Ego soft needs to fix mining and khaak fast.

[Midnitewolf]

I just put 30 M ships to mimic patrol command, they spread out around the sector and can solo KHA spawns. Didn't lose a miner in hours in 100% my sector with kha installation constantly respawning.
Don't see the problem.

I don't have 30 M ships.

Yeah this is the problem. When your starting out, your entire resources are devoted to getting those 2-3 miners bringing in income so you can expand. There is no way in hell you have to necessary resources to have 30 M ships providing cover for 3 or 4 miners. Hell even late game, in most sectors I don't even have 30 miners working, usually just 4-5 for faction gain or maybe 15 or so near my main production center.

What is needed is the ability for your patrols to actually "React" to distress calls and come flying from across the system to help out the ship in distress. That way depending on what your facing, 2-3 M ships might be able to cover the entire sector.

One things I will say is that even without a "Reaction" having a patrol in the sector does help. I managed to cap a couple SCA Destroyers and Corvettes and have the running patrol and the frequency of attacks is much less.

[paraskous]

I just put 30 M ships to mimic patrol command, they spread out around the sector and can solo KHA spawns. Didn't lose a miner in hours in 100% my sector with kha installation constantly respawning.
Don't see the problem.

I don't have 30 M ships.

Yeah this is the problem. When your starting out, your entire resources are devoted to getting those 2-3 miners bringing in income so you can expand. There is no way in hell you have to necessary resources to have 30 M ships providing cover for 3 or 4 miners. Hell even late game, in most sectors I don't even have 30 miners working, usually just 4-5 for faction gain or maybe 15 or so near my main production center.

What is needed is the ability for your patrols to actually "React" to distress calls and come flying from across the system to help out the ship in distress. That way depending on what your facing, 2-3 M ships might be able to cover the entire sector.

One things I will say is that even without a "Reaction" having a patrol in the sector does help. I managed to cap a couple SCA Destroyers and Corvettes and have the running patrol and the frequency of attacks is much less.

30 miners is ludicrous. In past playthroughs 4 L Miners were like super-high investment. Now they're like M miners - peanuts employed en masse. I have 3 comutronics, 3 lattice and 3 SiC productions. I'm pretty sure the amount of miners I now employ have never been so many in any former playthrough. And I had more factories then too.
Yes, the Terran economy is different - I get it, but the 10 L miners aren't still enough to feed the materials. The gas seemed to work fine but I added one of the big eaters last and my Hydrogen really got out of hand. Bolo gas seemed to be able to handle.
The manager leveled successfully but ultimately it was the stations doom when he sent the miners across half the map.
I'm sinking millions into the miners - now I finally made the wharf and noone is buying. And I also hear they all need the cash in station present to be able to deliver which is outright silly. If I had that cash I wouldn't have bought miners in the first place, but I doubt the NPC can support the demands neither.

[Matthew94]

I'm sinking millions into the miners - now I finally made the wharf and noone is buying. And I also hear they all need the cash in station present to be able to deliver which is outright silly. If I had that cash I wouldn't have bought miners in the first place, but I doubt the NPC can support the demands neither.

I don't think the Terrans have bought a single ship from me since I built my wharf. The Terran economy is so self-sufficient that it only seems to exist for flooding their market with protein paste and MREs.

[chew-ie]

The Terran economy is so self-sufficient that it only seems to exist for flooding their market with protein paste and MREs.

Perfect copy of X³ - Egosoft fullfilled yet another community wish. Go Team!

[Raptor34]

I just put 30 M ships to mimic patrol command, they spread out around the sector and can solo KHA spawns. Didn't lose a miner in hours in 100% my sector with kha installation constantly respawning.
Don't see the problem.

I don't have 30 M ships.

Yeah this is the problem. When your starting out, your entire resources are devoted to getting those 2-3 miners bringing in income so you can expand. There is no way in hell you have to necessary resources to have 30 M ships providing cover for 3 or 4 miners. Hell even late game, in most sectors I don't even have 30 miners working, usually just 4-5 for faction gain or maybe 15 or so near my main production center.

What is needed is the ability for your patrols to actually "React" to distress calls and come flying from across the system to help out the ship in distress. That way depending on what your facing, 2-3 M ships might be able to cover the entire sector.

One things I will say is that even without a "Reaction" having a patrol in the sector does help. I managed to cap a couple SCA Destroyers and Corvettes and have the running patrol and the frequency of attacks is much less.

When you're starting out you really shouldn't be having problems with Khaak in the first place. Iirc they only really started getting out of hand when I flooded Segaris with hundreds of M miners and probably 20-30 Ls.
With that said I do agree we need a simpler, more automated policing system. Even if we have to tie it to an admin center or something. Isn't that kinda how the distress beacons for NPCs work? They call for help to the local Defense Stations.

[half0]

I thought you were going to talk about how the KHK aren't showing up anymore. I'm about 200 hours into my save and I see a ship once every 20 hours or so. Never a cluster either. Perhaps I all but wiped them out and just didn't realize it.

But yea mining is bugged. Completely ground my economy to a halt along with the nerfed shipyards

[Cdaragorn]

Exactly what is broken about mining? I admit I'm still in early game but with 4 miners going I've had no problems at all getting a steady income from them.
I will say that I had to do more legwork to find good places for them to mine but I honestly view that as a positive change. I had to actually use resource probes which I've never had much use for before. Why is that a bad thing though? Is there something I'm missing here?

[half0]

I will say that I had to do more legwork to find good places for them to mine but I honestly view that as a positive change. I had to actually use resource probes which I've never had much use for before. Why is that a bad thing though? Is there something I'm missing here?

There are several threads discussing the issues regarding miners right now. Biggest I see at the moment is that they will travel clear across the galaxy to mine low yield resources. For instance the miner and station is in a sector with a resource probe showing an ore yield of 10 will jump through 8 gates to mine ore with a yield of .3 . There are also bugs such as all miners of a station just ignoring one particular resource.

[zxmagus]

Exactly what is broken about mining? I admit I'm still in early game but with 4 miners going I've had no problems at all getting a steady income from them.
I will say that I had to do more legwork to find good places for them to mine but I honestly view that as a positive change. I had to actually use resource probes which I've never had much use for before. Why is that a bad thing though? Is there something I'm missing here?

Due to mining changes and bad station AI all of your station miners start dog piling into one system the increase mining causes khaak hives to spawn ,nowhere is it mentioned in game this will happen or how to deal with it you need to look it up on the internet. Khaak hives are spawned in the boundaries of systems up to 3 jumps away and there is no indication or hint where they are, you have to find them and space is you know BIG. These khaak hives teleport fighters ontop of your miners and there is currently no automated way to have patrol fleets engage these teleporting ships so they have to be manually delt with. Over time more and more of these hives can spawn to the point where i am at now where khaak fighter bombs spawn at slightly over 2 minuet intervals in multiple systems.

[spankahontis]

I just put 30 M ships to mimic patrol command, they spread out around the sector and can solo KHA spawns. Didn't lose a miner in hours in 100% my sector with kha installation constantly respawning.
Don't see the problem.

How do you Mimic mining orders?

I tried that myself with a bunch of Medium miners and they just sit there doing nothing. I had a Miner as Squad Leader, gave it the 'Repeat Order' told it to mine Ore and deliver it to my Storage Facility, it does it's Task but the other ships who are in 'mimic commander' group do nothing.

No idea what i'm doing wrong and i've got 50+ Miners on my Property List so it's starting to clog up my list. Be good to make some squads and lessen the list a bit.

[Midnitewolf]

I don't have 30 M ships.

Yeah this is the problem. When your starting out, your entire resources are devoted to getting those 2-3 miners bringing in income so you can expand. There is no way in hell you have to necessary resources to have 30 M ships providing cover for 3 or 4 miners. Hell even late game, in most sectors I don't even have 30 miners working, usually just 4-5 for faction gain or maybe 15 or so near my main production center.

What is needed is the ability for your patrols to actually "React" to distress calls and come flying from across the system to help out the ship in distress. That way depending on what your facing, 2-3 M ships might be able to cover the entire sector.

One things I will say is that even without a "Reaction" having a patrol in the sector does help. I managed to cap a couple SCA Destroyers and Corvettes and have the running patrol and the frequency of attacks is much less.

30 miners is ludicrous. In past playthroughs 4 L Miners were like super-high investment. Now they're like M miners - peanuts employed en masse. I have 3 comutronics, 3 lattice and 3 SiC productions. I'm pretty sure the amount of miners I now employ have never been so many in any former playthrough. And I had more factories then too.
Yes, the Terran economy is different - I get it, but the 10 L miners aren't still enough to feed the materials. The gas seemed to work fine but I added one of the big eaters last and my Hydrogen really got out of hand. Bolo gas seemed to be able to handle.
The manager leveled successfully but ultimately it was the stations doom when he sent the miners across half the map.
I'm sinking millions into the miners - now I finally made the wharf and noone is buying. And I also hear they all need the cash in station present to be able to deliver which is outright silly. If I had that cash I wouldn't have bought miners in the first place, but I doubt the NPC can support the demands neither.

Wharfs are all about supply and demand. I have my Wharf way down in Neo's Fortune and my best and nearly only customer is ZYA. I went with Split for my first ships because quite frankly in my playthrough their economy is completely bugged. They can't build anything because they are missing hull or engine part or something basic like that AND they literally have both Hull Part and Engine Part factories IN THE SAME SYSTEM WITH HUGE STOCKPILES OF THE STUFF. They just aren't distributing it to the Wharfs and Shipyards. Well needless to say ZYA was getting torn apart by everyone and had lost 3 sectors by the time I got my Wharf online and were in dire need of ships. Now I can't produce ships for them fast enough and I think I am supplying 90% of there ships. I literally have at least 1 Rattlesnake coming off my line every 15 minutes and usually a couple their L Miners or haulers in between and my Wharf never stops producing fighters and mostly Dragons. With all this they finally managed to stabilize and win back their lost sectors but even though I have recently opened up the line to ARG and ANT ship production, at least 90% of the ships sold from my docks are Split going to ZYA and with no pauses in production. Oh and I recently opened up a second Wharf and at least 70% of that production is still ZYA on top of what my main yards already produce.

So if your ships aren't selling, you just have the wrong customers. If your customers are TER or PIO, well your double Whammied. As far as I know, unless something you do triggers something in the storyline, neither TER or PIO are at war with ANYONE hence are never going to need many new ships if at all. The double whammy part is if your Wharf is set up only to produce Terran ships, you can't even transition to a new customer without retooling your production line though I guess that depends on which type of building you selected in the option. I believe the "Universal" setting still makes heavy use of non-Terran materials in the build process but if you are on Terran only, your screwed because you are unable to find another customer. Actually now that I think of it, if your Wharf is located in the new TER or PIO territories, your triple Whammied because it is very hard to siphon non-Terran parts into your area since nothing you need is produced internally.

So in a nutshell if you built in the Terran areas and trying to build Terran ships for profit purposes your screwed. You would be better off scrapping the current Wharf and going to rebuild it up in non-Terran space. Maybe claim Getsu Fune or Frontiers Edge or just build the Wharf in The Void using non-Terran resources. Then probably sell ANT and/or ARG ships.

[Rastuasi]

it's killing my enjoyment of the game.

That's YOUR game, but I personally enjoy the added life and am glad my miners actually need a defense fleet with them, which patrol does work, your setup must be done wrong. Point is, don't go demanding change just cause you do not want to adapt to a better game. Not everyone wants your change.

[spankahontis]

Wharfs are all about supply and demand. I have my Wharf way down in Neo's Fortune and my best and nearly only customer is ZYA. I went with Split for my first ships because quite frankly in my playthrough their economy is completely bugged. They can't build anything because they are missing hull or engine part or something basic like that AND they literally have both Hull Part and Engine Part factories IN THE SAME SYSTEM WITH HUGE STOCKPILES OF THE STUFF.

Odd, because in my playthrough, Zyarth were slow to begin with, losing ground to the Xenon and now they have regained their lost territory and expanded into Rhys Defiance and Tharka's Cascade and they are looking to be heading towards the neighbouring Matrix Sector, they're steamrolling at the moment and the Paranid are starting to attack the Shipyard at Emperor's Mines so what was once the Xenon's best shot at steamrolling has now seen them falling apart at the seams.

Only contribution i've made is Zyarths economy is their Mining Sector and it's bloody hard to supply Ore and Silicon around there, regions are scarce, have to travel to Family Kritt. Setting up a Storage Facility to transport raw resources to Zyarth's Dominion, not that they need it now, they're obliterating the Xenon on 2 Fronts and now they have numerous stations in Hatikvah's Choice I, so the Argon have a fight on their Hands.

[Tempest]

i've hunted down clusters about 4 times now, and it is starting to feel like an hourly quest, at first it was honestly decent fun being hands on again and dealing with them for a while, but feels kinda pointless if new clusters just rematerialize after an x-amount of hours. (i'm sure the miners were impressed though: "oh look, the CEO got off his lazy bum to come and help us lowly mining-folk...)

ignore & upgrade to L seems the only long-term viable alternative.

[paraskous]

Yeah this is the problem. When your starting out, your entire resources are devoted to getting those 2-3 miners bringing in income so you can expand. There is no way in hell you have to necessary resources to have 30 M ships providing cover for 3 or 4 miners. Hell even late game, in most sectors I don't even have 30 miners working, usually just 4-5 for faction gain or maybe 15 or so near my main production center.

What is needed is the ability for your patrols to actually "React" to distress calls and come flying from across the system to help out the ship in distress. That way depending on what your facing, 2-3 M ships might be able to cover the entire sector.

One things I will say is that even without a "Reaction" having a patrol in the sector does help. I managed to cap a couple SCA Destroyers and Corvettes and have the running patrol and the frequency of attacks is much less.

30 miners is ludicrous. In past playthroughs 4 L Miners were like super-high investment. Now they're like M miners - peanuts employed en masse. I have 3 comutronics, 3 lattice and 3 SiC productions. I'm pretty sure the amount of miners I now employ have never been so many in any former playthrough. And I had more factories then too.
Yes, the Terran economy is different - I get it, but the 10 L miners aren't still enough to feed the materials. The gas seemed to work fine but I added one of the big eaters last and my Hydrogen really got out of hand. Bolo gas seemed to be able to handle.
The manager leveled successfully but ultimately it was the stations doom when he sent the miners across half the map.
I'm sinking millions into the miners - now I finally made the wharf and noone is buying. And I also hear they all need the cash in station present to be able to deliver which is outright silly. If I had that cash I wouldn't have bought miners in the first place, but I doubt the NPC can support the demands neither.

Wharfs are all about supply and demand. I have my Wharf way down in Neo's Fortune and my best and nearly only customer is ZYA. I went with Split for my first ships because quite frankly in my playthrough their economy is completely bugged. They can't build anything because they are missing hull or engine part or something basic like that AND they literally have both Hull Part and Engine Part factories IN THE SAME SYSTEM WITH HUGE STOCKPILES OF THE STUFF. They just aren't distributing it to the Wharfs and Shipyards. Well needless to say ZYA was getting torn apart by everyone and had lost 3 sectors by the time I got my Wharf online and were in dire need of ships. Now I can't produce ships for them fast enough and I think I am supplying 90% of there ships. I literally have at least 1 Rattlesnake coming off my line every 15 minutes and usually a couple their L Miners or haulers in between and my Wharf never stops producing fighters and mostly Dragons. With all this they finally managed to stabilize and win back their lost sectors but even though I have recently opened up the line to ARG and ANT ship production, at least 90% of the ships sold from my docks are Split going to ZYA and with no pauses in production. Oh and I recently opened up a second Wharf and at least 70% of that production is still ZYA on top of what my main yards already produce.

So if your ships aren't selling, you just have the wrong customers. If your customers are TER or PIO, well your double Whammied. As far as I know, unless something you do triggers something in the storyline, neither TER or PIO are at war with ANYONE hence are never going to need many new ships if at all. The double whammy part is if your Wharf is set up only to produce Terran ships, you can't even transition to a new customer without retooling your production line though I guess that depends on which type of building you selected in the option. I believe the "Universal" setting still makes heavy use of non-Terran materials in the build process but if you are on Terran only, your screwed because you are unable to find another customer. Actually now that I think of it, if your Wharf is located in the new TER or PIO territories, your triple Whammied because it is very hard to siphon non-Terran parts into your area since nothing you need is produced internally.

So in a nutshell if you built in the Terran areas and trying to build Terran ships for profit purposes your screwed. You would be better off scrapping the current Wharf and going to rebuild it up in non-Terran space. Maybe claim Getsu Fune or Frontiers Edge or just build the Wharf in The Void using non-Terran resources. Then probably sell ANT and/or ARG ships.

Yep, pretty much - I was planning to choose the confrontative outcome on a plot. Now the whole wharf thing froze my economy. Wharf don't pull
orders and the Terran economy is pretty saturated for my ingredient production. Adv. Electronics complex is just ramping up. I need the cash I sunk into the investment. So I turned to cheese and produce ships then sell them to faction wharfs for some fiat cash - otherwise this would be pretty toast - my first wharf experience.

[paraskous]

I just put 30 M ships to mimic patrol command, they spread out around the sector and can solo KHA spawns. Didn't lose a miner in hours in 100% my sector with kha installation constantly respawning.
Don't see the problem.

How do you Mimic mining orders?

I tried that myself with a bunch of Medium miners and they just sit there doing nothing. I had a Miner as Squad Leader, gave it the 'Repeat Order' told it to mine Ore and deliver it to my Storage Facility, it does it's Task but the other ships who are in 'mimic commander' group do nothing.

No idea what i'm doing wrong and i've got 50+ Miners on my Property List so it's starting to clog up my list. Be good to make some squads and lessen the list a bit.

You pick a miner as lead, set him to automine sector and select ressource to mine. Next you select miner of same class and assign to lead with mimic command. Done. M and L seem to not mix. I haven't tried miners mimicking gas leads or vice versa - that seemed silly to me.

[grapedog]

i've hunted down clusters about 4 times now, and it is starting to feel like an hourly quest, at first it was honestly decent fun being hands on again and dealing with them for a while, but feels kinda pointless if new clusters just rematerialize after an x-amount of hours. (i'm sure the miners were impressed though: "oh look, the CEO got off his lazy bum to come and help us lowly mining-folk...)

ignore & upgrade to L seems the only long-term viable alternative.

Well it can't be hourly, because its like 3 in game days before a big hive can respawn, and like 1 or 2 in game days before an outpost can respawn.

[spankahontis]

I just put 30 M ships to mimic patrol command, they spread out around the sector and can solo KHA spawns. Didn't lose a miner in hours in 100% my sector with kha installation constantly respawning.
Don't see the problem.

How do you Mimic mining orders?

I tried that myself with a bunch of Medium miners and they just sit there doing nothing. I had a Miner as Squad Leader, gave it the 'Repeat Order' told it to mine Ore and deliver it to my Storage Facility, it does it's Task but the other ships who are in 'mimic commander' group do nothing.

No idea what i'm doing wrong and i've got 50+ Miners on my Property List so it's starting to clog up my list. Be good to make some squads and lessen the list a bit.

You pick a miner as lead, set him to automine sector and select ressource to mine. Next you select miner of same class and assign to lead with mimic command. Done. M and L seem to not mix. I haven't tried miners mimicking gas leads or vice versa - that seemed silly to me.

So Repeat Order doesn't work? I'll try just automine.
Shame really as I could do with fleets of logistical deliverers moving Helium and Methane to Nopilious Fortune right about now.
Guess it could be considered cheating? But then again you can do it with single ships anyway, so might as well put them in a mimic squad formation, saves me space on properties.

[paraskous]

How do you Mimic mining orders?

I tried that myself with a bunch of Medium miners and they just sit there doing nothing. I had a Miner as Squad Leader, gave it the 'Repeat Order' told it to mine Ore and deliver it to my Storage Facility, it does it's Task but the other ships who are in 'mimic commander' group do nothing.

No idea what i'm doing wrong and i've got 50+ Miners on my Property List so it's starting to clog up my list. Be good to make some squads and lessen the list a bit.

You pick a miner as lead, set him to automine sector and select ressource to mine. Next you select miner of same class and assign to lead with mimic command. Done. M and L seem to not mix. I haven't tried miners mimicking gas leads or vice versa - that seemed silly to me.

So Repeat Order doesn't work? I'll try just automine.
Shame really as I could do with fleets of logistical deliverers moving Helium and Methane to Nopilious Fortune right about now.
Guess it could be considered cheating? But then again you can do it with single ships anyway, so might as well put them in a mimic squad formation, saves me space on properties.

Ye, repeat orders is for when you do identical shippings. Cant have that with mining.

[BlackRain]

i've hunted down clusters about 4 times now, and it is starting to feel like an hourly quest, at first it was honestly decent fun being hands on again and dealing with them for a while, but feels kinda pointless if new clusters just rematerialize after an x-amount of hours. (i'm sure the miners were impressed though: "oh look, the CEO got off his lazy bum to come and help us lowly mining-folk...)

ignore & upgrade to L seems the only long-term viable alternative.

Well it can't be hourly, because its like 3 in game days before a big hive can respawn, and like 1 or 2 in game days before an outpost can respawn.

This is not true. I tested by destroying all of the Khaak bases/swarms or whatever everywhere in the game and they spawned again very quickly. The attacks didn't pick up immediately, but they eventually did. It does not take 1 or 2 in game days.