to take them to, especially since you have space legs now, it seems like a fun thing to add.
Also bring back the OP super player ships from X3, make it something you cannot RE/buy/build, a unique one of a kind ship. And make it a corvette/gunship hybrid, no S class docking because that limits the design too much imo, but well, the Cobra and Falx do look decent, Gorgon too.
And TPs once again, since we can now walk around our passengers. Could be a nice touch if you can have the passengers just board and take their seats.

Don't actually care for more sectors though. Don't really see the point.
Exploration could be nice, but I don't expect much there.

[Erqco]

As long as there is none of that DR shit.
Also streamline the way it takes to get agents. I don't like what I'm reading to get them.

Yep, I'd rather prefer pernament Agents, than limited-task use agents that dissapear.

As for Dynamic Relations, it would be good, as long as there is an option to be neutral party friendly with everyone - I mean both Google and Nike have no problem doing bussiness both in US and China/Russia.

NO, DR is not working. Agents make no sense, " This guy has destroyed one of yours armadas but it is a nice guy"

DR do nothing for the play-ability of the game, been a free game for a saga with so many players, actually have a minuscule number of players active because
those changes, it has great things, but the DR as it is now, is destroying the fun part of the game.

[Axeface]

What I learnt about X4 from putting about 100 hours or more in FL.

- Too many sectors is not a good thing, X4 should concentrate on improving current sectors (ala X Rebirth) rather than adding more, and when more are added care should be taken to not bloat the game.
- I HATE missions that spawn enemies, like station defence, please do not ever reintroduce them. Make station defence missions spawn at stations in sectors with active enemy presence, or, stations that are already under attack (there are a lot).
Same applies to escort missions.
- I hate the jumpdrive and the damage it does to gameplay, X4s approach is so much better.
- I HATE collision damage.
- In X4 ships are too fast. Combat in X3 is far slower and this feels better imo. Most good space games had pretty slow combat.
- The diplomacy/agent mechanics from FL could be added to X4. The espionage options are very cool.
- Dynamic Relations should be implemented into X4 but it should instead of reducing rep by a number, apply caps to your maximum. The maximum cap should be to neutral, it should not force us to hostilities with enemies of our allies.
- We need more reasons to want to be rank 30 with a faction in X4. Exclusive, excellent weapons we cant produce ourselves (dont sell blueprints) could be one.

[mr.WHO]

- In X4 ships are too fast. Combat in X3 is far slower and this feels better imo. Most good space games had pretty slow combat.

I feel the opposite - the X3 ships speeds are painfully slow both in combat and travel (even with max SETA).
X4 speeds feels just rights.

[Shehriazad]

DR for me would only work in X4 if there was some more logic attached to it.

In FL whenever I gain rep with faction X, I automatically lose rep with Faction Y...why? How? It just makes no sense unless you do something very major that would always be known by everyone (Like creating a black hole bomb and deleting an entire sector off the grid). X3:FL handles it VERY unnaturally. I trade with the Split in some back-end sector with nobody but Split being nearby...yet EVERYONE instantly knows about my actions.
Is every single station in the universe wiretapped? Even the ones' that the other factions CAN'T know?

DR should allow to exploit the system in a realistic manner to, for example climb the ranks with the Split without the Argon knowing it...and me then turning into a double agent for the Split and starting to build up a career with them as well. DR in FL was the thing I liked the least about it because it was implemented in such a "haphazard" way.


But back on topic...there are quite a few things from FL I'd love to see in X4.

Recycling/Reverse engineering being a big part of it.
But I think we could also need big factions to also have corporation/entities as sub-groups. Why is everything in X4 handled by the "state"? Everyone uses credits and buying/selling works like it's full-on capitalism...but every single thing is directly owned by a faction as if this was some sort of centralized communist hodge-podge.

Oh and the Kogarasu Maru...we certainly need that

Edit: Also yes, big thumbs up for something like an explorers guild with new stuff to find all over the universe at regular intervals.

[Old Drullo321]

Adding DR into X4 would be the death of the game. DR in X3:FL is one of the most controversal features, even worse then having to fly the ugly Skunk in X:Rebirth. Besides any other pro and contra, the X-series was always a game where you could be friend with everyone and why not. Why should you loss rep with faction B when killing the generally disliked Xenon for faction A. Additionally it stops you from just doing missions for fun, e.g. taxi mission here, build a station there.
While I'm a diehard X3 fan, I instantly stopped playing FL forever when I was confronted with the DR system the first time. Never ever conclude it into X4

[Chaos Master]

Other people really like the feature though. I think it gives decisions more weight.

Of course the implementation in X3FL isn't great. Probably not for a lack of trying but because of limitations.

In the context of X4, sure a taxi mission shouldn't decrease your reputation with an opposing faction. Neither should any mission related to killing Xenon or Khaak. Neither should a mission to build a factory. Or trading in general.

But what if you build a defense platform for the Antigone Republic in second contact? The Holy Order should be fuming, yet they don't care one bit, it makes no sense.

If you take a mission to kill some HOP miners you get a slight reputation loss for shooting the ships, but really finishing such a mission should absolutely destroy your reputation with them, not just tickle it.

Doing any of the Argon war against the HOP missions should also have a massive impact.

Of course if lots of people dislike it maybe it should be optional.

[Ketraar]

Of course if lots of people dislike it maybe it should be optional.

You cant make this type of thing optional, its either part of the game design or it isn't. I have already stated the reasons for experimenting with in X3FL, but its the type of thing that has a lot of implications, not least balancing.

MFG

Ketraar

[Falcrack]

One thing I noticed in FL, was that the charts showing station profitability in FL are far superior to those in X4.

[chip56]

What I learnt about X4 from putting about 100 hours or more in FL.

- Too many sectors is not a good thing, X4 should concentrate on improving current sectors (ala X Rebirth) rather than adding more, and when more are added care should be taken to not bloat the game.
- I HATE missions that spawn enemies, like station defence, please do not ever reintroduce them. Make station defence missions spawn at stations in sectors with active enemy presence, or, stations that are already under attack (there are a lot).
Same applies to escort missions.
- I hate the jumpdrive and the damage it does to gameplay, X4s approach is so much better.
- I HATE collision damage.
- In X4 ships are too fast. Combat in X3 is far slower and this feels better imo. Most good space games had pretty slow combat.
- The diplomacy/agent mechanics from FL could be added to X4. The espionage options are very cool.
- Dynamic Relations should be implemented into X4 but it should instead of reducing rep by a number, apply caps to your maximum. The maximum cap should be to neutral, it should not force us to hostilities with enemies of our allies.
- We need more reasons to want to be rank 30 with a faction in X4. Exclusive, excellent weapons we cant produce ourselves (dont sell blueprints) could be one.

Its interesting that some of your points are pretty much the exact opposide of what i think:
In x4 there are so many patrol mission where you just sit in the sector for 20 minutes and nothing, absolutly nothing happens. I would far more prefer to have at least some spawns in that case. Now of course you could make an argument that those spawns should not be as big as in X3FL with capitals spawning but having at least some enemies there would make those missions far more interesting.

While i like the teleport feature I think that the jumpdrive would make sense in x4 too. If it would be far more expensive and pretty much cost a couple millions you would not use it for every ship but it would still make sense for carrier ships and your own personal ship. I actually loved the "oh damn" moments in X3 when a enemey cap ship jumps in or the "cavallery has arrived" moment when you are outgunned against an enemy fleet and some allied m2 jump in. That feeling i really missed in X4. While jumping to other ships via teleport is a nice mechanic for x4 I do like having my own personal ship and being able to be where the action is fast without having to travel all over the map.

Collision damage: its a kind of hate love for me. Of course i hate it when my ships randomly crash into a station or the "auto death" aka auto pliot decides flying straight into a gate is a great idea. However in battles actually being able to use your own bigger ship as ramming weapon can be fun. Maybe making collision non lethal but being able to reduce your hull down to 1% would avoid the auto death scenario but still make collision something that actually matters?

[Cdaragorn]

But what if you build a defense platform for the Antigone Republic in second contact? The Holy Order should be fuming, yet they don't care one bit, it makes no sense.

This is why I hate this idea. Lots of people insist it's how relations work in RL but it's literally not.

This example actually makes perfect sense. Why would they get ticked off at the manufacturer of the station? That's what makes no sense. Antigone Republic is the one they set their sites on in this case and rightfully so. Who cares who built the station? The one using it is who matters.

[Chaos Master]

Why would they get ticked off at the manufacturer of the station? That's what makes no sense. Antigone Republic is the one they set their sites on in this case and rightfully so. Who cares who built the station? The one using it is who matters.

But you're not just building some station for an enemy faction, you're building a military installation in an active warzone. You're the one planning and digging the trenches.

[Erqco]

Why would they get ticked off at the manufacturer of the station? That's what makes no sense. Antigone Republic is the one they set their sites on in this case and rightfully so. Who cares who built the station? The one using it is who matters.

But you're not just building some station for an enemy faction, you're building a military installation in an active warzone. You're the one planning and digging the trenches.

I have not problem understanding this, I have problems with the dangerous taxi missions, or destroying everyone friends, Xenon or pirates. Is it a game doing so great that we need to copy all of it in X4 ?:(

Now I am enjoying a lot X4, game that I was postponing for a long time.

That has been the best part for me, about FL.

Don't get me wrong there are incredible good things on it but the DR in the actual state make the game not fun for most of the players. You can read here, in the forum how many post and comments about the DR and I think that most of the players could enjoy the system if it will be changed and make it more playable.

Like anyone can see in the Steam stats, for a free game with so many fans, the numbers are sad.
https://steamdb.info/app/483330/graphs/

[mr.WHO]

IMO, some kind of Dynamic Relations would be good in X4.

X4 has no DR and it's boring, while FL has bit too harsh DR - something between would be perfect for X4 - something that would not make being friendly with everyone imposible, but also not let you openly and wastly support one faction and have no impression on their enemies.

Someone here proposed that some, military like actions should be penalized by enemies, but something like trading shouldn't - I think this is a good start.

[mr.WHO]

Another thing that I enjoy much more in FL are generic missions, their variety and progression.

Like today I had a convoy escort and the missions get progressively more challenging. Intially there were M5 with ocasional M4, then, when my combat rank progressed, there were M5, M4 with ocassional M3.

Today I had a mission with bunch of M3 when Pirate corvette first occurence.
I had a lot of fun in my Nemesis.



Comparing to that X4 generic missions are not only boring crap, but also static boring crap.
Combat missions in X4 are not only rare but extremely boring - like dreadful, kill 2xP - always, anywhere, everywhere.
Zero effort and imagination.

[flywlyx]

both Google and Nike have no problem doing bussiness both in US and China/Russia.

Google.com is perma banned by mainland China and Nike is suffering from boycott. While China and US is not even close to a cold war condition(-15), they are almost the biggest business partner to eachother.

X4 universe has plenty total war(-20), it is fun to be the biggest warmonger in universe, but it is barely comparable to reality.

[Perkel]

DR for me would only work in X4 if there was some more logic attached to it.

In FL whenever I gain rep with faction X, I automatically lose rep with Faction Y...why? How? It just makes no sense unless you do something very major that would always be known by everyone

You trade with someone enemy. Why that faction should like you ?

For example Sweden (or was it norway ?) in WW2 got attacked by allies because they were providing iron for Nazis.

"It is just a trade yo" doesn't work in geopolitics.