Re-skin the Paranid capitals ?.

[RoverTX]

I am actually fine with them all but the Odysseus, the carrier, miners, and aux give an X3 vibe that I like. As for the Odysseus the over all shape feels weird, and a lot of the details aren't polished. For instance on the top front a number of places where surfaces come together aren't very smooth.

[Raptor34]

I mean I think the Argon are actually worse off than the Paranid in terms of design.
I also dislike and not use like 70% of cap ships back in X3. But you don't see me whining about it.

[Jeraal]

While I don't like the hair dryer handle, the turrets just look wrong on Paranid capital ships. Their big ships have these nice smooth surfaces, and the turrets look like military hardware that has just been bolted on where they could.

[ubuntufreakdragon]

why not use a airlock on the lower side, there is this ominous tube moving upwards to any docked ship, that could just be your clamp.

[Panos]

I know this is an old open discussion but why not the designers pick the Gorgon design make it bigger and add the same turrets from the Odysseus?
It will be in line with all other Paranid ships style (including the capitals), same amount of guns job done.

If I knew how to design a new ship using the existing interiors would have done so as a proposal or as a mod

[builder680]

Paranid are pretty ugly compared to how they used to be, but Teladi designs are what strike me the most. They used to have a much more utilitarian, "lived in" design, and now they all look like oversized probes.

[grapedog]

Paranid are pretty ugly compared to how they used to be, but Teladi designs are what strike me the most. They used to have a much more utilitarian, "lived in" design, and now they all look like oversized probes.

The big TEL ships are some of my favorites, I like the mushroom/dome designs.

[Imperial Good]

The Odysseus is still the personal destroyer of choice in the base game. It has enough fire power to kill Xenon capitals efficiently and is overall a pretty decent ship. The problem is that the DLC destroyers like Rattlesnake, Osaka and especially Syn are all massively better than it when player flown so if you own the DLC you will only ever use it because you get one free and have nothing else available at the time or location.

Due to its batteries having the longest range, it is still the best siege destroyer. If only the AI would reliably take advantage of this rather than trying to melee Gravaton turrets... In theory 3 of them should easily take down and I in sector from a safe distance, especially if the AI focused on the exposed L turrets. A single Odysseus lacks the fire power to efficiently take down an I, which is something both the Rattlesnake and Syn have.

As for skins... At the very least having a different skin for Sentinel and Vanguard variants would be nice. However I would say this should go further to actual model and loadout differences and even a rename, since as it stands they might as well just merge both into a single "Odysseus" ship to match the more modern DLC ship naming style. If they are restyled, then it should apply to all the vanguard and sentinel variants in a way that is thematic with their building faction.

ANT (Sentinel) -> Militia themed, as they only started to rely on themselves for defence since the jumpgate shutdown, since before then Argon Federation forces provided the majority of protection. Military ships have extra shields, tougher hull, longer batteries. Some combat roles missing. Traders are faster and haul more.

ARG (Vanguard) -> Military themed, as they represent the full military capabilities of the Argon Federation. Military ships are faster/more agile, have more gun/turrets and batteries deal significantly more damage. Traders are significantly more combat capable with more shields and turrets.

MIN (Sentinel) -> Military themed, effectively the special forces of the Teladi. All ships cost significantly more, and have a matching stat boost above other faction ships. Military ships are faster/more agile, have more gun/turrets and batteries deal significantly more damage. Traders are significantly more combat capable with more shields and turrets. No miners.

TEL (Vanguard) -> Cvil themed, Teladi who do not really want to fight and just want to make profits. All ships cost significantly less, but do have some major weaknesses compared with other faction ships. Military ships all have extra hull and shield, but significantly reduced fire power and speed. Traders/miners have good cargo but poor shields and no turrets at all.

PAR (Vanguard) -> Pretty much same as current.

HOP (Sentienl) -> Representing their different interpretation on the holy three dimensionality all their ships are different in some way, including moved hard points and swapped over stats. Traders and miners are slow with large storage (opposite of current Paranid ships). Most combat ships share a similar/same hull design but with hard points moved around or some changed out for other types.

[Pares]

I don't think anybody would say no to more unique faction specific skins. But I doubt X4 will ever see those anymore. The major problem I see with X4 ship designs is that Egosoft shot itself in the foot with the new modular approach along with the S/M docks. The modular design is the right way to go IMO, but the way they did it produced some really ugly ships.

The turrets take up unnecessarily big space on the hull. They are all mounted on the same sized rectangular shape base, and even when they are inactive they stick out of the hull way too much. Not to mention the bases of the turrets look way to big for the actual turrets, which are inside a smaller ring in the middle. This doesn't look that out of place for some of the ships that seems to have been designed with the turrets in mind (mainly the Argon, Teladi and Terran ships), but many ships look like they were designed by some artist to look pretty and sleek and curvy without the turrets, and then the turrets where forced on those ships in the modeling and implementation phase for balance reasons, completely disregarding how it will affect and disrupt the overall design (the Odysseus and the Nemesis are perfect examples).

The shields have the same problems as the turrets, although they are a bit better integrated on most ships, they are still huge and stick out of the hull too much.

Another questionable decision was to create a class of M ships with an S dock. This is how the useless ugly fat flying boxes called frigates were born. Now there is a ship that must fit on an M dock but also must have a huge box in it's middle that takes up more than half of its volume. For what? To be able to carry/dock a single S ship for barely if any combat benefit?

The Odysseus is the culmination of all of the above. It has huge rectangular cutouts for the turrets, which along the huge shields stick out of the hull like they were placed there as an afterthought, a huge flat surface for the docks, the huge box for the M dock makes it fat too, and even though it is an L ship with way less dock size constraints, it was still made unnecessarely small and narrow further emphasizing it's fatness.

What I would suggest for the next iteration of X:

• Keep the modular design, but don't make it mandatory in every case. There could be ships with integrated unchangeable unique engines or weapons. No need to mirror ship classes for each faction. Not every M sized ship needs turrets.
• Forget putting S docks on M ships.
• Turrets could take up a lot less space and stick out less. Cut everything around the inner turret ring. Make the turret ring a partially internal component, so that inactive turrets can be fully hidden inside the hull.
• Shields could be a lot more flat too so they don't look like they were mounted on the hull as an aftermarket upgrade which was not part of the original design.
• Dynamic texturing of turrets/shields/engines based on the ship they are on.

[S!rAssassin]

What I would suggest for the next iteration of X...

#1. No. Every M and even S should have turrets. Maybe more, maybe less, but turrets should be for defending reasons.
#2. I’d like to see S docks on M, but that M needs to scale up their hulls.
##3-5. Agreed.

[Pares]

What I would suggest for the next iteration of X...

#1. No. Every M and even S should have turrets. Maybe more, maybe less, but turrets should be for defending reasons.
#2. I’d like to see S docks on M, but that M needs to scale up their hulls.
##3-5. Agreed.

1. Well, IMO extremly fast glass cannons like the Dragon and Dragon Raider could easily make it without turrets. The Nemesis and the Katana too. To be honest I feel like the two M turrets are useless anyway, compared to the 6/5/4 main cannons they do barely any damage if they can even hit their targets on these fast and agile ships. S turrets on S ships? They would be even more useless.
2. Frigates would need to be ~50% bigger (wider and longer) to not look like flying bricks with spoilers and wings. But then they probably wouldn't fit on M docks.

[S!rAssassin]

1. Well, IMO extremly fast glass cannons like the Dragon and Dragon Raider could easily make it without turrets. The Nemesis and the Katana too. To be honest I feel like the two M turrets are useless anyway, compared to the 6/5/4 main cannons they do barely any damage if they can even hit their targets on these fast and agile ships. S turrets on S ships? They would be even more useless.
2. Frigates would need to be ~50% bigger (wider and longer) to not look like flying bricks with spoilers and wings. But then they probably wouldn't fit on M docks.

#1. Without turrets only if will have superior speed. In X3 turrets in fighters are useless? Maybe not powerful enough, but missiles threat much lower.
#2. Maybe, frigates should be L-class? Smallest of them, but more speedy and agile. In current game frigates are weak and quickly get killed. Corvettes are ok, but frigates and gunships not so useful, cause have less firepower and endurance without speed and agile. They should be smallest L and have more turrets.

[Pares]

1. Well, IMO extremly fast glass cannons like the Dragon and Dragon Raider could easily make it without turrets. The Nemesis and the Katana too. To be honest I feel like the two M turrets are useless anyway, compared to the 6/5/4 main cannons they do barely any damage if they can even hit their targets on these fast and agile ships. S turrets on S ships? They would be even more useless.
2. Frigates would need to be ~50% bigger (wider and longer) to not look like flying bricks with spoilers and wings. But then they probably wouldn't fit on M docks.

#1. Without turrets only if will have superior speed. In X3 turrets in fighters are useless? Maybe not powerful enough, but missiles threat much lower.
#2. Maybe, frigates should be L-class? Smallest of them, but more speedy and agile. In current game frigates are weak and quickly get killed. Corvettes are ok, but frigates and gunships not so useful, cause have less firepower and endurance without speed and agile. They should be smallest L and have more turrets.

I played nearly a thousand hours now and in my experience missiles are such a marginal and rare threat, that I never needed to set any turrets explicitly to missile defense. Agree that frigates should (have) be(en) a middle ground between corvettes and destroyers, both in size and in armament and defenses.

[S!rAssassin]

I played nearly a thousand hours now and in my experience missiles are such a marginal and rare threat, that I never needed to set any turrets explicitly to missile defense.

Right, but I also want more use missiles by AI. EG made launchers at main weapon slots, but AI nearly don`t use them.

[RedEyedRaven]

As for skins... At the very least having a different skin for Sentinel and Vanguard variants would be nice. However I would say this should go further to actual model and loadout differences and even a rename, since as it stands they might as well just merge both into a single "Odysseus" ship to match the more modern DLC ship naming style. If they are restyled, then it should apply to all the vanguard and sentinel variants in a way that is thematic with their building faction.

This is what should be done IMO. Aside from minor differences in basestats and module-layout there's no actual point in the 'variants'.

And yeah, a better visual design that matches the particular faction's overall goal and trade should also go with more fitting stats and layouts.


As for re-designs of paranid capitals in particular... the Odysseus isn't a design I'd throw away, but I would definitely love some adjustments and refinement to its model and the textures.
The hairclub for men travels around in an Odysseus to make sure that barber-conventions and competitions can be held under the protection of an armed blowdryer.

Right now it looks like somebody hit the Zeus with a shrinking-beam and then tried to feed it back to health, resulting in a very chubby smaller Zeus.


Axeface actually has a very nice WIP-concept of a capital worthy of being a paranid destroyer, but it's not his top-priority whenever he comes back for modding X4.

[sirprosik]

Completely missed the Poll. Absolutely not! Complete waste of development time IMO.
The Odysseus is the best destroyer in the unmodded game for stats and looks.
If the vocal "minority" here wants to do it let them be modded they probably are already anyway!!!

Only issue I have with the odysseus is the same for all ships when the ship(s) are even slightly moving
exiting in the space suit to do repairs is awful. Getting stuck in the internal geometry having to 'teleport'
back into the ship if teleport has been researched. Wish the guns would fire more often but can live with them
being as slow as they are versus a redesign solely based on internet memes.

Tel ships design for placement of turrets is sub-optimal and a solo S can destroy it.
Arg behemoth is slightly better but engines can be destroyed easily as well and same as above.
Odysseus is different because turret placement makes this much harder than the others.

Remember the Paranid are math and efficiency based society. The design fits the race as is.

Better to focus on being able to hit destroyer modules with main guns and turrets <=4.0
broken in >= 4.1 beta 6 than to focus on 'fixing' what isn't broken.

Fixing map being stuck open, having to hit ESC to force close it.

Finalizing the "immortal station" issues.

Allowing player to go from Science lab to any trader corner on the station directly.

Memory leak beaten and defeated.

These are more important than any meme issues.

[Pares]

The Odysseus is the best destroyer in the unmodded game for stats and looks.
If the vocal "minority" here wants to do it let them be modded they probably are already anyway!!!

Actually from the poll it looks like the the majority would like something being done about the huge difference in quality of some Paranid capital ships (but I would say mainly the Odysseus) compared to not just the new DLC capital ships (which makes the Odysseus look like its from a different game from a different decade), but also compared to the original capital ships of other races. I'm not even talking about it's shape, altough it definitely could look a lot less fat and a lot more flat and wider like other Paranid ships (even with the "handle"). Just park an Odysseus next to a Behemoth or a Phoenix. The way the Behemoth and Phoenix integrate the turrets, shields and docking bays into their design is almost completely seemless, while in the case of the Odysseus everything sticks out of the hull like it was added as an afterthought. The texture quality is inferior too. Even the X3 model looks better. I would strongly argue that the quality and detail of ships and their aesthetics is just as important as stats, if not more. Sure, aesthetics is subjective, but in this case it is like if you would prefer the looks and sexy curves of on ald and rusty Fiat Multipla compared to a Ferrari 288GTO.

[Panos]

The Odysseus is the best destroyer in the unmodded game for stats and looks.
If the vocal "minority" here wants to do it let them be modded they probably are already anyway!!!

63% is not vocal minority. Odysseus is an abomination. The current model looks it came out from an older X game, doesn't match the design of the Paranid ships.

As proposed because making a new ship is difficult, just enlarge the Paranid Frigate to the size of the Destroyer. It has an amazing design (one of the best looking ships in game) it has everything placed properly (replace the forward guns with the big batteries add turrets, docking on top) and job done.

Even the Paranid L miner looks better if converted to destroyer class.

[Flippi]

The current model looks it came out from an older X game, doesn't match the design of the Paranid ships.

The X4 Odysseus is quite literally a chonky X3 Hercules. All Paranid Cap ships are based on their X3 design in some way. The X4 Zeus is also a direct port from X3. The old X3 Odysseus never had any kind of handle. That thing looked more like a flying saucer. So all in all, the Paranid design is relatively consistent in X4 when looking from the X3 perspective.

[sirprosik]

Its a vocal minority due to being most people only browse the forums rather than post!!!

Personally I have not used a hairdryer for more than 30 years for drying hair anyway so I would not have connected the ship model to a hair dryer and
for sure don't have a fancy one from the salon I don't go to because I am bald!!!

The posts and the one above are rather offensive IMO and if I was in charge ...