Xenon faction useless ?

[bof111]

Hi again,

So after 5 days of ingame time I see the the classic problem of xenon being crushed down by everyone indeed. I don't have any big influence on the balance of powers as i did only the plots (without concluding them for the war making ones) and some satellite missions or exploration.
That said, i'm asking myself if this is not intended to be.
The half plot "heart for pirate" giving for objective to wipe out the xenon sectors around the Yaki and the Terran Asgard routine attacking only xenon sectors seems to me like if the devs wanted the xenon to get exterminated at one point.
Now, from this i was thinking about all this, and i came to some observations :
-You cannot get friendly with xenon and never will be able to. (this means no trade by any way)
- You cannot cap any of there ships and probably never will be able to. (even the M or N don't bail as they did in Rebirth or X3)
- They don't have any blueprints or unique drop when killed.
- BUT there is 2 guild faction missions that are against them. (Terran / Argon) Which have as unique rewards 2 paintjobs.

So my main question here is for the guys that have not xenon anymore in there game : do the guild missions are still active after xenon extermination and even if some of them are not doable anymore, can you still get some of them with the paintjobs that doable ? (example : ware delivery, satelite deploy)
Because i don't see the use for the xenons finally or i'm a missing something ?

Thanks.

[Malchar]

You didnt miss that much. May be, and I m not sure xenons drop a component needed for the seta. At least for one element, I was never able to obtain it from kha ak.

[Panos]

Hi again,

So after 5 days of ingame time I see the the classic problem of xenon being crushed down by everyone indeed. I don't have any big influence on the balance of powers as i did only the plots (without concluding them for the war making ones) and some satellite missions or exploration.
That said, i'm asking myself if this is not intended to be.
The half plot "heart for pirate" giving for objective to wipe out the xenon sectors around the Yaki and the Terran Asgard routine attacking only xenon sectors seems to me like if the devs wanted the xenon to get exterminated at one point.
Now, from this i was thinking about all this, and i came to some observations :
-You cannot get friendly with xenon and never will be able to. (this means no trade by any way)
- You cannot cap any of there ships and probably never will be able to. (even the M or N don't bail as they did in Rebirth or X3)
- They don't have any blueprints or unique drop when killed.
- BUT there is 2 guild faction missions that are against them. (Terran / Argon) Which have as unique rewards 2 paintjobs.

So my main question here is for the guys that have not xenon anymore in there game : do the guild missions are still active after xenon extermination and even if some of them are not doable anymore, can you still get some of them with the paintjobs that doable ? (example : ware delivery, satelite deploy)
Because i don't see the use for the xenons finally or i'm a missing something ?

Thanks.

a) If you play Terran Cadet start, Xenon are bit on the back foot. Same applies if you play 4.0 and not 4.10 patch. However that is the case at the North not South East side of the map where they kick TEL hard.
b) Mining changes affect Xenon with 4.0 and but not 4.10 patch if you start new game
c) We never meant to be friendly with Xenon. They are the borg, replicators, skynet.
d) Their ships are just a big AI machine. They are MACHINES after all. We cannot capture them
e) Why we need BP or something unique as loot from them?

You can install mods which will make XEN tought, but you will not be able to complete 2 campaing paths for the TER campaign.
Also you can always pit TER against ANT and help HOP against ARG if you feel ARG/TER are hitting hard your beloved XEN.

[Diroc]

Xenon perform a vital function in X4. To say they keep things in balance is a huge overstatement (which is unfortunate) but they are a sink for resources to go.
A happy friendly hug it out universe is pretty boring.
Careful consideration is required before wiping them out.
Deliberate player action is required to preserve them. (Due to Asgard raids introduced in CoH)

[Malchar]

b) Mining changes affect Xenon with 4.0 and but not 4.10 patch if you start new game

I have a vague remembrance this problem was denied to exist.

c) We never meant to be friendly with Xenon. They are the borg, replicators, skynet.

The geths ? ok it is a kind of exception. Usually AI and insects have bad reputation in SF.

d) Their ships are just a big AI machine. They are MACHINES after all. We cannot capture them

Capture means boarding for you I presume. Of course this option dont exist, at least yet at x4, but I think common sense when you speak about capture a xenon, means hacking or neutralize using EMP.

Xenon perform a vital function in X4.

In fact it is war the real economic engine, but xenons were probably the major and most obvious actors for that. They were spread everywhere in the universe and at war against everyone.

[grapedog]

Xenon perform a vital function in X4. To say they keep things in balance is a huge overstatement (which is unfortunate) but they are a sink for resources to go.
A happy friendly hug it out universe is pretty boring.
Careful consideration is required before wiping them out.
Deliberate player action is required to preserve them. (Due to Asgard raids introduced in CoH)

In my oldest game, i wiped them out mostly because they WERE A SCOURGE!!!!!!.... and left one pocket alive in Emperor's Pride. But the stupid overpowered Terrans have just about wiped out that area. A few defense stations left, but no shipbuilding, and I don't think they can recover. That universe is mostly boring now... as I've completed a number of plots, not much fighting happens anymore. So I'm using that save just to work on the Terraforming steam achievements. But sadly I won't play it much anymore once I finish those.

I wish I hadn't wiped them out. In new game starts, I just keep them contained away from the main superhighway sectors, but I give them a sector or two of NPC space to play in for each area they occupy. They're a great ship/money sink and keep things a little lively.

[Nort The Fragrent]

Xenon are what humans will become in the not too distant future !

Just look at what X4 and other games are teaching us, shoot and kill stuff !

The ones with the better killing will prevail,

I think the Xenon need to be ones you stay well clear off, if you take them on , they teach us dumb gun slinging humans a bloody lesson. And make you suffer.. like really suffer. Till your empire is but a smouldering ember.

It’s about time the Xenon got teeth, fangs, claws, and ripped players who take them on apart.

[bof111]

Deliberate player action is required to preserve them. (Due to Asgard raids introduced in CoH)

Yep i saw it and confirm. I'm on the 4 asgard that i should shoot down to prevent a rampage. I think there is too much pressure on them, so this is why they collapse. I observed them carefully and they try to fight but can't defend there sectors effectively, i don't even talk about attacking.

For the mining thing, i didn't saw anything really problematic. As the AI has the same system anyway the "equation" stays balanced.
No the real problem with them, is the pressure on them and the range of there station weapons. The stations get blown away by one or two cap ship that gets sitting out of range of the station but can still fire with the main battery. Btw i was happy to see the AI was able to exploit the range difference effectively.

And personally i would like to see them too with a bit more of punch but as a 100% vanilla player i look at the devs vision of the game and try to understand what they where thinking when making the game.
Because i'm not saying here if i should wiped the xenons out or not. I'm just seeing that on the long term they will get wiped whatever i do. So i'm asking if they really provide something unique and vital to the game.
No the real thing that concerns me is the guild TER / ARG war missions against xenon. If they are still doable to get the unique paintjob they provide after xenon extermination ?

For the ressource sink, i understand well the idea but it seems to me that you have 2 choices :
- peaceful plots conclusions -> all friends, universe stops. (the xenon will get wiped out due to too much pressure as they stay the only enemy for everyone)
- warmonger plots conclusions -> fights everywhere, all good for the universe engine. (the xenon can stay alive or not, not a big difference anyway)
So it seems to me the xenon are a secondary part of this aspect.

On the second hand i admit that the fighting aspect (in general) of the game is really low. Haa the good old times of X3 xenon invasions when you could exterminate hundreds of ships without worrying about reputation loss.

[jlehtone]

It’s about time the Xenon got teeth, fangs, claws, and ripped players who take them on apart.

The crucial part is "players who take them on". What if you don't take them on, because you don't want to fight? Will the Xenon leave you in peace?

What if you build a shipyard to supply ships to HOP, because HOP does take on Xenon and then does need ships. Are you still a Goner?

[Raevyan]

It’s about time the Xenon got teeth, fangs, claws, and ripped players who take them on apart.

The crucial part is "players who take them on". What if you don't take them on, because you don't want to fight? Will the Xenon leave you in peace?

What if you build a shipyard to supply ships to HOP, because HOP does take on Xenon and then does need ships. Are you still a Goner?

Other factions will deal with the xenons because we get patches with horrible balance problems, which they won’t fix for month.

[af_2017]

So my main question here is for the guys that have not xenon anymore in there game : do the guild missions are still active after xenon extermination and even if some of them are not doable anymore, can you still get some of them with the paintjobs that doable ? (example : ware delivery, satelite deploy)
Because i don't see the use for the xenons finally or i'm a missing something ?

Argon vs Xenon and Terran vs Xenon missions will disappear.
Mainly because these missions in the game are not generated for player but part of the way the faction play war - this is according to my observations.
That is, they might do the missions without you if you are too late.
Or the missions will disappear because there's no requirements for them. That is, not Xenon - no treat - nothing to do with Xenons.

...As for my story "how i saved xenons".
I have declared war to terrans and vanished their sectors. Asteroid belt is my sector. I am guarding the area and killing terran ships on sight.
Now I can see that ZYA tries to make interventions toward Yaki's sectors, so far captured only hazardous Tharka's one and as i can see that the max what i can expect from them.
Xenon spreads to ANT sectors, already has one defense platform and attacking ANT trading station.
Xenon spreads to FRF sectors.
I have a plan to build and sell two Asgards to ANT and FRF, lets see if it will help them.
Also I have a war with ARG which has only two sectors letf in my game, so I think they are quite busy and without Xenons.

As a summary I may state, that I did save Xenons.

[Malchar]

The crucial part is "players who take them on". What if you don't take them on, because you don't want to fight? Will the Xenon leave you in peace?

What if you build a shipyard to supply ships to HOP, because HOP does take on Xenon and then does need ships. Are you still a Goner?

That s x4 problem, it have several target at once, so is doomed to miss all of them.

It lets the compromise solution, but we can say a compromise is good, when nobody is satisfied of it.

[bof111]

Argon vs Xenon and Terran vs Xenon missions will disappear.
Mainly because these missions in the game are not generated for player but part of the way the faction play war - this is according to my observations.
That is, they might do the missions without you if you are too late.
Or the missions will disappear because there's no requirements for them. That is, not Xenon - no treat - nothing to do with Xenons.

This is critical ! Are you absolutely sure of it ?
Because ok for the missions like "wipe xenon station/turrets". It is logical that those will vanish.
But i have the impression that the more economic ones, like "refill X station with wares" or "drop satellites/mines" or even "build a base/fleet" will maybe stay as they have no purpose other than giving the player something to do. And i'm telling this because i saw on many occasions those type of missions respawn for other war factions and just pilling goals up.
As an example : satellite dropping. I've done many missions of this type where the same faction wanted the same satellite pilling them on at the same spot. So logically, if it would be really dynamical one satellite would be enough and the mission should spawn when the satellite is destroyed or at another location.
That's why i would really be glad if someone confirms it.

[PowerPC603]

I built defense stations in front of the gates where the Xenon come out of their territory, so they are just cannon fodder.
The defense station has 15 argon disc platforms with plasma turrets and flak turrets and has a dock as well and a small S ship using a repeat order to collect drops and dock at the station.
This way, the ship regularly gets away from the gate in case a K or I comes through.
And I teleport regularly onboard to claim the pilot's inventory, which includes alot of items you can sell at any trader.
Like Programmable field arrays, damaged singularity engines, flux capacitors, spacefly eggs, majaglit and alot more.

I have 2 such stations (one in Hatikvah and one in The Void) and ships for now and those make a very nice extra profit.

[Botschafter Von Den Glück]

Xenon, the deadliest and most feared foe of mankind, should not be in that 'babysitting the xenon' role.
its out of Scope going KI,
and they should somehow behave like.
and this must function

and this is about to get a real buildup, earlier than other game can.

so the xenon 4.0 are ahead of all times.
they are just preparing ;;;