@Egosoft Too many mining ships in the game, Preformance is bad

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GCU Grey Area
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Re: @Egosoft Too many mining ships in the game, Preformance is bad

Post by GCU Grey Area » Sat, 1. May 21, 09:13

Midnitewolf wrote:
Sat, 1. May 21, 04:05
This depends on a lot of factors but I am seems to recall another thread where someone did some extensive research and found that M miners were more efficient over all. I know observationally, the fact that M miners use gates correctly, can use superhighway and have a much faster docking/undocking and load/unload procedures seems to make them better. Also you have cost to think about as well. If I recall correctly, you can buy something like 5 M miners for the cost of a L miner which gives you greater transport capacity for the same costs. Eventually when you got more credits coming in than you can spend, there are a lot of reasons to go L but early on I would say, M are much better.
Sorry, going to take my own research over a vague mention of someone else's. Have done my own tests & have been using L's pretty much exclusively for mining since then. As for cost, really don't mind paying a bit more for a better ship. However that's not to say I don't have a use for M miners. Since 4.0 made it viable to use miners to transport resources I am using M's in that role. They're relatively short journeys (at which M miners with Combat 3 engines excel) between well defended stations so the vulnerability of M ships is pretty much a non-issue. Essentially they're either moving too fast to be shot at or, if waiting to pick up cargo, there are several dozen station turrets in close proximity to protect them. Also find it useful to have different icons on the map to make it easy to distinguish between miners & ships which handle internal logistics. I do a similar thing with my freighters - L's handle sales to NPC stations, M's transport stuff between my stations.

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grapedog
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Re: @Egosoft Too many mining ships in the game, Preformance is bad

Post by grapedog » Sat, 1. May 21, 15:34

In my longest game, a 1.0 save that i have been playing since the game released... i went and upgraded the vast majority of M miners to L miners.

I can't say performance improved at all, but that save already has me at over 2k ships probably. Where i had two M miners I now have one L miner.

L miners do offer way more piece of mind. It pretty much takes a rattleanake now to bother them. So i lose miners a lot less often overall to xenon, kha'ak, or pirates.

Midnitewolf
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Re: @Egosoft Too many mining ships in the game, Preformance is bad

Post by Midnitewolf » Mon, 3. May 21, 22:44

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Sat, 1. May 21, 09:13
Midnitewolf wrote:
Sat, 1. May 21, 04:05
This depends on a lot of factors but I am seems to recall another thread where someone did some extensive research and found that M miners were more efficient over all. I know observationally, the fact that M miners use gates correctly, can use superhighway and have a much faster docking/undocking and load/unload procedures seems to make them better. Also you have cost to think about as well. If I recall correctly, you can buy something like 5 M miners for the cost of a L miner which gives you greater transport capacity for the same costs. Eventually when you got more credits coming in than you can spend, there are a lot of reasons to go L but early on I would say, M are much better.
Sorry, going to take my own research over a vague mention of someone else's. Have done my own tests & have been using L's pretty much exclusively for mining since then. As for cost, really don't mind paying a bit more for a better ship. However that's not to say I don't have a use for M miners. Since 4.0 made it viable to use miners to transport resources I am using M's in that role. They're relatively short journeys (at which M miners with Combat 3 engines excel) between well defended stations so the vulnerability of M ships is pretty much a non-issue. Essentially they're either moving too fast to be shot at or, if waiting to pick up cargo, there are several dozen station turrets in close proximity to protect them. Also find it useful to have different icons on the map to make it easy to distinguish between miners & ships which handle internal logistics. I do a similar thing with my freighters - L's handle sales to NPC stations, M's transport stuff between my stations.
I honestly don't think there is a "Wrong" way of doing things and the game is so wonky at times, any hardcore attempt to figure out just what is the best way is kind of a shot in the dark anyway. I see pros and cons to both to be honest. I do like your logic about using the M miners to transfer resources. The only issue with it is how long it takes for AI ships to traverse a gate as that is where I always seem lose ships to pirates or even wandering Xenon raiding parties.

I still stick by my assertion that using a large M fleet is better for the first half of the game.

flatbush71

Re: @Egosoft Too many mining ships in the game, Preformance is bad

Post by flatbush71 » Mon, 3. May 21, 23:35

I switched over to the non-Steam.exe and it made an enormous difference for me. ( i7-10700 CPU )
Can't say for you others guys, but its only way to go for me now on other than to update

GCU Grey Area
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Re: @Egosoft Too many mining ships in the game, Preformance is bad

Post by GCU Grey Area » Mon, 3. May 21, 23:44

Midnitewolf wrote:
Mon, 3. May 21, 22:44
The only issue with it is how long it takes for AI ships to traverse a gate as that is where I always seem lose ships to pirates or even wandering Xenon raiding parties.
Can recommend Terran ships & engines if you want ships which accelerate hard almost immediately after leaving a gate, particularly if you've got the parts to modify them for extra travel mode speed. Very fond of basic Polisher chassis & Reaver engine mods for all of my L freighters & miners.

They've been running almost entirely without incident for the past 10 days or so of my current game. Occasionally a pirate hassles them, however the phenomenal acceleration of Terran engines has made them surprisingly good at evading pirates, even the pirates flying ships which are supposedly a lot faster than them (e.g. Rattlesnakes). Whenever one of them notifies me of a pirate's threat I check relative positions - if the pirate's behind them I cancel the automatic flee & let them continue on their way. If it's in front I give them a couple of fly to orders to route them around the threat. The pirates normally abandon the chase as soon as it's clear they won't be able to keep up with the acceleration of a Terran ship running on Terran engines.

Only significant incident to date was entirely my fault. I mostly keep my freighters well away from Xenon infested areas, however messed up a manual trade - didn't spot it's destination was a TEL station in Matrix #451 until it called for help when it encountered a K immediately after leaving the gate from Ianamus Zura. Since it was already under fire, almost from the moment emerged from the gate, it had no chance to get it's engine into travel mode & was destroyed shortly thereafter. However, aside from that one incident, have been really quite impressed with how good Terran L freighters & miners have been at not getting themselves killed. Much lower attrition rate than I'd normally expect by this point in the game.

BelatedHero
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Re: @Egosoft Too many mining ships in the game, Preformance is bad

Post by BelatedHero » Tue, 4. May 21, 03:48

Midnitewolf wrote:
Sat, 1. May 21, 04:05
This depends on a lot of factors but I am seems to recall another thread where someone did some extensive research and found that M miners were more efficient over all. I know observationally, the fact that M miners use gates correctly, can use superhighway and have a much faster docking/undocking and load/unload procedures seems to make them better. Also you have cost to think about as well. If I recall correctly, you can buy something like 5 M miners for the cost of a L miner which gives you greater transport capacity for the same costs. Eventually when you got more credits coming in than you can spend, there are a lot of reasons to go L but early on I would say, M are much better.
I think I know the post to which you are referring. It was excellent research at the time, but things have changed. Namely that L miners no longer have trouble at gates. The problem was the miner would stop, spend about 2 minutes lining up at the rear of the gate before flying through. Egosoft has since changed things so that L ships just have to be in very close proximity to the gate and they "poof" out of existence to traverse it. It has been an effective change to make L ships more viable.

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