Station Mining/Management Broken.

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zkarn
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Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by zkarn » Sat, 15. May 21, 01:54

I played after the split vendetta exp and had 5 large self sufficient shipyards and billions of creds, so I'm not exactly new at this. I experienced no real game breaking bugs during that playthrough.

I came back after the cradle of humanity exp and something horrible has happened to station miners.....and station management in general.

In this play through (no mods) I currently have 2 factories needing multiple mined resources. Both station managers are 4 star.

I have multiple miners mining for commander, and they are fools.

One of my stations is dry on methane and has a huge stockpile of hydrogen and yet all these clowns will mine is hydrogen! As a workaround I bought a miner and gave it repeat orders to mine methane and sell to the station... he mines 30..(thats it) 30 units of methane and sells it... dont worry about filling up...just sell 30 at a time.... its doing my head in.

In my other station the manager will not buy food for love or money. (Auto price, auto buy amount set, nil restrictions, heaps of storage)

I sat on seta and watched him let it empty and then let my workforce disappear! To work around that I have to keep a baldric transporter nearby to stock up on food manually when the station needs it.

Ive built a food fac nearby and it still does not auto stock, even with only my traders restriction in place at one or both ends. WTF!!!

I can google and know this has been reported alot since 4.0, but seriously.... its about as game breaking as it gets. One cannot build an empire without a supply chain. How can a game get worse after a year of development, an additional paid expansion and a decade of similar scripting in previous games???

EDIT: After sitting in seta for an hour I noticed that my miners completely top out hydrogen then start delivering methane in 130 unit lots....thats it. No one comes back with a full hold even though plenty of storage remains. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Jaskan
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by Jaskan » Sat, 15. May 21, 02:06

I found exactly the same thing, and had to use repeat order, its not as clean but solves the problem.
I found same goes for station trader and station build storage trader, basically anything to do with manager.

I also found after posting this , there were comments, that just said it was working for them , without any elaboration or evidence.
They sounded like PR department comments to me.

Google it, others having same issue.
Looking forward to the day you can just hand ships over to station and it does the job., like it used to be.

Ezarkal
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by Ezarkal » Sat, 15. May 21, 02:09

zkarn wrote:
Sat, 15. May 21, 01:54
I can google and know this has been reported alot since 4.0, but seriously.... its about as game breaking as it gets. One cannot build an empire without a supply chain. How can a game get worse after a year of development, an additional paid expansion and a decade of similar scripting in previous games???
Yes. If you search the first two pages of this forum, you'll find there are already multiple threads regarding this matter, with solutions described.

Basically, yes. There is currently an issue with miners over-mining some resources and ignoring others if your station need multiple mined resources.
The devs are aware of it, and there should be a fix coming up, probably with the next patch.

In the meantime, you can use either sector auto-miners or mining bases to help supply your complexes. (4.0 introduced some neat feature to help with mining bases, such as the option to assign a mining ship as a station trader instead of a station miner). Both options are relatively cheap to set up, work well enough and should allow you to hold on until the next patch.


As for food supply, I never had this issue yet, except when there was understandable circumstances, such as no food being produced in a reasonable distance.
If it's really an issue, nothing prevents you from integrating food production to your complexes.
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-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by -=SiR KiLLaLoT=- » Sat, 15. May 21, 03:25

Retire all your large mining ships and replace them with medium and small ships.
Count how many wafer silicon and refined metals production modules you have and use the proportion "1 M + 3 S ships" for EACH module.
For example, if you have built 20 silicon wafer modules you will have to use 20 M ships + 60 S ships (yes you read that right).

Remove the hundreds of mining probes you are likely to have used and place a maximum of two probes per sector.
If you have stations dealing with nividum (especially HQ), remove the resource from the logical overview and create a separate station to deal with this material.
Just create a small shop with docking and solid container to do this. In this case use 20-30 small ships to collect material and assign a couple of medium mining ships as a trader to sell the material.
Remember to build this station in a sector with abundant nividum resources, otherwise they will continue to collect nothing.
I recommend, DO NOT deal with Nividum on megacomplexes or stations that require other solid materials because the presence of this material has been nerfed by 99%
and a mining ship will take HOURS to fill its hold completely blocking all other resources (for this it is good to use small ships, Tuatara is the best candidate for this).
For example you will DEFINITELY have delivery problems when you start research or terraforming steps that require the accumulation of Nividum. In that case the dedicated shop is the only applicable solution.

In detail:

Previous mining has been profoundly changed. Now you have to consider the "time" your miners take to gather resources and the "consumption" your station has of that raw resource.
This "time" must be counted considering the distance your ships will travel to reach the extraction point and the "time" they will lose when attacked by the Khaaks (these will constantly trigger the "flee" command and your ships will lose additional time in the fill the hold).

In the case of Terran production, much more expensive with the quantities of material, consider the same principle but in this case you can afford to use some miners size L (and underline SOME, one, two at most not 50 as I have read somewhere),
to "support" the enormous hunger of the terrestrial modules.

Try to calibrate the exact number of miners necessary for your production by making sure that at each delivery they COMPLETELY EMPTY their cargo avoiding that these ships remain with different types of materials in their hold.

The excess of mining ships means that their cargo will be full of the material they had previously searched for, which they will not be able to deliver because the container of the station will no longer accept them and there will be no space available for it, so the mining ship will have little space available for new material.

All of this also applies to gaseous or ice resources

Follow these tips and you will see that everything will magically work again.



Please the developers to confirm what I have written and if there is a possibility to make this little explanation "pinned" on the forum.

I've been reading posts about this for days and the BUG story just doesn't make sense, it just changed the way to mine resources.
In my game everything works perfectly and NONE of my stations (even the huge HQ) are left without resources.
I have not used mods, I have not used repeat orders, I have not used any of the "tricks" that I have read in other discussions.

Please do something :D
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grapedog
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by grapedog » Sat, 15. May 21, 03:39

I hope when a fix comes through they don't somehow break it for the people who have no issues at all.

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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by -=SiR KiLLaLoT=- » Sat, 15. May 21, 16:44

grapedog wrote:
Sat, 15. May 21, 03:39
I hope when a fix comes through they don't somehow break it for the people who have no issues at all.
Exact! I am afraid of just that :cry:
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by Nanook » Sat, 15. May 21, 17:48

-=SiR KiLLaLoT=- wrote:
Sat, 15. May 21, 16:44
grapedog wrote:
Sat, 15. May 21, 03:39
I hope when a fix comes through they don't somehow break it for the people who have no issues at all.
Exact! I am afraid of just that :cry:
So, in short, what you guys are saying is that it's okay that station managers are worthless and we, the players who hired them, have to do all the micromanagement of our station mining ships instead of the so-called managers we hired to do that very job. Riiiight! :roll:

I really hope that's not the way things are supposed to work. :sceptic:
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Midnitewolf
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by Midnitewolf » Sat, 15. May 21, 19:13

Well I finally had an issue with my miners but not the problem everyone is describing. What happened is that I built a food and medical processing station and needed Ice. Despite Ice being available in systems 3-4 jumps away and the ability for the miners to travel a max of 5 jumps, I couldn't do anything to get the miners to go get ice.

However, I think the problem is related. The reason I seem not to be able to get ice is because despite the fact that ice is clearly labeled as available in systems well within the collection range of these miners, I had zero resource probes in any region with Ice as a resource. Further, just having a resource probe doesn't ensure that they went to mine the ice, I had to get them use to mining ice in the closest region with ice. I ended removing them from the station assignment, and sending the miners over to the region with ice, had them sector automine for just ice. Then once they are actually mining for ice, I switched them over to be assigned to the station. I think this fixed the issue.

In any case, my theory about the issue has to do with how everything is tied into the trading system. As you know, all things product and resource related are tied into the trading system and the managers of the station are designed to look for profits. If getting the resource you are short of or in dire need of is less profitable or seen as unprofitable, they won't send anyone out to get that resource. In my case it was a simple fact that miners aren't really set up to also be prospectors so the manager just imported Ice. However if you have previously identified, through resource probes, that there is an abundance of resources, they will actually go mine.

I think the best fix Egosoft could do is somehow disconnect mining and the player trading wares with itself from the trade system and code in the ability for miners to prospect automatically for resources. That would fix a lot of issues.

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grapedog
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by grapedog » Sat, 15. May 21, 21:47

Nanook wrote:
Sat, 15. May 21, 17:48
-=SiR KiLLaLoT=- wrote:
Sat, 15. May 21, 16:44
grapedog wrote:
Sat, 15. May 21, 03:39
I hope when a fix comes through they don't somehow break it for the people who have no issues at all.
Exact! I am afraid of just that :cry:
So, in short, what you guys are saying is that it's okay that station managers are worthless and we, the players who hired them, have to do all the micromanagement of our station mining ships instead of the so-called managers we hired to do that very job. Riiiight! :roll:

I really hope that's not the way things are supposed to work. :sceptic:
No what I am saying is that i have very little issue with resource collection. I'm not positive as to why others are having issues... and whatever changes come down the line, i hope it doesn't break my game while "fixing" others.

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Nort The Fragrent
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by Nort The Fragrent » Tue, 18. May 21, 08:39

I no longer have any issues with miners.

As I have abandoned any hope they will do as told, and last long enough to be of any use.

I play without miners at all. They are not broken ! They are just dead weight that take up all your time. Not worth having…..

:P

Cobra117
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by Cobra117 » Tue, 18. May 21, 14:17

There's another issue with ressource avalability.
For those of us with mega complexes, I found out there are just not enough ressources in the nearby sectors to feed the largest stations, as sectors with low ressource density tend to wear out quite fast (esp. for Silicon). I use Repeat orders so I know exactly where my ships mine and I don't have more than one miner for a specific ressource per spot.
Now I have to shut down my shipyards from time to time , and wait for rss levels to go up...

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grapedog
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by grapedog » Tue, 18. May 21, 14:54

Cobra117 wrote:
Tue, 18. May 21, 14:17
There's another issue with ressource avalability.
For those of us with mega complexes, I found out there are just not enough ressources in the nearby sectors to feed the largest stations, as sectors with low ressource density tend to wear out quite fast (esp. for Silicon). I use Repeat orders so I know exactly where my ships mine and I don't have more than one miner for a specific ressource per spot.
Now I have to shut down my shipyards from time to time , and wait for rss levels to go up...
Why even build a mega that big?

Why not just build two stations, not quite so large, about 7 or 8 sectors apart. Then most of the miners should be going to different plots, and the 5 sector range of the one idiotically large mega station isn't sucking up all available resources.

Cobra117
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by Cobra117 » Wed, 19. May 21, 11:42

Yes, true. For a long time, rss depletion was not taken into account, so supply was not a problem. Egosoft slowed down mining speed and added depletion only recently (at least for an X3 old timer !), so now the question of supply capacity for my shipyards (Matrix 9 and GE) is new.

The solution is to spread production over a larger territory, or slaughter the Xenons and open new mining sectors. Just guess what I'm doing... :mrgreen:

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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by Dreez » Wed, 19. May 21, 11:57

I feel the pain, i got half my list of owned ships taken up by M-miners set to repeat orders because
the station that I OWN, can't be given order to collect specific resources.
Someone said it's a bug and currently the station will ALWAYS mine the resources which
is most abundant in the system.. So even if you're full of ice and need ore, your miners will still mine ice :evil: .

Hopefully it will be sorted out in the next update that's coming. I would love to have my miners assigned to stations
instead of running on repeat orders.
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mr.malcom
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by mr.malcom » Wed, 19. May 21, 12:59

I also have a Problem with Methane. 18 Billion Sector Info say more than 6 Million Methane available. Some Resouce Probes show more than 1/km³ Methane in 18 Billion.
But allmost all Ships fly to Grand Exchange III with 15000 Methane and less than 0,00xxx per km³.

Without the manual repeat Orders, some of my Fabs went out of Methane.

Anoter example: my Fab in Antigone went out of Silicon (witch is plenty available in the same Sector), and the Manager send Miners out to mine Ore.

I dont understand the logic behind this strange mining behavior, huge, near available (and urgently needed) ressources where ignored, other ressources with almost 100% stock where mined.

Cobra117
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Re: Station Mining/Management Broken.

Post by Cobra117 » Wed, 19. May 21, 14:53

It's a bug.
j.harshaw wrote:
Wed, 7. Apr 21, 16:58
Thanks for the report and the save.

I couldn't reproduce the issue with your saves, but have managed to get a save that did exhibit the issue. Should be improved in a future update.

That said, since it didn't happen with your save, i can't rule out a different case being in play.
Check out this post : viewtopic.php?f=180&t=436488&start=15

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