A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

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ubuntufreakdragon
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Re: A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

Post by ubuntufreakdragon » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 16:23

I've started testing the beta, so far Tharkas Cascade is brimming with K's and I's.
I have to wait a bit for the beta to show its effects, but xenon seam to be very active.
My X3 Mods

XRebirth, things left to patch:
In General; On Firing NPC's; In De Vries; Out Of Zone; And the Antiwishlist

Alm888
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Re: A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

Post by Alm888 » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 16:36

A typical picture since 4.0.
In my current game they still have "Matrix #9" (sort of properly, with a Wharf and a Shipyard), "Scale Plate Green I" (unsure about the status) and "Atiya's Misfortune I" (most probably only nominally because of ANT/HOP interlock). And I have slaughtered them personally only in the "Tharka's Cascade -- Savage Spur" cluster because HAT is a non-faction and did nothing to fight (otherwise, I suppose, all that territory would be colored turquoise by now :) ).

That is with CoH, but without SV, by the way. This setup, IMHO, heavily skews the balance against the Xenon, as the CoH adds another super-powerful faction hell-bent on eliminating them and only a single new XEN sector (with a logistics trap to boot). Luckily, when I add SV, the XEN will have their chance to recoup in SV sectors.

P.S. Teladi are on my list next. They need to be punished for harboring SCA and looting for territory while everyone else is busy in-fighting.

Raevyan
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Re: A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

Post by Raevyan » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 17:31

CBJ wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 00:51
Malchar wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 00:17
...nothing was done in the 4.1.
That is not true. There is an entry that says:

• Improved low attention combat involving multiple capital ships.

This is very relevant to how battles involving the Xenon turn out when the player isn't present.
You’d really need to find a way to bring them back in games like OP. In my opinion the only feasible way that won’t affect anyone else would be to introduce a new plot line that unlock new xenon sectors adjacent to the current ones from where they will try to spread again. Those sector would also need sufficient resources. Sure developing a plot (however long that will be) is additional work. You could at least just add some sectors and put some fleets in and maybe make it optional by talking to Dal. 4.00 heavily screwed them up and it took more than 3 month now until some changes appeared in beta branch.

Might be just my opinion and you most likely don’t care but for me that’s a reason to just abandon X4 now. I’m not inclined to start over again because you released 4.00 in such a poor balanced state and took way too long to fix it. I really hope you do something about it with the 4.10 release version though.

Waltz9
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Re: A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

Post by Waltz9 » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 17:33

CBJ wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 00:51
Malchar wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 00:17
...nothing was done in the 4.1.
That is not true. There is an entry that says:

• Improved low attention combat involving multiple capital ships.

This is very relevant to how battles involving the Xenon turn out when the player isn't present.
Sorry CBJ but the mining doesnt work wel at all. The Xenon are getting starved and like this the game is very boring and completely out of balance.
Its no problem for any faction to push back the xenon now and with the terron sending in very powerfull ships. you can just sit back and relax. the xenon are no thread at all anymore.

I started using a mod which increases mine densitity and in my game the xenon are present everywhere and really being the thread they where in 3.3
So I politely ask you to adjust the mining fearture again so it wont affect the game that much. A roll back would be better so i can stop using the mining mod.

I prefer to play the game in vanilla but in the state it is in now, this is impossible.

garffield
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Re: A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

Post by garffield » Wed, 23. Jun 21, 08:47

I'm not really sure whether it is related to the mining changes as for myself and also the other factions there appears to be no shortage on solid/liquid resources. I only had to build dedicated mining stations. However, there apparently is something wrong with the Xenon as they do send out some fleets (including Ks and sometimes an additional I) but their fleets get vaporised rather soon by any faction.
So I also started using a MOD that reduces the build cost and time for Xenon stations and ships to about half the vanilla cost. Still Xenon struggle hard to survive as they virtually loose all fights against ships or stations.

I made a backup of my vanilla game and hope that the Xenon will find back their former strength and become at least some kind of challenge again.

mediacenter
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Re: A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

Post by mediacenter » Wed, 23. Jun 21, 10:00

CBJ wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 00:51
Malchar wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 00:17
...nothing was done in the 4.1.
That is not true. There is an entry that says:

• Improved low attention combat involving multiple capital ships.

This is very relevant to how battles involving the Xenon turn out when the player isn't present.
i fear this statement

"improved" what that mean?
xenon are now extremely strong oos or destroyers fleet get nerfed to the ground?

Ragnos28
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Re: A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

Post by Ragnos28 » Wed, 23. Jun 21, 10:48

mediacenter wrote:
Wed, 23. Jun 21, 10:00
CBJ wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 00:51
Malchar wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 00:17
...nothing was done in the 4.1.
That is not true. There is an entry that says:

• Improved low attention combat involving multiple capital ships.

This is very relevant to how battles involving the Xenon turn out when the player isn't present.
i fear this statement

"improved" what that mean?
xenon are now extremely strong oos or destroyers fleet get nerfed to the ground?
I share your fear...giving past experience of how Egosoft operates...something gonna get nerfed to the ground :doh:

CBJ
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
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Re: A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

Post by CBJ » Wed, 23. Jun 21, 11:26

Nothing has been nerfed or buffed; your assumptions that a) it is that simple and b) we just wildly change a few numbers without careful analysis are both false.

The release note relates to improvements in how the "low attention" simulation works. Our tests indicated that a significant part of the problem with the weakness of the Xenon was that the simulation wasn't taking into account the effect that larger fleets have on the progress of battles. The improvements we've made adjust the frequency of damage application, to better simulate the complexities of ships manoeuvring in large battle situations.

mediacenter
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Re: A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

Post by mediacenter » Wed, 23. Jun 21, 12:22

CBJ wrote:
Wed, 23. Jun 21, 11:26
Nothing has been nerfed or buffed; your assumptions that a) it is that simple and b) we just wildly change a few numbers without careful analysis are both false.

The release note relates to improvements in how the "low attention" simulation works. Our tests indicated that a significant part of the problem with the weakness of the Xenon was that the simulation wasn't taking into account the effect that larger fleets have on the progress of battles. The improvements we've made adjust the frequency of damage application, to better simulate the complexities of ships manoeuvring in large battle situations.
nerf it is then
now my fleet will be rolling and turning even oos to simulate the stupidity of the AI when im is


"careful analysis" lol
the same analysis that bring us here, where the xenon pass from a big deal to scared puppy in a patch

i guess i have to trust you, after all i cant prevent steam to download the new patch in any way so......joke on me i suppose

CBJ
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
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Re: A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

Post by CBJ » Wed, 23. Jun 21, 12:59

I won't bother trying to explain in future then.

Rei Ayanami
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Re: A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

Post by Rei Ayanami » Wed, 23. Jun 21, 13:50

mediacenter wrote:
Wed, 23. Jun 21, 12:22
nerf it is then
Not every bugfix or adjustment is a "nerf". The OOS calculations were made more accurate, this does not mean that something got "buffed" or "nerfed".
mediacenter wrote:
Wed, 23. Jun 21, 12:22
"careful analysis" lol
the same analysis that bring us here, where the xenon pass from a big deal to scared puppy in a patch
It's the tradeoff of having a fully dynamic game with dynamic economy : Things can go the way you want, but they can also very quickly turn for the worse. In fully dynamic games such as X4 developers can tweak values to increase the likelyhood of the universe developing in a certain way, but that does not eliminate the possibility of the game going into a completely different direction.

This means that it is very possible for a faction to make mistakes, waste ressources and change from a winning streak into a losing disaster very quickly, just like it is possible for factions to be very lucky and start an invasion when the enemy forces are occupied somewhere else, resulting in an easy territory gain and a devastating blow to their enemies.

While in your game the Xenon might have made bad decisions (or other factions made good decisions) which resulted in the Xenon unable to produce large fleets, in other games the Xenon are quite healthy.

That being said, it's by no means perfect, in my opinion, and there are many things that could be improved (such as bringing extinct factions back, influencing factions via diplomacy, or making decisions regarding fleet movment).

Ezarkal
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Re: A picture that shows the xenon status in the game

Post by Ezarkal » Wed, 23. Jun 21, 15:45

CBJ wrote:
Wed, 23. Jun 21, 12:59
I won't bother trying to explain in future then.
Please keep bothering.

Most of us actually read what you write.
Humans are deuterostomes, which means that when they develop in the womb the first opening they develop is the anus.
This means that at one point you were nothing but an asshole.

Some people never develop beyond this stage.

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