Xenon "unbilding" ships I sold to it?

[Browser_ice]

Hi, I am testing something where I have an owned Wharf in a Xenon sector to which I have high reputation (so we are not ennemies).

I build 20 small fighters and sold them to the Xenon Wharf. I was watching them leave. I thought they would go to the front and fight.

In stead, they landed on the Xenon Wharf and they they vanished after a few seconds. I was looking through the map, no direct view into the Wharf.

So to me it looks like they got unbuilt by Xenon.

Any explanation from the Devs on this?

Maybe it is a safety measure in case Xenon is flooded by a bunch of ships we sold them to keep their expansion to a minimal???

[Axeface]

This is normal behavior of any of the factions I think? They recycle ships sold to them (Unless the docks are full, if they are they fail to dock and then just sit in space stationary forever).
No faction actually use the ships sold to them, I dont think they ever have?

[Raptor34]

This is normal behavior of any of the factions I think? They recycle ships sold to them (Unless the docks are full, if they are they fail to dock and then just sit in space stationary forever).
No faction actually use the ships sold to them, I dont think they ever have?

This, no ships sold directly/manually are used. They are just recycled for resources. Though I'm not sure if only resources used in the construction are recycled or they are magically converted to what that wharf uses.
Pre 4.0 they are just despawned.

[Raevyan]

This is normal behavior of any of the factions I think? They recycle ships sold to them (Unless the docks are full, if they are they fail to dock and then just sit in space stationary forever).
No faction actually use the ships sold to them, I dont think they ever have?

This, no ships sold directly/manually are used. They are just recycled for resources. Though I'm not sure if only resources used in the construction are recycled or they are magically converted to what that wharf uses.
Pre 4.0 they are just despawned.

I‘d prefer the pre 3.0 way of it instead of the broken recycle we got with 4.0

[grapedog]

This is normal behavior of any of the factions I think? They recycle ships sold to them (Unless the docks are full, if they are they fail to dock and then just sit in space stationary forever).
No faction actually use the ships sold to them, I dont think they ever have?

This, no ships sold directly/manually are used. They are just recycled for resources. Though I'm not sure if only resources used in the construction are recycled or they are magically converted to what that wharf uses.
Pre 4.0 they are just despawned.

I‘d prefer the pre 3.0 way of it instead of the broken recycle we got with 4.0

And see, i prefer the current method over what we used to have.

[Raptor34]

This is normal behavior of any of the factions I think? They recycle ships sold to them (Unless the docks are full, if they are they fail to dock and then just sit in space stationary forever).
No faction actually use the ships sold to them, I dont think they ever have?

This, no ships sold directly/manually are used. They are just recycled for resources. Though I'm not sure if only resources used in the construction are recycled or they are magically converted to what that wharf uses.
Pre 4.0 they are just despawned.

I‘d prefer the pre 3.0 way of it instead of the broken recycle we got with 4.0

I see someone selling hundreds of ships.

[jlehtone]

This, no ships sold directly/manually are used. They are just recycled for resources.

The NPC factions (including Xenon) have "jobs". A job contains some ships of some type.

For example, TER has (at least) two different "Intervention Corps" jobs:
* Asgard, 2 Osaka, 12 Falx, 24 Kukri
* Tokyo, Osaka, 35 Gladius/Kukri
There is at most one of each. A new job is built after old one is lost.
Xenon have more than one (Xenon I, 2 Xenon K, some P/M/N) jobs.

There are limits on how many jobs the faction can have in total and how many in one sector. "Quotas".

Since there are limits on how many ships and of what type, the NPC factions can't use the "junk" that player drops to them. They might be able to order a job from player Wharf instead of from their own Wharf. Can your Wharf build Xenon ships?

[Raptor34]

This, no ships sold directly/manually are used. They are just recycled for resources.

The NPC factions (including Xenon) have "jobs". A job contains some ships of some type.

For example, TER has (at least) two different "Intervention Corps" jobs:
* Asgard, 2 Osaka, 12 Falx, 24 Kukri
* Tokyo, Osaka, 35 Gladius/Kukri
There is at most one of each. A new job is built after old one is lost.
Xenon have more than one (Xenon I, 2 Xenon K, some P/M/N) jobs.

There are limits on how many jobs the faction can have in total and how many in one sector. "Quotas".

Since there are limits on how many ships and of what type, the NPC factions can't use the "junk" that player drops to them. They might be able to order a job from player Wharf instead of from their own Wharf. Can your Wharf build Xenon ships?

While what you're saying is true, its also misleading.
The way you mentioned it implies that if there are free jobs that ships sold to them can be slotted in, assuming you are selling the right type of ship. But I assume that's not actually true right? Or is it theoretically possible?

[jlehtone]

While what you're saying is true, its also misleading.
The way you mentioned it implies that if there are free jobs that ships sold to them can be slotted in, assuming you are selling the right type of ship. But I assume that's not actually true right? Or is it theoretically possible?

AFAIK, there is no attempt to "slot" into "free jobs". Too difficult. Everything that you sell is treated as "disposable junk". Pre-4.0 it did not help NPC at all. Now they at least might get resources.

NPC uses only what they buy from Wharfs/Yards. (And possibly the Guild mission Procure ship/fleets.)

[grapedog]

(And possibly the Guild mission Procure ship/fleets.)

I know ive seen NPC factions use ships i built for missions. You can even find that same fleet kicking around an hour+ later if it isn't destroyed by their enemies.

[Raevyan]

And see, i prefer the current method over what we used to have.

I would prefer the current method too, if it would actually work. But there is the usual IF because it doesn’t work and results in hundreds of ships sitting near shipyards doing nothing but degrading performance.

Ps: for everyone now saying the issue only exists because I sold so many ships: it happens as soon as you sell more ships than the shipyard has docks at once. I.e. for L ships when you sell more than 2.

[grapedog]

And see, i prefer the current method over what we used to have.

I would prefer the current method too, if it would actually work. But there is the usual IF because it doesn’t work and results in hundreds of ships sitting near shipyards doing nothing but degrading performance.

Ps: for everyone now saying the issue only exists because I sold so many ships: it happens as soon as you sell more ships than the shipyard has docks at once. I.e. for L ships when you sell more than 2.

Ive had zero issues selling hundreds of ships(about 800 S/M ships) when i was downsizing my fleets. I had zero issues a 2nd time when i was upgrading from M to L miners, selling about 150 M miners.

Though i did spread out my sales to every wharf and shipyard for each faction.

I don't just build and sell ships though, that is so silly. My shipyards already make me ridiculous amounts of cash... so manually building and selling just seems stupid.

[Midnitewolf]

And see, i prefer the current method over what we used to have.

I would prefer the current method too, if it would actually work. But there is the usual IF because it doesn’t work and results in hundreds of ships sitting near shipyards doing nothing but degrading performance.

Ps: for everyone now saying the issue only exists because I sold so many ships: it happens as soon as you sell more ships than the shipyard has docks at once. I.e. for L ships when you sell more than 2.

I got to ask though, where are you getting these ships to sell in those quantities? If your building them at your own shipyard and then selling them manually, then technically your exploiting the system. I mean you can do what you want since it is a single player game but the game wasn't designed in a fashion for you to be manually selling hundreds of ships rolling off your Wharf. It was designed for you to sell these ships through your Wharf. Yeah I know about the nerf but whether we like it or not, it was nerfed for a reason. All your doing by manually selling your production is bypassing the nerf which is exactly why it is an exploit and the reason why what your doing is breaking the mechanic resulting in all those ships sitting around for you eating up performance. I mean why would anyone expect an exploit to result in flawless execution?

By the way, make enough noise complaining about how the "Exploit" is causing issues and you have a surefire way to ensure that they devs fix the exploit and it won't be in the way you wanted it fixed either. Just saying.

[dyingcrow]

By the way, make enough noise complaining about how the "Exploit" is causing issues and you have a surefire way to ensure that they devs fix the exploit and it won't be in the way you wanted it fixed either. Just saying.

Not entirely sure about that.
For one single reason: you're just making money you really have no use for, it doesn't provide any direct benefit or advantage. For the matter, having a ton of shipyards and wharves and building an ungodly amount of ships to delete a faction would be an exploit. And it's not. Even on a situation where the player could, let's say, be friendly with both HOP and PAR, and wants HOP exterminated by PAR - sell ships to the PAR, use the money to buy ships from the HOP and deplete their resources, sell them back to PAR and get some investment back. I mean, as long as there are no faction dynamics, this will always be possible, very cheesy. I wouldn't be surprised if someone out there actually does this out of greed and keeping hands clean.

I look at the nerf as a way to make player-owned ship build installations not as a way to make money, instead, be independent of their own ship production, and leave factions installations alone to build their own ships.

Serious exploits is something like what you can do with FO4, have a pipe pistol which uses that very crappy abundant ammo but fires mini nukes that do mini nuke damage. In X4 terms, if it was possible to have S\M bolt guns and turrets or whatever doing L plasma amounts of damage (with no mods, of course) with some cheeky swaps, now, that'd be a serious exploit.

A lot of these little things could be fixed with faction dynamics. In the HOP-PAR example above, the HOP would be very likely to turn on the player very quickly for helping the PAR. The way the game is set is to incentivize the player to be friendly to everyone and spin ships and make money that serves no purpose beyond a certain point, which makes things a bit boring, if you ask me.

Maybe there are a few exceptions, but on the first run (and certainly the only for many), most players will do exactly that: be friends with everyone, complain the Xenon are way too powerful early game, build up to go delete some Xenon, then come back and complain them Xenon are already pretty much extinct, so they have no "bad guys" to shoot at. Then realize all the money they made is worth nothing, and go play something else.

I had to develop that a bit more as part of the bigger picture - when you change something in a game as part of development, do it with a purpose, state that purpose AND if it's part of a bigger plan.

[Raevyan]

And see, i prefer the current method over what we used to have.

I would prefer the current method too, if it would actually work. But there is the usual IF because it doesn’t work and results in hundreds of ships sitting near shipyards doing nothing but degrading performance.

Ps: for everyone now saying the issue only exists because I sold so many ships: it happens as soon as you sell more ships than the shipyard has docks at once. I.e. for L ships when you sell more than 2.

Ive had zero issues selling hundreds of ships(about 800 S/M ships) when i was downsizing my fleets. I had zero issues a 2nd time when i was upgrading from M to L miners, selling about 150 M miners.

Though i did spread out my sales to every wharf and shipyard for each faction.

I don't just build and sell ships though, that is so silly. My shipyards already make me ridiculous amounts of cash... so manually building and selling just seems stupid.

I had this happen for S, M and L ships. It only happened once for M ships though. I only built and sold them manually because i did build it in terran space with terran blueprints, but they weren't ordering any ships.

[grapedog]

I would prefer the current method too, if it would actually work. But there is the usual IF because it doesn’t work and results in hundreds of ships sitting near shipyards doing nothing but degrading performance.

Ps: for everyone now saying the issue only exists because I sold so many ships: it happens as soon as you sell more ships than the shipyard has docks at once. I.e. for L ships when you sell more than 2.

Ive had zero issues selling hundreds of ships(about 800 S/M ships) when i was downsizing my fleets. I had zero issues a 2nd time when i was upgrading from M to L miners, selling about 150 M miners.

Though i did spread out my sales to every wharf and shipyard for each faction.

I don't just build and sell ships though, that is so silly. My shipyards already make me ridiculous amounts of cash... so manually building and selling just seems stupid.

I had this happen for S, M and L ships. It only happened once for M ships though. I only built and sold them manually because i did build it in terran space with terran blueprints, but they weren't ordering any ships.

The TER don't order ships because they got gift wrapped a super easy scenario.

They have their own super easy economy. They have no faction enemies, and no wars, except with the xenon of savage spur... but those xenon are being attacked by at least 3 factions, TER, ARG, and ANT, and then also the ZYA through tharkas cascade. They also have no back doors into their system, and asteroid belt is protected by like 5 sectors of another friendly faction on its other entrance. And they already have a large OP defense force with really good ships.

Unless you put TER to war, they have very little ships lost.