"THis ship no longer offered for sale to third parties"

[Raevyan]

Found a thread in the Steam X4 Forums.

There is a thread with the same topic where a dev gives an answer/hint:

(Quote)
"If you were Terran High command would you give access to one of your mightiest Ships to the first Cadet that asks for it?
There is a reason why there is a Lock next to it... guess all you need is to find the Key to unlock it... hmm.. could it be a reward i wonder?"

Well... thats what i guessed in the end: it seems to be locked by the story - so coming to a certain point in the plot will, as far as i understand, unlock these ships for buying.

cheers

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And it has to be the choice were you send Terran Fleet to yaki HQ to get rid of it...

[soladept]

Found a thread in the Steam X4 Forums.

There is a thread with the same topic where a dev gives an answer/hint:

(Quote)
"If you were Terran High command would you give access to one of your mightiest Ships to the first Cadet that asks for it?
There is a reason why there is a Lock next to it... guess all you need is to find the Key to unlock it... hmm.. could it be a reward i wonder?"

Well... thats what i guessed in the end: it seems to be locked by the story - so coming to a certain point in the plot will, as far as i understand, unlock these ships for buying.

cheers

Spoiler

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And it has to be the choice were you send Terran Fleet to yaki HQ to get rid of it...

can you confirm that? because someone else i asked said there was no extra reward for doing that plot step.

[Raevyan]

No can’t confirm but this mission is the only one I haven’t completed. And if dev says it‘ll be unlocked as a reward than it must be it.

[Prosik]

Perhaps its a faction unlock like teleporting to a station belonging to a faction with 28 or higher.

[jlehtone]

Boarding, perhaps. Although i recon Terrans would hate that... like a lot.

Oh dear,

I have tried to avoid most threads that potentially disclose information.

I have continued to play as Untested Explorer and haven't been sure how to treat the Terrans. They spoke to me. No other faction has done so. Bad for them. Something about "Restricted space". I went sightseeing anyway. If they say that they will shoot, then they should.

Anyway, Protectorate's reputation is -15, not very angry.

Then I saw an "Intervention Force" to sail to Tharka. I was mildly curious. The fleet did push the Xenon, but after a while it had only one ship left. Thick ship, some 80 crew, one or two star captain. Thick enough to still hurt the Xenon.

Still unsure about how to think about Terrans, I went to watch high attention. Went to scan the ship. Scanning was only a partial success. Could not read loadout.

Unacceptable.

A lone Protectorate's Asgard near Xenon Defense Platform and not far from Xenon Wharf. Asgard, Xenon, and one red Dragon Raider -- yours truly.

I'm the shepherd. The Xenon are my herd. This wolf had no place here. Time for intervention.

Since I had not seen spoilers, I had no clue how hard it can be. Took out the engine. Took out the turrets. Xenon did serve as distraction for a while. By the time the beast was toothless, I had 96 Marines on site. 7 Elite, 89 Veterans. About 5200 points. Asgard crew were about 1500 points. No Elites.

I went with "Very Strong Hull" stage. Had no desire to chew the shields. It took about 1.5 hours from initial scan to boarding complete. 96 Marines went in. 84 survived. 9 of them are Elite. Trading 12 Marines to 1 Asgard is fair trade?

While the crew was still cutting though the hull, a Xenon K did appear and approach. Dashed to it to kill its engines before it got in range of Asgard. Killed it too. With Dragon. Another K flew by. Took no chances and killed its engines. Third K flew by so clearly (to Gate) that I did let it go.

When the ship was mine it took two more hours before its engine was back online and it could fly out. Luckily the Xenon Wharf did send ships slowly to check on us.

Terran hate ... was just -2 in total. They now think that I'm a -17 person, i.e. still Mostly Harmless.


What a day! Saved the Xenon from the evil Protectorate (while killing many). Stole a ship under the noses of pesky Xenon. Learned that while I thought that I did start from the bottom my interactions with the Protectorate, the ship I confiscated is not exactly "bottom of the barrel". Or is it?

[Matthew94]

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the intervention war missions you get for reporting the yaki as a threat and their base location could be potential Asgard unlock but its a slog waiting on the task force to get to savage spur so I havent been able to confirm yet.

I finished that quest and you don't get shit. There isn't even a congratulations message. The quest is just cleared from your logbook and you get an achievement.

[RoverTX]

With the Asgard I just assumed they are actually locked from being built directly because an NPC shipyard couldn't handle the ware requirements without some type of "NPC Cheat"

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Just looked up into the game files and nothing unlocks the blue print, the ability to build it, or gives you one from what I can tell. It looks like its the <secrecy level="3" /> node in the XML on the ship macro that stops it from being built from my minimal investigation.

[Vilmu]

With the Asgard I just assumed they are actually locked from being built directly because an NPC shipyard couldn't handle the ware requirements without some type of "NPC Cheat"

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Just looked up into the game files and nothing unlocks the blue print, the ability to build it, or gives you one from what I can tell. It looks like its the <secrecy level="3" /> node in the XML on the ship macro that stops it from being built from my minimal investigation.

If that is the case, why mislead people with "guess all you need is to find the Key to unlock it... hmm.. could it be a reward i wonder?"... I really hope there is a way to unlock them (I mean, they already gift you a Syn relatively early/easy.) that is not basically completing every plot in the game or something.

Have people tried to explore the terran zones? Maybe there are more Torus wrecks and they have something that unlocks them? Maybe it's there's something more in then #34 wreck after? Maybe it's series of or very specific Terran vs. Xenon guild mission that doesn't become available before X or Y is completed ? (already seen some that reward ships, but just the miners thou)

[soladept]

With the Asgard I just assumed they are actually locked from being built directly because an NPC shipyard couldn't handle the ware requirements without some type of "NPC Cheat"

Edit

Spoiler

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Just looked up into the game files and nothing unlocks the blue print, the ability to build it, or gives you one from what I can tell. It looks like its the <secrecy level="3" /> node in the XML on the ship macro that stops it from being built from my minimal investigation.

If that is the case, why mislead people with "guess all you need is to find the Key to unlock it... hmm.. could it be a reward i wonder?"... I really hope there is a way to unlock them (I mean, they already gift you a Syn relatively early/easy.) that is not basically completing every plot in the game or something.

Have people tried to explore the terran zones? Maybe there are more Torus wrecks and they have something that unlocks them? Maybe it's there's something more in then #34 wreck after? Maybe it's series of or very specific Terran vs. Xenon guild mission that doesn't become available before X or Y is completed ? (already seen some that reward ships, but just the miners thou)

I sitll havent heard of anything turning up myself and i try to keep my ear to the ground in Reddit, steam, and here for asgard talk.

I was ruminating more and another bad piece of the logic is, forcing a player to buy a blueprint and build it in their own shipyard kind of sucks if your the type of player that doesnt have interest in having a player shipyard for whatever reason.... and every other ship in the game is pretty much buyable except Minotaur Raiders


and the Syn being locked kinda boggles me as the same time

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You get one because it was about to be decomissioned as a reward in the fate of the yaki plot, if its that obsolete then why do Terrans keep building and using them? I can only guess that the Ship itself was old somehow.... yet you can claim it through a signal leak and it comes fully outfitted with no missing hull....the only real detriment that its fitted with bolt turrets that i would rather have TER Pulse or Beams on.

Plus you can buy Osakas which is more of a role doctrine shift compared to the Syn rather than power difference.

and aside from the dev on the Steam thread.... theres been very little commentary by the devs unless they did it through a stream, i havent watched any of those.

[Tempest]

hmmm, 2 pages..

do people even read flavor text for ships? if you did then the reason it being "not for sale" would be fairly obvious.

[soladept]

hmmm, 2 pages..

do people even read flavor text for ships? if you did then the reason it being "not for sale" would be fairly obvious.

Did you even read my posts? it would be obvious banned ships would also have their blueprints banned logicly and I made a detailed post on that already. One of the two banned ships is even in a plot reward, which flouts the logic of the Terrans not trusting you with the ships since they dont unlock you building more... after giving one to you after performing acts of service. I have already also pointed out that there doesnt seem to be any plot or mission that unlocks them period from Terran Shopyards, while still allowing you to buy the Bluprints to build your own.... which does not make any logical sense from a Factional logic in how the Terrans are in lore, or any faction period, they would in reality be consistant in their paranoia.

Your post is not helpful, does not contribute, and insults the people that have posted their thoughts and opinions here. you seem insinute that the fact this topic has reached two pages is bad and that the people that have postd and discussed this here are negative in some fashion for doing so. along with an insult of calling them ignorant or lazy. At least thats my interpitation.

[Tempest]

let me be helpful and post it for you then:

The Asgard-class battleship was designed by the ATF to be a moving fortress, capable of taking on even the most monumental Xenon strongholds and capital ships. It is very slow, but also very powerful, and is especially noteworthy because of its unique forward-facing XL Main Battery. This weapon makes use of some unique technology that was specifically designed for the ATF, and is no longer available elsewhere. In terms of raw single-shot damage, it is currently the most powerful gun in the known universe.nnThis was the last ship class designed and produced by the ATF before the organisation was dissolved and its resources absorbed by the Terran Protectorate. Despite the change in administration, the Asgard is still frequently used by the Terran Protectorate because its sheer firepower has yet to be surpassed.

- it is not banned. it is obsolete
- blueprints still exist and are sold at +20 TER reputation

but feel free to discuss wether or not this a good thing or not, and let me get out of your way.


hint: i've built a grand total of 3 Asgard, and they are an absolute pain to gather materials for, so much so i wouldn't even consider building one outside of Terran space in hindsight/

[soladept]

let me be helpful and post it for you then:

The Asgard-class battleship was designed by the ATF to be a moving fortress, capable of taking on even the most monumental Xenon strongholds and capital ships. It is very slow, but also very powerful, and is especially noteworthy because of its unique forward-facing XL Main Battery. This weapon makes use of some unique technology that was specifically designed for the ATF, and is no longer available elsewhere. In terms of raw single-shot damage, it is currently the most powerful gun in the known universe.nnThis was the last ship class designed and produced by the ATF before the organisation was dissolved and its resources absorbed by the Terran Protectorate. Despite the change in administration, the Asgard is still frequently used by the Terran Protectorate because its sheer firepower has yet to be surpassed.

- it is not banned. it is obsolete
- blueprints still exist and are sold at +20 TER reputation

but feel free to discuss wether or not this a good thing or not, and let me get out of your way.


hint: i've built a grand total of 3 Asgard, and they are an absolute pain to gather materials for, so much so i wouldn't even consider building one outside of Terran space in hindsight/

I dont know why you tried to argue that while contridicting yourself.... the Asgard is hardly obsolete, even if its design is dated the entry itself states that its still superior...... and the Syn is functionaly the same as an older but stil powerful design... and the Terran navy builds new ones all the time ingame

If obsolsense was a reason to not sell to players .... well thats dumb considoring the Asgard is something that half the X4 players bought CoH for.... and it seems to function amazingly for an old beer can.

plus some other races ships have entrys referencing dated designs.. or are, and we can still buy them. that Encyclopedia entry seems more like a nod to X3 TC fans that liked the ATF designs.

All my posts in this thread on this topic have been critiqung with my opinions in how the current impmentation of this and the aparrant logic is inconsistant or does not make sense. so far I havent found a good argument made in any discussions i have participated in to refute my thinking, outside of "devs made it this way because they wanted to" which doesnt adress how it fits in the game mechanics or lore with any consistancy.

[Tempest]

like everyone, you are free to express your opinions, please don't feel offended or personally attacked if someone deconstructs some bits and pieces of your opinion.

as for my observation, the very second i read both those encyclopedia entries, i thought: #@!$ i'm gonna have to build them myself.. but it made some sense, to me, atleast.

since we are expressing opinions; i think the very idea of selling blueprints of military assets is ridiculous in itself, why would any nation/faction/race sell any military secrets to anyone.

i suppose there is only one party that can explain why things are the way they are.

i also think an Asgard is way too overpowered in the hands of a player. it is nigh untouchable, provided the captain isn't asleep at the wheel.

[soladept]

like everyone, you are free to express your opinions, please don't feel offended or personally attacked if someone deconstructs some bits and pieces of your opinion.

as for my observation, the very second i read both those encyclopedia entries, i thought: #@!$ i'm gonna have to build them myself.. but it made some sense, to me, atleast.

since we are expressing opinions; i think the very idea of selling blueprints of military assets is ridiculous in itself, why would any nation/faction/race sell any military secrets to anyone.

i suppose there is only one party that can explain why things are the way they are.

i also think an Asgard is way too overpowered in the hands of a player. it is nigh untouchable, provided the captain isn't asleep at the wheel.

I havent been offended about you bringing up up the obsolescence argument in your second post, your inital post seemed a bit rude to me.

and indeed, selling blueprints seems quite silly in terms of secrets, but most of the miltiary ones cant be bought until you get 20+ rep, which is usualy when a faction starts trusting you with everything they have except station teleportation... thats hidden unlock in the high 20s somewhere i think. and a faction selling blueprints when a faction considors you as a hero thats practiacaly part of them does make some sense, most factions are willign to sell you their top military ships and blueprints at 20+ rep. but with the Terrans you cant order Asgards and Syns in their yards but you can still get the blueprints, and if they dont want to sell those two ships to third partys (but they are still willing to sell Osakas... lol) but the blueprints? if you read my earlier posts I hace spoken about this quite a bit already, and i think consistantcy would make more sense, if theres more hoops needed to be jumped through for the two ATF ships then they should apply to both methods of aquisition in my opinion, and idealy unlocked through supporting the Terrans loyaly through plot events.

Idealy aligning with a faction with high reputation for some rewards should gate a few things behing a more permanent commitment, which includes consequences like gaining the factions enemys... you got to 20 reputation with the Terrans and became a Hero of Humanity? then to get their good stuff you have to align with them and get your reputation modifed by their diplomatic standings, now everyone dislikes you a bit, and if the Terrans get into a shooting war then you get those enemys too. this would work for all factions... you build rep with Zyarth and then commit to allying them you end up hostile with the Argon.... Align with Hop you get their enemys, Align with Teladi then Poverty is your enemy >.> no more of the being allies to every faction but the Xenon and being a war profiteer to everyone, just some of them. if you dont want to fully ally a faction you can still enjoy some Reputation benifets like trade discounts and some of the blueprints and Ships, you just wouldnt be able to get the good military stuff and some other perks.

And after Split Vendetta the only problem with OP ships is that many basegame ships were made medicore to begin with, especialy L and XL combat ships, there were many complaints in various discussion forums about the ships on launch and since, and the devs have been unwilling to adjust due to not wanting to break players saves....

and yet we had the mining update done while they refused to adjust Sunlight in Basegame and Split sectors in the same patch. I am having trouble expecting consistancy in mechanical development from the Egosoft Devs right now, it feels like they will move all over the place based on whim.

[Tempest]

your inital post seemed a bit rude to me.

it wasn't meant to be, it was sincere surprise at finding 2 pages worth of speculation on how to "unlock" something.

although a completely moot point, if i had to somehow "loresplain" this, the Asgard, and to a lesser degree Syn projects Terran absolute power onto the battlefield. (i would have sided with Redwyrm's initial reckoning of blueprints not being available either)

as for the offtopic points:

i for one am grateful my savegame is still intact, i've accepted that at some point i will probably have to start a new game eventually, but i continue to hope Egosoft manages to work around the save-breaking issues and "make everyone happy", i'm just fortunate enough to be on the other side of the fence, (this time) and hence biased.

did not have a chance to really investigate any mining issues, my usual solution to issues is to throw a load of ships at it, and hope it resolves itself. i have several mining-complexes still in the process of being "topped off", and factories are still spitting out end-products.

concerning ship mediocrity i would have to agree, yeah. destroyers & carriers have felt fragile ever since ver. 1.0. , M and S sized craft are waste of resources in ANY fleet (i have a strong dislike for mods though, so stuck with it. often discused mods like VRO etc.)

[LameFox]

As I understand it these are also pretty resource intensive ships, so from a lore perspective maybe that's where they draw the line at letting you occupy their production lines. Although that also has a real in game opportunity cost, because the faction doesn't need your money but does need its production resources and shipyards, so maybe it's where the devs draw the line at letting you occupy the production lines lol

[soladept]

As I understand it these are also pretty resource intensive ships, so from a lore perspective maybe that's where they draw the line at letting you occupy their production lines. Although that also has a real in game opportunity cost, because the faction doesn't need your money but does need its production resources and shipyards, so maybe it's where the devs draw the line at letting you occupy the production lines lol

Sure, but the game doesnt tell you that the Terrans wont build you an Asgard due to it being resource intensive, and that reason doesnt apply to the Syn because you can still order Osakas. and if a resource shortage would be an issue i would be funneling my stations and traders into the TER shipyard to get it built, depending on the Split economy you have to do that to get a Raptor built almost all the time because the hull parts in stock keep getting sniped by L traders and miners queue jumping your order. and thats when I order my Raptors naked with the intent of outiftting them at an EQ dock.

the only thing the TER shipyard tells us is "not to Sale for Third Partys" the Encyclopedia entries for the Syn and Asgard do not say that they are that way or why, nowhere else in the game gives an explanation

this entire thread is pretty much speculation and crituque of the intent for this design. unless theres a bug and completing one of the new plots was supposed to unlock it and it doesnt work.

Personaly.... im frustrated, I dont want grind out billions of credits to get a shipbuilding industry going to get an Asgard, I want to be the Hero of Humanity, flying with my fellow Terrans to wipe out Xenon. and you dont have to go through such a hoop to go around flying a Raptor for the split, if OP ships are a considoration although you need more cash to get the fighter wings going, and perhaps enough stations to fix their shortages. Nevermind the sheer ease of getting a Rattlesnake. I mentioned before I would be fine with being able to earn Asgard and Syn access through plot rewards doing actions in favor of the Terrans, and previous X games have rewarded good ships or access to them through plot before, which is more sensible to me than forcing a player to get billions of credits of industry going for a shipyard, although admittidly a shipyard would be more convinent in the long run for making fleets later in the game.

[Tempest]

unless theres a bug and completing one of the new plots was supposed to unlock it and it doesnt work.

if this existed, i would speculate it would involve some pretty outrageous demands with great consequences, concerning some sort of retalliatory strike against the Argon and/or even removing the ANT presence from "border sectors" like Getsu-Fune.

more of a commitment to the Terran cause then just shooting 30 criminal mass traffic/repairing some satellites etc. would be nice.

[jlehtone]

Idealy aligning with a faction with high reputation for some rewards should gate a few things behing a more permanent commitment, which includes consequences like gaining the factions enemys... you got to 20 reputation with the Terrans and became a Hero of Humanity? then to get their good stuff you have to align with them and get your reputation modifed by their diplomatic standings, now everyone dislikes you a bit, and if the Terrans get into a shooting war then you get those enemys too. this would work for all factions... you build rep with Zyarth and then commit to allying them you end up hostile with the Argon.... Align with Hop you get their enemys, Align with Teladi then Poverty is your enemy >.> no more of the being allies to every faction but the Xenon and being a war profiteer to everyone, just some of them. if you dont want to fully ally a faction you can still enjoy some Reputation benifets like trade discounts and some of the blueprints and Ships, you just wouldnt be able to get the good military stuff and some other perks.

This would be logical. Alas, "friendly profiteer" is a very common career choice in X-Universe. Significant player-base, presumably. I want it all (and I want it now).

A common plot trope is that a high-ranking member goes rogue / defects / is a spy and retains control of assets. A truly paranoid faction would have fanatic politruk/inquisitor sitting on self-destruct button, should the crew attempt mutiny, heresy, or just insufficient commitment. That would make treason and/or boarding more challenging.


I want it all

Nothing is more infuriating than a ship that you can't have and fly. Apart from couple exceptions, that has been the rule in X-Universe.

How do you get a ship?

• Steal
• Earn (e.g. a plot reward that cannot be replicated)
• Buy
• Build

X3 had PHQ for building. Blueprints were mainly via research, so you had to steal or buy before you could build.
Valhalla in X3AP was so big that Commonwealth PHQ could not build it, only the Terran PHQ. The start you had chosen dictated whether you could build. (Hence, I did commandeer dozen Valhallas from Terrans during the War, before forcing peace and becoming Hero of Sol.)
X4 NPC yards have limits, so building can be much more feasible than buying (as blueprints come with credits).


Yes, the ways to get a ship can be inconsistent in more than one way. Even if they are consistent with the intent of design (whatever that is), the lore can be lacking.