Ego... you're forcing me to crush the FRF... and i don't wanna

[BlackRain]

I really don't wanna wipe the Free Families off the map.... but if I can't find a way to put a stop to FAF Dragon Raider pirates, I'm going to have to do just that. I already have a battle group camping right on top of the L fabrication bay at their shipyard, instantly murdering any FAF Rattlesnakes that get built... but the dragon raiders, slippery little bastards that they are, slip away quite quickly before I'm always able to turn them into stardust.

If I have to destroy an entire faction, to stop the pirates that they so nonchalantly produce... I'll do it.

But I'd really appreciate more alternatives.

Actually I feel your pain. The scripted nature of so much of the diplomacy and conflict in this game really puts a major crimp on trying to use your own imagination to create fun and exciting scenarios.

For example I was so frustrated yesterday because I did the Terran Cadet start with the intention of claiming the neutral sector of Getsu Fune as my own. I immediately jumped on, rushed around doing everything to get money and rep ASAP, got the blueprints for the admin center and defensive modules and rushed over the claim the system only to find out I couldn't because that sector is integral to the Story.

Slowly but surely I am starting to realize that they game I though was a Sandbox, either isn't a Sandbox or the Developers forgot to add the sand.

At the end of the day, I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want a Sandbox mode for this game. One without the stories, without the scripted events and conflicts and without all the limitation this implies. I want dynamic wars, meaningful territory control and the ability to CREATE MY OWN LORE AND STORY completely separate from any and all other considerations. God I want this version of the game SO, SO BADLY.

You can claim Getsine fune just fine, the story missions have nothing to do with it. Not sure why this is a complaint?

[BlackRain]

As for the topic, there is a way to pretty much get rid of FAF doing the split campaign. Side with Zyarch and help them win. Once they win, it tells you that FaF wont be much of a problem anymore

[LennStar]

Interesting. I have never seen a FRF ship in my Terran game (~100 hours).

[grapedog]

As for the topic, there is a way to pretty much get rid of FAF doing the split campaign. Side with Zyarch and help them win. Once they win, it tells you that FaF wont be much of a problem anymore

Then if i side with Curbs, i should get a positive bump with FRF and FAF. But that doesn't happen...

[BlackRain]

As for the topic, there is a way to pretty much get rid of FAF doing the split campaign. Side with Zyarch and help them win. Once they win, it tells you that FaF wont be much of a problem anymore

Then if i side with Curbs, i should get a positive bump with FRF and FAF. But that doesn't happen...

That is just your opinion and obviously not the opinion of Egosoft I guess.

[grapedog]

As for the topic, there is a way to pretty much get rid of FAF doing the split campaign. Side with Zyarch and help them win. Once they win, it tells you that FaF wont be much of a problem anymore

Then if i side with Curbs, i should get a positive bump with FRF and FAF. But that doesn't happen...

That is just your opinion and obviously not the opinion of Egosoft I guess.

It is just an opinion, but right now FAF is a broken faction whem it comes to relations. There is largely no way to control it, unless i either do one specific story arc, or just let them ravage my fleets.

Or do what i do now, which is camp their shipyards and kill them upon spawning, which a little alarm lets me know immediately when they pop. I don't like doing that though...

[aquatica]

FAF is annoying.

SCA Phoenixes are worse.

SCA Odyssey's? The hell is with this...

Ofc FAF Rattlesnakes are annoying, however they've left my fleets alone for longest of times. SCA on the other hand harrassess me all the time everywhere.

[Raptor34]

FAF is annoying.

SCA Phoenixes are worse.

SCA Odyssey's? The hell is with this...

Ofc FAF Rattlesnakes are annoying, however they've left my fleets alone for longest of times. SCA on the other hand harrassess me all the time everywhere.

You mean Behemoths? Or did 4.0 add SCA Oddys? I've heard rumors that some plot explains how SCA gets all their ships.

[aquatica]

FAF is annoying.

SCA Phoenixes are worse.

SCA Odyssey's? The hell is with this...

Ofc FAF Rattlesnakes are annoying, however they've left my fleets alone for longest of times. SCA on the other hand harrassess me all the time everywhere.

You mean Behemoths? Or did 4.0 add SCA Oddys? I've heard rumors that some plot explains how SCA gets all their ships.

Oh, they do have Behemoths too. Those just seem to be so rare it's a non-issue.

You know the annoying thing when you have traders in uhm, Lasting Vengeance and 3 HOP Oddy's turn SCA Oddy's?
Yeah.
It was annoying.

Also at the time I had nothing to shoot an Oddy dead. Against Minotaurs and other smaller raiders it's easy to scan them -> get the real party revealed -> kill them with (apparently) no reputation lost on the "hiding" faction. However killing Oddies is not fun when the heaviest ship you have is a Katana.

As if FAF rattlesnakes aren't bad enough, having SCA destroyers *all over the place* is even more annoying.

[dtpsprt]

You know the annoying thing when you have traders in uhm, Lasting Vengeance and 3 HOP Oddy's turn SCA Oddy's?
Yeah.
It was annoying.

Also at the time I had nothing to shoot an Oddy dead. Against Minotaurs and other smaller raiders it's easy to scan them -> get the real party revealed -> kill them with (apparently) no reputation lost on the "hiding" faction. However killing Oddies is not fun when the heaviest ship you have is a Katana.

As if FAF rattlesnakes aren't bad enough, having SCA destroyers *all over the place* is even more annoying.

They do? Will go hunting for some...

BTW, the first thing a player should do (OK among the first) is bag some 3-4 Minotaur Raiders to have as a "Boarding Fleet" so SCA (and even FAF later) Destroyers are fully boardable...

[aquatica]

You know the annoying thing when you have traders in uhm, Lasting Vengeance and 3 HOP Oddy's turn SCA Oddy's?
Yeah.
It was annoying.

Also at the time I had nothing to shoot an Oddy dead. Against Minotaurs and other smaller raiders it's easy to scan them -> get the real party revealed -> kill them with (apparently) no reputation lost on the "hiding" faction. However killing Oddies is not fun when the heaviest ship you have is a Katana.

As if FAF rattlesnakes aren't bad enough, having SCA destroyers *all over the place* is even more annoying.

They do? Will go hunting for some...

BTW, the first thing a player should do (OK among the first) is bag some 3-4 Minotaur Raiders to have as a "Boarding Fleet" so SCA (and even FAF later) Destroyers are fully boardable...

I have to admit I have 0 boarded ships.

I'm not even sure who sells Minotaur Raiders, ANT? Just got my rep up to 20+ on TEL and HOP, soon at FRF and PAR, ANT and ARG to follow quickly behind. Constant issue for me now is the absolute swarm of K's and I's all around the space! Like several Xenon destroyers flying freely on Argon prime. All of their guns blown to smitherines but not destroyed. And there's plenty of these now, so much I'm worrying of imminent Xenon invasion even.

Oh, and several Xenon sectors are more or less in the hands of FRF and TEL ! And HOP.

[Raptor34]

FAF is annoying.

SCA Phoenixes are worse.

SCA Odyssey's? The hell is with this...

Ofc FAF Rattlesnakes are annoying, however they've left my fleets alone for longest of times. SCA on the other hand harrassess me all the time everywhere.

You mean Behemoths? Or did 4.0 add SCA Oddys? I've heard rumors that some plot explains how SCA gets all their ships.

Oh, they do have Behemoths too. Those just seem to be so rare it's a non-issue.

You know the annoying thing when you have traders in uhm, Lasting Vengeance and 3 HOP Oddy's turn SCA Oddy's?
Yeah.
It was annoying.

Also at the time I had nothing to shoot an Oddy dead. Against Minotaurs and other smaller raiders it's easy to scan them -> get the real party revealed -> kill them with (apparently) no reputation lost on the "hiding" faction. However killing Oddies is not fun when the heaviest ship you have is a Katana.

As if FAF rattlesnakes aren't bad enough, having SCA destroyers *all over the place* is even more annoying.

No mods? Think I need to go check it out then. I've never seen any SCA Oddys before, tons of Behemoths and Phoenixes though.

[j.harshaw]

@OP, pretty sure your being faced with this dilemma is the intent of the dynamics in that part of the universe. Can't confirm for sure since i didn't design it, but this is an expected result of those dynamics and i can say that those dynamics were very deliberately designed and fleshed-out. If any other solution presented itself, such as in the aforementioned Patriarchy route, the dilemma wouldn't exist.

@Midnitewolf, don't play the story missions? In my long game, i haven't even gotten the HQ. i think the story missions are well-made, and i'm glad to have them in, but i was always more interested in the simulation and carving my place in it; not just in this game. There are game starts that just kinda drop you into the game with no direction given so you could figure out your own way. Those were designed for players like us.

[grapedog]

@OP, pretty sure your being faced with this dilemma is the intent of the dynamics in that part of the universe. Can't confirm for sure since i didn't design it, but this is an expected result of those dynamics and i can say that those dynamics were very deliberately designed and fleshed-out. If any other solution presented itself, such as in the aforementioned Patriarchy route, the dilemma wouldn't exist.

That's pretty much a bummer, because in future playthroughs I'll never side with the Curbs again. There is just no long term benefit for it if eventually, just through defending my own assets, I'm going to always have FAF terrorizing my ships with Rattlesnakes and Dragon Raiders. That's an easy choice now to just avoid EVER helping the Curbs again. Which sucks... because that means I'll have to side with ZYA, or just avoid that storyline completely.... which is a terrible choice.

There needs to be some kind of way to work on FAF rep.

[dtpsprt]

I'm not even sure who sells Minotaur Raiders, ANT? Just got my rep up to 20+ on TEL and HOP, soon at FRF and PAR, ANT and ARG to follow quickly behind. Constant issue for me now is the absolute swarm of K's and I's all around the space! Like several Xenon destroyers flying freely on Argon prime. All of their guns blown to smitherines but not destroyed. And there's plenty of these now, so much I'm worrying of imminent Xenon invasion even.

Oh, and several Xenon sectors are more or less in the hands of FRF and TEL ! And HOP.

No... they belong to SCA and you see at least one in every Teladi sector... you just make them bail out and take them. Each one has space for 14 Marines (and one crew member for repairs)...

[dtpsprt]

@OP, pretty sure your being faced with this dilemma is the intent of the dynamics in that part of the universe. Can't confirm for sure since i didn't design it, but this is an expected result of those dynamics and i can say that those dynamics were very deliberately designed and fleshed-out. If any other solution presented itself, such as in the aforementioned Patriarchy route, the dilemma wouldn't exist.

That's pretty much a bummer, because in future playthroughs I'll never side with the Curbs again. There is just no long term benefit for it if eventually, just through defending my own assets, I'm going to always have FAF terrorizing my ships with Rattlesnakes and Dragon Raiders. That's an easy choice now to just avoid EVER helping the Curbs again. Which sucks... because that means I'll have to side with ZYA, or just avoid that storyline completely.... which is a terrible choice.

There needs to be some kind of way to work on FAF rep.

No dilemma whatsoever grapedog... One should follow the Split storyline till he/she gets the Cobra (best ship to defang an Asgard) and the other split ships, then let it bee, it's not paying anything, just like the Paraanid plot... If you want plots that are interesting (and not demanding useless tons of resources and money just to "stretch" them just a bit timewise) you follow the CoH ones... they are really in line with the X Universe we all knew (and loved it's plots)...

[darkstar12]

I just increase my Reputation Standing with FAF to avoid this. then sell them Rattlesnake destroyers so they can destroy the ships of the other factions that my shipyard produces

[Midnitewolf]

I really don't wanna wipe the Free Families off the map.... but if I can't find a way to put a stop to FAF Dragon Raider pirates, I'm going to have to do just that. I already have a battle group camping right on top of the L fabrication bay at their shipyard, instantly murdering any FAF Rattlesnakes that get built... but the dragon raiders, slippery little bastards that they are, slip away quite quickly before I'm always able to turn them into stardust.

If I have to destroy an entire faction, to stop the pirates that they so nonchalantly produce... I'll do it.

But I'd really appreciate more alternatives.

Actually I feel your pain. The scripted nature of so much of the diplomacy and conflict in this game really puts a major crimp on trying to use your own imagination to create fun and exciting scenarios.

For example I was so frustrated yesterday because I did the Terran Cadet start with the intention of claiming the neutral sector of Getsu Fune as my own. I immediately jumped on, rushed around doing everything to get money and rep ASAP, got the blueprints for the admin center and defensive modules and rushed over the claim the system only to find out I couldn't because that sector is integral to the Story.

Slowly but surely I am starting to realize that they game I though was a Sandbox, either isn't a Sandbox or the Developers forgot to add the sand.

At the end of the day, I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want a Sandbox mode for this game. One without the stories, without the scripted events and conflicts and without all the limitation this implies. I want dynamic wars, meaningful territory control and the ability to CREATE MY OWN LORE AND STORY completely separate from any and all other considerations. God I want this version of the game SO, SO BADLY.

You can claim Getsine fune just fine, the story missions have nothing to do with it. Not sure why this is a complaint?

I am going to include what I am referring to in a spoiler because it does have to do with the Story Line mission.

Spoiler

Show

Getsue Fune starts off as an unclaimed sector, however, very early in the story, your flying out to Terra's brand new Admin Center just built in Getsue Fune and you will now find that the sector is fully claimed by the Terran Protectorate. Antigone also will build a Admin center and contest it as well. Basically it is a scripted event that sets up the entire story line for the Terran Cadet arc. Therefore the only way for me to Claim it is now going to war with the Terran Protectorate.

Basically the problem I have is that much of what is going on in the galaxy is a scripted event. The conflicts are all scripted and locked. The Terran Protectorate for example is never going to decide to rid the galaxy of Aliens and declare war the the Paranid, Teladi and Split, I can't "arrange" that to happen. The entire galaxy operates according to one big unchanging script that prevents you from being able to craft your own scripts leading to infinite outcomes. This ability to create your own scripts and have the galaxy be a living, breathing, unpredictable thing with unlimited possibilities is pretty much a requirement for a game to be considered a Sandbox. The fact that the game is not designed this way, severely limits any sort of Sandbox experience you might have.

For the game to be a sandbox, the scripted stories did to disappear. They need to give you a starting point, nothing more an then let the game play out as it will. Wars need to be Dynamic and the player needs to be able to take part in those wars by joining/allying with a faction or starting their own wars.. There needs to be diplomacy options so that once objectives are met, you can sit down at the peace table and come up with a truce to end hostilities. Territory control has to be meaningful, not just a colored border around the sector. There has to be actually reasons why taking a sector matters like being able to take a choke point to force other factions to pay tariffs or prevent them from moving goods. You need to be able to take stations rather than just having to destroy them all, basically it just needs to be actually meaningful to hold territory in the game.

These are key elements for a Sandbox game, X4, from the outside, looks like a Sandbox and even functions like a Sandbox, right up until the scripted stories, lore and lack of those mechanics I listed above causes you to run right smack into a brick wall. That is why I really wish this game had a TRUE sandbox mod, one separate from story and future lore or what is "supposed" to happen in the Galaxy as time moves on. Then the game would finally be amazing.

[Virtualaughing]

Add two Katanas as escorts to each trader. Dragon raider will die in a fire to those.

You don't even have to do that. Just make sure that the escorts has the same home base as the traders. The manager will send out protection.
However they will attack xenon base and other threats on the way mindlessly.

[Raptor34]

Add two Katanas as escorts to each trader. Dragon raider will die in a fire to those.

You don't even have to do that. Just make sure that the escorts has the same home base as the traders. The manager will send out protection.
However they will attack xenon base and other threats on the way mindlessly.

Ignoring that part about attacking Xenons, does setting them as defend for the home station even work? I thought it was one of those things that sounds nice in theory but works badly in practise.