Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

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BelatedHero
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by BelatedHero » Sat, 5. Jun 21, 18:39

Endealon wrote:
Sat, 5. Jun 21, 02:57
Oh I understand. Let me tell you about some of "my" main problems. You and others may be affected by:

-The Xenon AI. Xenons just don't mean anything in the current version of the game. Since they are the main opposing faction, it may be a problem that affects other players.

-AI combat and fleet management. Our ships are just plain stupid. Since combat is one of the core parts of the game, I guess it doesn't just affect me.

-The UI is awful. Make 14 clicks for something that could be done in 3 or a map management that is the opposite of comfort, to name something. Considering everyone uses the UI, I don't think it's something that only affects me.

Compared to all of this, the topics you cited are insignificant.
Your final statement shows that while you may understand grapedog's point, you do not believe it. Calling the concerns of others "insignificant" shows you do not respect the right of others to think something else is more important.

I too have issues with all three of your points, and while I consider them substantial places for improvement as well, I disagree they are the top 3. This patch seems to address many big pain points I face and I am looking forward to its arrival.

elektrohawk
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by elektrohawk » Sun, 6. Jun 21, 01:39

Endealon wrote:
Sat, 5. Jun 21, 02:57
grapedog wrote:
Sat, 5. Jun 21, 02:50
Endealon wrote:
Sat, 5. Jun 21, 02:49
No solution to the real main problems.

-No drastic change to horrible AI.

-No profound change to the hideous UI.

Congratulations. Keep up the good work.
Everyone has different main problems.... yours, because they're yours, seem more important... but for some people, fixing terraforming, or mining, or getting ventures back, or any other thing could have been the main problem for them.

Oh I understand. Let me tell you about some of "my" main problems. You and others may be affected by:

-The Xenon AI. Xenons just don't mean anything in the current version of the game. Since they are the main opposing faction, it may be a problem that affects other players.

-AI combat and fleet management. Our ships are just plain stupid. Since combat is one of the core parts of the game, I guess it doesn't just affect me.

-The UI is awful. Make 14 clicks for something that could be done in 3 or a map management that is the opposite of comfort, to name something. Considering everyone uses the UI, I don't think it's something that only affects me.

Compared to all of this, the topics you cited are insignificant.
It's fortunate then that you're wrong. The topics they mentioned are far more significant than your examples. End game crew training was completely horrible, the UI for it made it not worth doing through terraforming, and that is fixed. Station miners and even managers were having such significant problems, that threads were popping up daily about it being broken/unplayable, and that's getting addressed. The return of ventures, in a more fleshed out state is something that has frankly been promised and requested since launch.

Your wants of a stronger Xenon is an issue a number of people have raised, but your assertion that they are the main opposing faction is incorrect. Who the player chooses to go up against, is the main opposing faction, the xenon are a threat to the universe, but they're also not intended (as far as I'm aware) to be some destructive force that will wipe out all the non-player factions, should the player neglect to aid them. It's a difficult balancing act, particularly with the introduction of terrans and their roaming anti-xenon fleets, but this is only one issue, and not as big of one as you make out.

As for AI combat and fleet management, OOS combat calculations are a bit odd, but ships aren't that stupid. Do you even watch them fight? It's pretty impressive most of the time, for being computer controlled, on the scale that it's at. Further, if you had bothered to read the tentative patch notes, you would have seen that there are fixes in it for ship combat AI, like ships holding their fire against boarding targets that have gotten too low hp.

As for the UI, this is also exactly what is being addressed with some of the changes, like the terraforming crew training changes. They are quite literally reducing the number of tedious clicks to do through the UI.


TL:DR; They're fixing aspects of what you're complaining about, but you don't care, and only seem to be interested in criticizing what many people are interested in. Also, not everyone plays through steam: GOG is another primary distributor of X4

EtherealZucchini
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by EtherealZucchini » Sun, 6. Jun 21, 21:51

Still no fix for crews of ships built at player stations not using the race of the station habitats?

LandogarX4
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by LandogarX4 » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 01:38

I sure hope the Xenon balancing gets fixed in the upcoming beta. I haven't been playing in weeks since I don't want the other races to wipe out the pathetically weak Xenon.

Sassbarman
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by Sassbarman » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 03:05

With regards to making the xenon a threat again does anyone feel that a simple increasing of the range of their main gravitron turrets on the K’s and I’s would make a huge difference.

xWolfzx
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by xWolfzx » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 06:37

Sassbarman wrote:
Mon, 7. Jun 21, 03:05
With regards to making the xenon a threat again does anyone feel that a simple increasing of the range of their main gravitron turrets on the K’s and I’s would make a huge difference.
Not without reducing the damage. I've tried modding the range to around 8km and kept the damage, and a K can easily wipe the floor against even an AI Asgard IS, OOS only the Asgard stands a chance and the Xenon easily destroy stations after stations IS /OOS. Within an hour they've occupied quite a few sectors and they is barely anytime for the player to build up and make a difference.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by mr.WHO » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 07:55

It's not turret range or power that is the problem, but their resilience - they die easily in IS fight and absolutely ultra easy in OOS combat.

The main problem currently with Xenons is that the sux in OOS combat by loosing most of their turrets.

BelatedHero
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by BelatedHero » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 08:34

EtherealZucchini wrote:
Sun, 6. Jun 21, 21:51
Still no fix for crews of ships built at player stations not using the race of the station habitats?
That is literally its own bullet point in the bug fix log. :P

SunGod1
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by SunGod1 » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 12:31

GIB Beta
Travel Drive Charge Time is absolutely @player_frustration +1

Sassbarman
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by Sassbarman » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 22:47

xWolfzx wrote:
Mon, 7. Jun 21, 06:37
Sassbarman wrote:
Mon, 7. Jun 21, 03:05
With regards to making the xenon a threat again does anyone feel that a simple increasing of the range of their main gravitron turrets on the K’s and I’s would make a huge difference.
Not without reducing the damage. I've tried modding the range to around 8km and kept the damage, and a K can easily wipe the floor against even an AI Asgard IS, OOS only the Asgard stands a chance and the Xenon easily destroy stations after stations IS /OOS. Within an hour they've occupied quite a few sectors and they is barely anytime for the player to build up and make a difference.
Sounds like fun to me. 😉

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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by jakotheshadows » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 06:05

Raptor34 wrote:
Tue, 1. Jun 21, 18:02
Looks like I need to scrap my The Void mining operation.
But considering it is one of the richest and most consistent areas. Wouldn't that cause major impacts to mining?
L miners with good shields don't care about the hazardous region in the void. So there is a possibility of not scrapping your void mining operation, especially since that is one of the richest areas for methane in the game. That said, I do hope for such ships there is some configurable option to disable this new automatic avoiding of hazardous regions. If a ship has shields that can tank it, there's no sense in taking the scenic route to work.

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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by Raptor34 » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 08:25

jakotheshadows wrote:
Tue, 8. Jun 21, 06:05
Raptor34 wrote:
Tue, 1. Jun 21, 18:02
Looks like I need to scrap my The Void mining operation.
But considering it is one of the richest and most consistent areas. Wouldn't that cause major impacts to mining?
L miners with good shields don't care about the hazardous region in the void. So there is a possibility of not scrapping your void mining operation, especially since that is one of the richest areas for methane in the game. That said, I do hope for such ships there is some configurable option to disable this new automatic avoiding of hazardous regions. If a ship has shields that can tank it, there's no sense in taking the scenic route to work.
But they do. And those were Hokkaidos with best TER shields.
Nearly lost one, it actually dipped into hull, when doing missions there.

LandogarX4
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by LandogarX4 » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 11:54

The changes to hazardous regions could indeed cause major disruptions to existing savegames (something that Bernd suggested they are very hesitant to do). But what's the upside, really? Having your ships take damage in those systems while OOS won't exactly boost immersion to the next level, will it?

dark7np
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by dark7np » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 12:27

Bernd wrote:
Tue, 1. Jun 21, 17:49
[...]
  • Added mass crew transfer for group trainees with player HQ.
[...]
Thank you very much :) I filled up my group training roster recently, and that was a thoroughly unpleasant task that I do not really look forward to repeating.

The training feature as part of terraforming is really good though. I am quite enjoying both. Terraforming's not perfect yet, I overpressurized Memory of Profit for example with currently not way to deal with it, but I can wait for solutions, and I really like the idea.

Some more automations for crew management would be really good though, IMHO. Like manage a roster of skilled crew at the HQ that gets used automatically for new ships? Or at least if I added that option during loadout? Add trainings for engineering? Automatically spread crew to ships with some projects? Maybe add separate group training groups for piloting, engineering, boarding? Be able to recruit / buy fresh personnel directly for those groups? Lots of possibilities there for QoL improvements.

Regarding dangerous regions for mining and the void, that is somewhat of a concern for me too, yes. One of my two production station groups is there, and as I placed them OOS, I'm pretty sure that at least one of my stations is in the dangerous region. It will be... interesting to see what survives when this change hits. I can rebuild that with relative ease though, so... meh. ;)

As for solutions though... Why not add a terraforming project to those systems to find ways to deal with the hazardous regions? Jump the HQ there, do a couple terraforming chain projects that effectively remove the dangerous region? Maybe formulate it in a way that we've found and implemented steps to protect the ships from the dangerous effects, but gameplay wise just remove it? I like the idea that dangerous regions ARE dangerous, even OOS, but it would be nice to be able to use them long term. This kinda soulds like a terraforming scale project, so why not make use of it?

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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by nemo1887 » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 13:04

J'y avais pensé et s'il existait des balises spéciales ? , je pense aux balises spéciales que les navires utiliseraient pour éviter de voler dans des zones dangereuses.

I had thought about it and if they existed special beacons? , I think of special beacons that ships would use to avoid flying in dangerous areas

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Tamina
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by Tamina » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 14:05

Comme dans X Rebirth? (Mais je ne pense pas c'etait dynamique.)


I am currently changing all my miners in hazardous regions to "L" miners one by one. Interestingly, they don't seem take any damage like all other ships do. Contrary to M miners they seem to be immune (?). It is expensive but at least Khaak don't annoy them anymore, as well, and I can finally fly savely through those sectors without a red list of doom :D

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Und wenn ein Forenbösewicht, was Ungezogenes spricht, dann hol' ich meinen Kaktus und der sticht sticht sticht.
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BelatedHero
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by BelatedHero » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 14:44

Tamina wrote:
Tue, 8. Jun 21, 14:05
Contrary to M miners they seem to be immune (?).
I don't think they are immune. But L ships have much more shielding and their recharge rate does not stop when taking damage like S and M ships. So combined together, the damage probably is not as noticeable.

Another user posted in a different thread that he had a problem with L ships in dangerous regions having their mining drones destroyed from the hazard. So watch out for that. The ship may survive, but the mining efficiency will be reduced.

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Tamina
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by Tamina » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 15:03

Good call, haven't thought about that, thank you... damn 🤣

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Und wenn ein Forenbösewicht, was Ungezogenes spricht, dann hol' ich meinen Kaktus und der sticht sticht sticht.
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 l、゙ ~ヽ   / 
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by Lazerius » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 16:21

When the multiverse changes go live, will the old way of doing ventures also be an option?

Ventures have always been my primary way of getting the necessary Mod parts to trick out ships I want to use. I'm beginning to run low on some of them, and I'm not going to grind missions just at a CHANCE of finding a mission to give me a single Exceptional Shield Generator Coil, especially when tricking out a single Asgard takes 13 of them.

With how this game tends to weigh Mod RNG rolls towards the very low end, changing to requiring players to waste hours to acquire the necessary parts, I'll just consider Ship Modding to be a write off for me in my Vanilla game.

Unless they're constantly monitored and setup for overkill, Ships are intended to be disposable in this game. Mod parts should NOT be so tedious to acquire as they currently are without ventures.
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Re: Update 4.10 - Overview of progress and plans

Post by Ezarkal » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 16:31

Lazerius wrote:
Tue, 8. Jun 21, 16:21
When the multiverse changes go live, will the old way of doing ventures also be an option?

Ventures have always been my primary way of getting the necessary Mod parts to trick out ships I want to use. I'm beginning to run low on some of them, and I'm not going to grind missions just at a CHANCE of finding a mission to give me a single Exceptional Shield Generator Coil, especially when tricking out a single Asgard takes 13 of them.

With how this game tends to weigh Mod RNG rolls towards the very low end, changing to requiring players to waste hours to acquire the necessary parts, I'll just consider Ship Modding to be a write off for me in my Vanilla game.

Unless they're constantly monitored and setup for overkill, Ships are intended to be disposable in this game. Mod parts should NOT be so tedious to acquire as they currently are without ventures.
I agree with that. Venture was also my main way of getting ship mods, and I really hope to be able to use it in this way again.
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