Make Xenons great again

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Karmaticdamage
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Karmaticdamage » Sun, 25. Apr 21, 00:44

Its not just the terrans. The player rarely witnesses it, but xenon mining ships are being attacked and killed off by the new 4.0 khaak the same as any other faction.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by ZaphodBeeblebrox » Sun, 25. Apr 21, 08:46

Matrix #9 in my game has 7 K and an I just waiting for me to pop my head through the gate.
With a veritable armada of smaller ships.

I tested the waters not long ago and was wiped. Not sure how much more "great" the Xenons actually need.
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jlehtone
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by jlehtone » Sun, 25. Apr 21, 11:15

ZaphodBeeblebrox wrote:
Sun, 25. Apr 21, 08:46
Matrix #9 in my game has 7 K and an I just waiting for me to pop my head through the gate.
With a veritable armada of smaller ships.

I tested the waters not long ago and was wiped. Not sure how much more "great" the Xenons actually need.
Elsewhere:
j.harshaw wrote:
Sat, 24. Apr 21, 01:47
For example, one of their [Xenon] fleets is comprised of a K, 3 Ps, and 12 Ms or Ns. (There is some variability with some of the fleets but this particular one is very rigid.) This fleet has a galaxy quota of 6, and a cluster quota of 4. At game start, these fleets might concentrate in two clusters leaving gaps elsewhere, or spread out over six clusters spreading themselves thin. If they lose ground, they tend to concentrate, reaching maximum saturation at 2 clusters assuming they are able to build all of these fleets with the resources and production capacity of those two clusters.
If four such fleets are in #9 (4K, 12P, 48[MN]), then at most two are in (some) other sectors. An "I fleet" has at least 1I and 2K. The seventh K ... don't know.

Basically, almost all Xenon in your Galaxy are in #9. As long as they stay there, all the other Xenon sectors are weak.
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Alm888
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Alm888 » Sun, 25. Apr 21, 18:51

In my 4.0 game Xenon are total pushovers. It is not that they've lost all of their forces; no, instead they are trying their best to not lose anything.

In fact, it seems they are trying so hard that even slight possibility of hostile contact forces them to withdraw further into their territory.

TEL have captured "Matrix #451" and "Turquoise Sea" and are on the doorstep to "Scale Plate Green" What do Xenon do? Are they mounting a blockade on the other side of the gates? NO, they've retracted all of their forces to a shipyard. :(

Both ANT and HOP are invading the "Atiya's Misfortune" -- "Faulty Logic" cluster. The Xenon do have an I and 6-7 K plus various S-M ships there. Do they try to obliterate ANT or HOP defense stations near the entrance? NO, they've retreated to AM_III-FL_VII !!! They still have their defense platforms in AM_I and FL_I and both superhighways are not under siege, but no Xenon protection could be seen. I'm sure, if it was possible, the Xenon would evacuate their Defense Platforms as well!

Some TER fleet marched to Savage Spur I (that's right, trough Tharka's Cascade->Matrix #79B), obliterated both the Yaki base and Xenon Wharf and Shipyard in Savage Spur I. No meaningful resistance from Xenon.

Never, not even once have I seen a message about increased Xenon reconnaissance or "mounting defense" somewhere. It seems the Xenon just do not want to win! In fact, they are doing everything possible to lose, even without my involvement at all. :(

Sauerlandbub
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Xenons need help

Post by Sauerlandbub » Mon, 26. Apr 21, 07:59

In my game many destroyer (5-12) of different faction are waiting at gates for xenon to come out.
If a K shows his nose he is killed before his back is out of gate.

Only one sector was taken by Xenon, but they lost some.
Turquoise Sea is completely empty, they do not overtake it.

jlehtone
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Re: Xenons need help

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 26. Apr 21, 09:03

Sauerlandbub wrote:
Mon, 26. Apr 21, 07:59
If a K shows his nose he is killed before his back is out of gate.
What they have and what they do.

In what conditions does a faction "show their nose"?
You can be very aggressive and send every ship immediately to raids. They go alone and die quick. You can't build an effective fleet that way.
You can be passive and never leave home. You may, or may not have a huge fleet. Probably do, eventually. It could squash suicide runners easily.
Or, you could be passive until you become strong. Then you send armada.

If Xenon are allowed to build big, but are forced to stay passive, then they are a challenge only when player explicitly attacks them.
If Xenon fleets cannot grow, but do continuously raid, then they are a continuous (minor) harassment whether player likes that or not.
If Xenon do raids with big fleets, then they are a serious threat as they can steamroll.

I have a feeling that Xenon became more passive already with 3.30. Either that or something that I or factions did did toggle them into "wait for condition X before attack"-state.
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chasepack
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by chasepack » Mon, 26. Apr 21, 16:08

I wonder if the Intervention fleet is doing too much to weaken the Xenon. I get it, that it is their role.
But the xenon should not be push-overs either, they probably should double down their effort with every capship/station/sector loss.

The northern map in my 3.30 game is rampant with Xenon... while the 4.0 game is kinda meh... the xenon are getting tangled up with Ter... so the split gets to field fleets of multiple rattlesnakes at the xenon...

Currently the Intervention asgard or tokyo typically wipes the gate defenses then floats around pretty until sometime finally overwhelms them.
Though I seem to recall seeing an Intervention Tokyo going back to the Moon for repairs (with a bunch of half damaged S ships in tow)

The Ks and Is were far more scary without the Terrans around.
The ATF ships are like the anti-venom to xenon's poison

i wonder if its possible or is there already a mod that rubberbands the aggressiveness of the Xenon according to how much it gains/loses...

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spankahontis
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by spankahontis » Mon, 26. Apr 21, 16:40

jlehtone wrote:
Sun, 18. Apr 21, 18:40
Raptor34 wrote:
Sun, 18. Apr 21, 18:24
I've noticed Tharka's Fall on a new COH game that there is a single XEN defense station there while it remains unclaimed. Perhaps a bug? I've never went and scout the station personally, only remotely.
At 155 hours Xenon were still in Tharka's Fall. Game version was 3.30.
At 233 hours it was already abandoned.
It starts with a huge Xenon force, but it has no Shipyard or Wharf so eventually it's whittled away into nothing.
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Raevyan
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Raevyan » Sat, 22. May 21, 15:00

Can we make xenons great again without waiting another couple of month until 4.10 is released??? It’s already too late to fix the oos calculations because this won’t do anything if there are no xenons left in the game.

jlehtone
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by jlehtone » Sat, 22. May 21, 15:31

"Some NPC might die brutally to keep the Xenon alive until then, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
Lord F.
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nemo1887
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by nemo1887 » Sat, 22. May 21, 15:31

before the 4.0 the xenons was strong but not too much , they invaded areas it was hard to calm them but we managed , I saw the difference with a backup or several sectors xenons that sent a lot of ships with 3.0 + and now with the same backup and always in the same period the xenons are like asleep! the problem = pass the backup to 4.0!!!

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Axeface
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Axeface » Wed, 26. May 21, 14:19

Ive actually put playing X4 on hold because of this (unmodded). I dont want to lose the xenon from my game so ive been capturing asgards (12 now) for about a game day or more trying to help them, but its not working. Ive stopped playing because I realised that it feels odd and immersion breaking to be doing this. The xenon are on the verge of collapse in atiyas, have already lost faulty logic completely, matrix 451 and 9 have many other factions stations now and they are slowly being wiped out, matrix 79b, savage spur and tharkas are gone (because i did the yaki plot). In emperors pride they have lost the first sector completely and the paranid are pushing into the last one. Xenon are strong in Scale plate green but the teladi are very well established in company pride with large fleets actively defending, looks like that will be their last holdout and the teladi alone will stop them for leaving scale plate entirely - although the terrans havent sent asgards there yet...

I feel like this issue needs to be addressed incredibly carefully though, they need a tiny push, not a big one. Tbh my hope is that the asgards main gun gets a nerf, its a gamebreaking ship. I have many of them now and 1 shotting a xenon I (without even bothering to mod the ship up) doesnt feel good (also think a longer beam time to spread out the damage some more would actually feel nicer, along with giving it a very small amount of gimbal).

Raptor34
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Raptor34 » Wed, 26. May 21, 14:49

Axeface wrote:
Wed, 26. May 21, 14:19
Ive actually put playing X4 on hold because of this (unmodded). I dont want to lose the xenon from my game so ive been capturing asgards (12 now) for about a game day or more trying to help them, but its not working. Ive stopped playing because I realised that it feels odd and immersion breaking to be doing this. The xenon are on the verge of collapse in atiyas, have already lost faulty logic completely, matrix 451 and 9 have many other factions stations now and they are slowly being wiped out, matrix 79b, savage spur and tharkas are gone (because i did the yaki plot). In emperors pride they have lost the first sector completely and the paranid are pushing into the last one. Xenon are strong in Scale plate green but the teladi are very well established in company pride with large fleets actively defending, looks like that will be their last holdout and the teladi alone will stop them for leaving scale plate entirely - although the terrans havent sent asgards there yet...

I feel like this issue needs to be addressed incredibly carefully though, they need a tiny push, not a big one. Tbh my hope is that the asgards main gun gets a nerf, its a gamebreaking ship. I have many of them now and 1 shotting a xenon I (without even bothering to mod the ship up) doesnt feel good (also think a longer beam time to spread out the damage some more would actually feel nicer, along with giving it a very small amount of gimbal).
That's why you just leave one of your own Asgards in the XL fab so they can't build more.
And refuse their calls when they ask you to remove it.

Felicitus Bigbeaver
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Felicitus Bigbeaver » Wed, 26. May 21, 21:50

One possibility without upsetting those who are get upset by rather than cheered by Xenon Invasions is to restart the xenon invasion missions. Then for X4 to measure how often you accept them and to turn up the xenon attacks. Another way is to include one way gates, and allow massive xenon fleets through from outside the play are into the current x4 map. I am really hoping the Khaak are reintroduced in the third expansion, with clusters and corvettes and destroyers. Oh Yes.

Raevyan
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Raevyan » Thu, 27. May 21, 01:18

Raptor34 wrote:
Wed, 26. May 21, 14:49


That's why you just leave one of your own Asgards in the XL fab so they can't build more.
And refuse their calls when they ask you to remove it.
That’s a rather cheesy way and does not solve the main issue with the xenon and the screwed up oos calculation. Dunno what Egosoft is waiting for. 4.10 is still months away judging by the podcast. This needed fixing weeks ago. I feel like they got very well disconnected with the community.

Dreez
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Dreez » Thu, 27. May 21, 11:14

After paying attention to the state of my current game which i started at 1.0 and kept going,
the Xenon are getting wiped off the map slowly. Teladi and paranid are cleaning up the sectors closest
to them and the sectors near split are full of split stations - eventho i only bought that DLC a few days ago (game time).

So yeah... i'm starting to believe that Xenon needs litte buff of some kind, they're suppose to be a menace that invades
sectors and if left unchecked, can end up wipe entire sectors clean from the local inhabitans.

So in hindsight, they could use some help to get back on their feet and be the threat they're suppose to be.

Currently the only threat they pose is to my capitalships when i engage a xenon defense station,
which is easily solved by simply bombing the L-turrets pre-fleet attack.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

jlehtone
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 27. May 21, 13:01

Dreez wrote:
Thu, 27. May 21, 11:14
they're suppose to be a menace that invades sectors and if left unchecked, can end up wipe entire sectors clean from the local inhabitans.
Are they?

There can be at least three types of invaders:
  • Nothing - player never has to do anything to cope with them. It could be that the resources that we help to deliver to NPC (if we trade/build) enables NPC wipe out the threats hands down
  • Nuisance - invaders are everywhere, but so weak that they are easy to wipe from windscreen. Player has to invest something to the wiping. Continuous investment, but trivial
  • Death - Player has to focus 100% to destruction of invaders or everything will be destroyed. Being sloppy, even for a moment, is not an option
I'm quite sure that many of us do not want to play only the space invaders of the last type.

However, that is only the aggressive side. The threat that comes to us. Semi-unrelated is us invading the foreign space.

Deep strikes to enemy logistics should affect their aggression. TER can't build Asgards non-stop, if we fill their build queue with XL Builders, L Traders, and L Miners. If Xenon pour out from inaccessible sectors via oneway gates, then such tactical option does not exist and we are back to "magic spawns" of the previous games.

Even if the Xenon would do the Nothing-type invasions, their home sectors could be a Death-level challenge. Defense-oriented. Something that no NPC fleet can take. For mere trader that would be awesome, if NPC factions do try (i.e. suicide) continuously then they eagerly buy all that you can produce. For a combat pilot there would be something to shoot at (until you get too strong).
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Dreez
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Dreez » Thu, 27. May 21, 19:35

jlehtone wrote:
Thu, 27. May 21, 13:01
Dreez wrote:
Thu, 27. May 21, 11:14
they're suppose to be a menace that invades sectors and if left unchecked, can end up wipe entire sectors clean from the local inhabitans.
Are they?

I'm quite sure that many of us do not want to play only the space invaders of the last type.

However, that is only the aggressive side. The threat that comes to us. Semi-unrelated is us invading the foreign space.
They should deffo have more strength and aggresiveness than now, because currently they're just tincans getting bullied by every faction.
In X3TC/Alb , Xenon would attack with 1-4 destroyers or carriers and an army of fighters , more than capable or stomping a zone and
make short work of most defense forces sent to deal with them.

Most of the times you'd have to jump a destroyer or bomber there to aid, or lose all stations in the zone.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

Araknis
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Araknis » Sat, 29. May 21, 00:16

I started a new game after all the recent releases, patch and dlc and i have to admit that Xenon are getting owned everywhere,
The Paranid took over easily Faulty Logic and are about to finish Atiya's Misfortune.
I cleared Savage Spur I, Matrix 79B and Tharka's Cascade for the Yaki plot, the Terrans have cleared Savage Spur II.
The only Xenon left are above Family Zhin, where Terrans keep sending Asgards and i keep boarding them, cause to be honest, Xenon seem to be an endangered species now, so i dont leave any ships that can actually kill their stations get there and finish the job.
I think they need a little bit of love to resurface.

Mistle
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Mistle » Wed, 2. Jun 21, 09:54

From yesterday Xenons in my universe are extinct species.
I couldn't even preserve them in a kind of nature reserve with subtitles like " Don't feed the Xenons" or " Don't throw silicons on Xenons" so family trips could visit and father could tells to children " I remember some days they were giant threat to universe" or " Be quiet maybe we will see the last I battleship"

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