For egosoft to consider - amd FSR (fsr is out now for developers)

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Skeeter
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For egosoft to consider - amd FSR (fsr is out now for developers)

Post by Skeeter » Tue, 1. Jun 21, 04:35

https://gpuopen.com/fsr-announce/

Might help with x4.

If anything it might be a good way to get aa in the game that doesnt suck fps but instead increase fps.
Last edited by Skeeter on Thu, 15. Jul 21, 17:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Panos
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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by Panos » Tue, 1. Jun 21, 06:23

Skeeter wrote:
Tue, 1. Jun 21, 04:35
https://gpuopen.com/fsr-announce/

Might help with x4.

If anything it might be a good way to get aa in the game that doesnt suck fps but instead increase fps.
I agree with you especially on asteroid sectors, while the tech works with GTX1000/2000/3000 all AMD 500/Vega/5000/6000 and all the AMD APUs using Vega.

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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by nOy » Tue, 1. Jun 21, 17:33

Skeeter wrote:
Tue, 1. Jun 21, 04:35
https://gpuopen.com/fsr-announce/

Might help with x4.

If anything it might be a good way to get aa in the game that doesnt suck fps but instead increase fps.
On the topic of AA, we have a similar build and you have a better AMD GPU. Have you tried:

1. Enabling VSR (Virtual Super Resolution) and full panel scaling in Radeon Software
2. Crank up CAS in Radeon Software to full (80% > 100%) to compensate for blur introduced by FXAA in-game
3. Configure X4 to run full screen but use VSR of 1800p or 2160p (4K)
4. Ultra settings but set Volumetric Fog to Low
5. Finally, select FXAA High as your antialiasing

In-game screenshots with aforementioned settings:

https://ibb.co/jwkbYbg
https://ibb.co/F3qcyk2
https://ibb.co/6J8C4W7
https://ibb.co/0VgXD5W

I have a Vega64 on a 1440p monitor. With Vsync On @ 4k VSR, I only manage around 30 to 50 FPS but AA results are quite nice. Also, texture and details look way better and clearer than native 1440p. I spend most of my time in the map anyways so low FPS is acceptable for me. I drop to VSR 1800p or native 1440p if I want more FPS. But yeah, AMD FSR support would be nice, even if it did not include ray tracing, just the FPS boost would be dope. Saw the AMD video on FSR and there is a little blur but it might be the result of the ray tracing denoising algorithm. AMD's CAS and ReShade (LumaSharpen, etc.) might be able to mitigate some of that. :D
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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by Skeeter » Tue, 1. Jun 21, 19:02

Yea ive tried that but it doesnt help get rid of the artifacts on alot of things when walking on stations so dont use it. I really want taa as i think that would get rid of the problems im annoyed by as msaa doesnt help, fxaa doesnt, higher res doesnt.
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nOy
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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by nOy » Tue, 1. Jun 21, 19:13

huh...interesting. So far, I am not experiencing graphical artifacts when walking around stations and my GPU is overclocked a little bit. What I do experience is distortion in DP audio which I discovered happens when my GPU memory downclocks to 800 MHz (on idle or low GPU loading). Forcing it to 1000 all the time fixes that.
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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by Panos » Wed, 2. Jun 21, 09:50

Guys, if you want fill up the AMD survey asking support for X4 Foundations

https://explore.amd.com/en/technologies ... ion/survey


What is FSR watch the video at 4K even when you have lesser monitor
https://youtu.be/eHPmkJzwOFc

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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by nOy » Wed, 2. Jun 21, 19:50

Panos wrote:
Wed, 2. Jun 21, 09:50
Guys, if you want fill up the AMD survey asking support for X4 Foundations

https://explore.amd.com/en/technologies ... ion/survey
Done, thanks for the link.
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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by MarvinTheMartian » Sat, 5. Jun 21, 00:54

nOy wrote:
Wed, 2. Jun 21, 19:50
Panos wrote:
Wed, 2. Jun 21, 09:50
Guys, if you want fill up the AMD survey asking support for X4 Foundations

https://explore.amd.com/en/technologies ... ion/survey
Done, thanks for the link.
And here also.

Might be the thing that makes me go AMD for GPU if stock of 3060 Ti doesn't come first (quite possible)
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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by Axeface » Sat, 5. Jun 21, 01:05

:o :o :o
Its going to work on my old 1060...... Cant wait!! I cant use DLSS because its not supported by old hardware, so thank you amd - brownie points, earned.
Maybe this will push Nvidia to stop being asshats and let the older cards run DLSS.

As they didnt mention it though, I assume this isnt neural network driven and it more akin to old upscaling? Quality might not be as good as DLSS.

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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by MarvinTheMartian » Sat, 5. Jun 21, 01:55

Axeface wrote:
Sat, 5. Jun 21, 01:05
As they didnt mention it though, I assume this isnt neural network driven and it more akin to old upscaling? Quality might not be as good as DLSS.
As I understand it, it's effectively post-processing applying a bit of (smart) blur. According to a review I watched on YouTube recently.
Meant to be easier for developers than DLSS *cough* Egosoft *cough* though
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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by nOy » Sun, 6. Jun 21, 18:45

MarvinTheMartian wrote:
Sat, 5. Jun 21, 01:55
As I understand it, it's effectively post-processing applying a bit of (smart) blur. According to a review I watched on YouTube recently.
Meant to be easier for developers than DLSS *cough* Egosoft *cough* though
I read somewhere that FSR happens early in the pipeline so may not be a post-processing approach. We will know more by June 22nd. :D

Here is an interesting video of the possibilities of machine learning. This one renders GTA V to be more photorealistic. Not sure if this was done in real-time but it is quite impressive.

https://youtu.be/P1IcaBn3ej0

More here:

https://intel-isl.github.io/PhotorealismEnhancement/
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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by Panos » Sun, 6. Jun 21, 22:09

MarvinTheMartian wrote:
Sat, 5. Jun 21, 01:55
Axeface wrote:
Sat, 5. Jun 21, 01:05
As they didnt mention it though, I assume this isnt neural network driven and it more akin to old upscaling? Quality might not be as good as DLSS.
As I understand it, it's effectively post-processing applying a bit of (smart) blur. According to a review I watched on YouTube recently.
Meant to be easier for developers than DLSS *cough* Egosoft *cough* though

FidelityFX Super Resolution is a spatial upscaling technique, which generates a “super resolution” image from every input frame. In other words, it does not rely on history buffers or motion vectors. Neither does it require any per-game training. Is happens the moment the frame is getting into the pipeline to render not after is done.

Apparently according to some interviews, is very easy to implement in any game and engine compared to DLSS.

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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by Imperial Good » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 00:21

I would wait until actual sill quality images are available from independent sources. Without the use of AI it is unlikely to generate any real quality improvement over traditional AA techniques and be more like a bilinear filtering replacement for upscale. I doubt AMD cards have the AI compute capabilities to compete with Nvidia's DLSS at the moment.

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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by MarvinTheMartian » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 01:26

nOy wrote:
Sun, 6. Jun 21, 18:45
I read somewhere that FSR happens early in the pipeline so may not be a post-processing approach. We will know more by June 22nd. :D
I stand corrected.
LTT made a god point yesterday, in that, game developers are already up against tight deadlines for release dates so, unless there's a significant benefit to the game, it's an extra thing they don't need to worry about. I guess that's fair as it's a whole other thing to test and debug especially if FSR is going to be possible on NVidia and Intel as well as Radeon going back a gen or 2!
Maybe we should be careful what we ask for?
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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by Skeeter » Tue, 22. Jun 21, 16:40

So now the reviews are out and most seem to think its a good free feature, i wouldnt mind hearing from ego/cbj on what they think of it and will x4 get it? Reports say devs of the supported games got it in their games between 2 hours to 2 days. Maybe ego if they liked it they could try get it snuck into the final of 4.10 patch?
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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by metalvenom » Tue, 22. Jun 21, 18:22

anything that gives FPS boost is a plus regardless where it came from :P +1

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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by Skeeter » Wed, 23. Jun 21, 00:49

https://gpuopen.com/fidelityfx-superresolution/

More info.
Super Resolution

Major framerate boosts combined with high-quality, high-resolution graphics!
Four different quality modes proposed: Ultra Quality, Quality, Balanced, and Performance.
Cross-platform

FSR is not limited to the latest GPU architectures only! It runs on a large variety of GPUs.
Wide API support for DirectX®12, Vulkan®, and DirectX®11!
Once released, FSR can be ported onto multiple platforms without restriction.
Open source

FSR 1.0 will be provided on GitHub via GPUOpen under the MIT license in mid July.
Easy to integrate

The same great experience that you expect from AMD FidelityFX, with a low barrier of entry.
Full shader source code provided for a smooth and flexible integration.
Fixed and arbitrary scaling supported.
Highly optimized

FSR is hand-optimized for fast performance across a wide variety of GPUs1.
Works on most gpus from amd nvidia and intel, and on laptops and apus that have onboard gfx.
Easy to implement

No real reason not to use it. :)

Reviews:

https://youtu.be/KCzjQ4qP124
https://youtu.be/_JR8MsJcTBU
https://youtu.be/9ZBfG3IDTD0
https://youtu.be/yFZAo6xItOI
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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by Panos » Wed, 23. Jun 21, 03:20

Skeeter wrote:
Wed, 23. Jun 21, 00:49
https://gpuopen.com/fidelityfx-superresolution/

More info.
Super Resolution

Major framerate boosts combined with high-quality, high-resolution graphics!
Four different quality modes proposed: Ultra Quality, Quality, Balanced, and Performance.
Cross-platform

FSR is not limited to the latest GPU architectures only! It runs on a large variety of GPUs.
Wide API support for DirectX®12, Vulkan®, and DirectX®11!
Once released, FSR can be ported onto multiple platforms without restriction.
Open source

FSR 1.0 will be provided on GitHub via GPUOpen under the MIT license in mid July.
Easy to integrate

The same great experience that you expect from AMD FidelityFX, with a low barrier of entry.
Full shader source code provided for a smooth and flexible integration.
Fixed and arbitrary scaling supported.
Highly optimized

FSR is hand-optimized for fast performance across a wide variety of GPUs1.
Works on most gpus from amd nvidia and intel, and on laptops and apus that have onboard gfx.
Easy to implement

No real reason not to use it. :)

Reviews:

https://youtu.be/KCzjQ4qP124
https://youtu.be/_JR8MsJcTBU
https://youtu.be/9ZBfG3IDTD0
https://youtu.be/yFZAo6xItOI
If it wasn't a process that started the calculation very early in the pipeline, I wouldn't be surprised if someone could to add it into reshade like they did with RIS.
Again someone might try to do it, might not be perfect but could work.

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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by MPX10L » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 17:38

As far as I know (just from following the news a little bit) FSR runs after the geometry is rendered and after anti-aliasing is applied but before the UI is rendered.
I also remember reading or hearing that AMD recommends using 4xTAA for the best results.
Plus it requires that game world and UI can be rendered at different resolutions.

So to me it looks like FSR is NOT easy to implement in X4 because:
- TAA is harder to implement than other AA solutions and often requires additional game data. You can't simply swap FXAA with TAA. It requires additional changes to the engine.
- It looks like seperate render resolutions for UI and game aren't easy to implement either in X4, because I think we would already have it otherwise as the UI looks terrible at low resolutions and even becomes buggy to the point of being unusable (overlapping elements etc). A render-scale option in the graphics settings would have been a welcome fix for that. I think one of the reasons it might be hard to implement is that the map is a big part of the UI and it contains a lot of 3D objects. What resolution should they be rendered at? (I would advocate for an option to make them 2D because performance on the map is atrocious anyway.)

I have a laptop from 2015 that has a Core i5-5500u and a Geforce 840m. That is basically the GPU performance of modern APUs. I played X4 on it for some time and it is kinda possible. The main problem is that I cannot reduce the resolution any further because the menus become a pain to use. A renderscale slider would make it playable. Maybe not in big battles or where it gets CPU limited but you don't have to play that way. There is still enough to do in the X-universe.

I think they should try to implement FSR or at least a render scale option. It would open up the game for many more players.
But I think it is unlikely because it is probably quite a lot of work.
But I am not a programmer. So maybe all of what I said is wrong. Please correct me if that is the case. These were just the thoughts I had when thinking about low spec gaming. :)

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Re: For egosoft to consider - amd FSR

Post by Panos » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 19:06

adrianstroschke wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 17:38
As far as I know (just from following the news a little bit) FSR runs after the geometry is rendered and after anti-aliasing is applied but before the UI is rendered.
I also remember reading or hearing that AMD recommends using 4xTAA for the best results.
Plus it requires that game world and UI can be rendered at different resolutions.

So to me it looks like FSR is NOT easy to implement in X4 because:
- TAA is harder to implement than other AA solutions and often requires additional game data. You can't simply swap FXAA with TAA. It requires additional changes to the engine.
- It looks like seperate render resolutions for UI and game aren't easy to implement either in X4, because I think we would already have it otherwise as the UI looks terrible at low resolutions and even becomes buggy to the point of being unusable (overlapping elements etc). A render-scale option in the graphics settings would have been a welcome fix for that. I think one of the reasons it might be hard to implement is that the map is a big part of the UI and it contains a lot of 3D objects. What resolution should they be rendered at? (I would advocate for an option to make them 2D because performance on the map is atrocious anyway.)

I have a laptop from 2015 that has a Core i5-5500u and a Geforce 840m. That is basically the GPU performance of modern APUs. I played X4 on it for some time and it is kinda possible. The main problem is that I cannot reduce the resolution any further because the menus become a pain to use. A renderscale slider would make it playable. Maybe not in big battles or where it gets CPU limited but you don't have to play that way. There is still enough to do in the X-universe.

I think they should try to implement FSR or at least a render scale option. It would open up the game for many more players.
But I think it is unlikely because it is probably quite a lot of work.
But I am not a programmer. So maybe all of what I said is wrong. Please correct me if that is the case. These were just the thoughts I had when thinking about low spec gaming. :)
AMD will have the source code out in public at GPUOpen by Mid July
Testimonies from companies used it say it takes few hours to 2 days to retrofit it in their games and nowhere says about TAA.

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