4.00 Public Beta now available

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CBJ
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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by CBJ » Fri, 20. Nov 20, 00:53

No, sorry, it is not incorrect. Games like Minecraft are a completely different scenario. There you have a server that is shared between a group of people, where everyone using it agrees to use, and benefit from, a particular mod or set of mods. That is, of course, fine in that situation, but for games where everyone participates in the same shared experience, and where changes made on one person's client can potentially have a detrimental effect on someone else's experience, the requirement for an unmodified client is absolutely the norm.

Just to be clear, this is not just about people sending modified ships. I am not going to go into details, for various reasons, not least of which is that we're not ready to share our future plans for the venture feature yet, but suffice it to say that the requirement for an unmodified client is not going to be going away because it is an essential element in maintaining a level playing field for everyone who chooses to participate.

Throwing around emotive terms such as "isolating" and "hostile" isn't going to change anything. We put a lot of thought, time and effort into supporting the modding community, and we will continue to do so. We will also continue to look into whether there are cases where we can allow purely cosmetic mods that don't mark the client as modified, as we already did with music changes for example, but it's not always as easy as people think to differentiate between cosmetic mods and those which can affect gameplay in a way that could potentially impact on the way ventures are prepared for and initiated.

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hargn
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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by hargn » Fri, 20. Nov 20, 01:05

Wahou!!!
Is that an infinite log ?
But it really should show us the sell details to know how the station make profits.

https://i.imgur.com/EQLXNKZ.png?1

And another feedback on the coordinate attacks : the ships assigned to supply move to an advanced rally point. They better should hold back in order to not become targets as they are not fits to support a fight.
Rather, the leader stay back doing nothing, whereas it should go to fight with its wingmans.
Last edited by Terre on Fri, 20. Nov 20, 10:47, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Images posted directly to the forums should not be greater than 640x480 or 100kb, oversize image now linked

avilonrayne
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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by avilonrayne » Fri, 20. Nov 20, 01:55

CBJ wrote:
Fri, 20. Nov 20, 00:53
No, sorry, it is not incorrect. Games like Minecraft are a completely different scenario. There you have a server that is shared between a group of people, where everyone using it agrees to use, and benefit from, a particular mod or set of mods. That is, of course, fine in that situation, but for games where everyone participates in the same shared experience, and where changes made on one person's client can potentially have a detrimental effect on someone else's experience, the requirement for an unmodified client is absolutely the norm.

Just to be clear, this is not just about people sending modified ships. I am not going to go into details, for various reasons, not least of which is that we're not ready to share our future plans for the venture feature yet, but suffice it to say that the requirement for an unmodified client is not going to be going away because it is an essential element in maintaining a level playing field for everyone who chooses to participate.

Throwing around emotive terms such as "isolating" and "hostile" isn't going to change anything. We put a lot of thought, time and effort into supporting the modding community, and we will continue to do so. We will also continue to look into whether there are cases where we can allow purely cosmetic mods that don't mark the client as modified, as we already did with music changes for example, but it's not always as easy as people think to differentiate between cosmetic mods and those which can affect gameplay in a way that could potentially impact on the way ventures are prepared for and initiated.
Those details you're unwilling to share are probably the only thing that won't make me feel bad about the entire Venture system. Right now it just looks like there's no good reason for the restriction. I hope that changes soon. I only use these emotive terms because it's what I actually feel. There isn't another word to describe it. I certainly know that this is not Egosoft's intent, which is why I haven't said that Egosoft is actually being hostile. It just feels like it, and I'm frustrated with not knowing why. I've been frustrated with it since the day Ventures were released. It really felt like a slap in the face back then, and this new news feels the same. The best way to fix that is more communication about upcoming features and the reasons for changes.

The biggest reason I feel the way I do is because there are in-game items locked behind these features. There is no other way to get paint jobs legitimately. Would it be possible to add "offline" ventures at all? No interaction with these mysterious planned features, and your ship doesn't actually show up in anyone's game, but you can still get the rewards and have them linked to your account? That would fix everything, and it really doesn't seem like it would take much extra work to add that. Have modded games to use the offline mode, and give unmodded games the option to use it. Then everyone can get the rewards and nobody is left out. Something to consider, at least.

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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by dtpsprt » Fri, 20. Nov 20, 07:49

avilonrayne wrote:
Fri, 20. Nov 20, 01:55
Those details you're unwilling to share are probably the only thing that won't make me feel bad about the entire Venture system. Right now it just looks like there's no good reason for the restriction. I hope that changes soon. I only use these emotive terms because it's what I actually feel. There isn't another word to describe it. I certainly know that this is not Egosoft's intent, which is why I haven't said that Egosoft is actually being hostile. It just feels like it, and I'm frustrated with not knowing why. I've been frustrated with it since the day Ventures were released. It really felt like a slap in the face back then, and this new news feels the same. The best way to fix that is more communication about upcoming features and the reasons for changes.

The biggest reason I feel the way I do is because there are in-game items locked behind these features. There is no other way to get paint jobs legitimately. Would it be possible to add "offline" ventures at all? No interaction with these mysterious planned features, and your ship doesn't actually show up in anyone's game, but you can still get the rewards and have them linked to your account? That would fix everything, and it really doesn't seem like it would take much extra work to add that. Have modded games to use the offline mode, and give unmodded games the option to use it. Then everyone can get the rewards and nobody is left out. Something to consider, at least.
+1 for that although, truth me told, there are mods that give the player access to the "locked" items (way most important than paintjobs are the pink modification parts), the problem with them (like the ones that emulate the jump drive) is that they end up being "too much" (IMHO)... but this is a discussion between the modders and the mod users...

Rei Ayanami
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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by Rei Ayanami » Fri, 20. Nov 20, 12:08

avilonrayne wrote:
Fri, 20. Nov 20, 01:55
The biggest reason I feel the way I do is because there are in-game items locked behind these features. There is no other way to get paint jobs legitimately. Would it be possible to add "offline" ventures at all?
I think there is a mod for offline ventures.
viewtopic.php?t=411604
However, i haven't use it, so I can't promise you that it works with the current or future versions.

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grapedog
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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by grapedog » Fri, 20. Nov 20, 13:08

Beinf unable to play I am curious about many of the changes. Has anyone played with the new workforce receuitment and larger stations? How does that work now? Is there essentially a aoft cap on station size now because of recruitment speed?
Maybe we've got 'em demoralised!
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xant
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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by xant » Fri, 20. Nov 20, 16:58

grapedog wrote:
Fri, 20. Nov 20, 13:08
Beinf unable to play I am curious about many of the changes. Has anyone played with the new workforce receuitment and larger stations? How does that work now? Is there essentially a aoft cap on station size now because of recruitment speed?
I didn't test this feature yet, but from what I could see all sectors have a population count now. The pop size on a planet gives a bonus to workforce growth in the sector, ranging from 0% (in systems without planet population) to 1000% (in systems with 1000M pops and more). Argon Prime is somewhere around 730%, to give you an example.

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chew-ie
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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by chew-ie » Fri, 20. Nov 20, 17:02

xant wrote:
Fri, 20. Nov 20, 16:58
grapedog wrote:
Fri, 20. Nov 20, 13:08
Beinf unable to play I am curious about many of the changes. Has anyone played with the new workforce receuitment and larger stations? How does that work now? Is there essentially a aoft cap on station size now because of recruitment speed?
I didn't test this feature yet, but from what I could see all sectors have a population count now. The pop size on a planet gives a bonus to workforce growth in the sector, ranging from 0% (in systems without planet population) to 1000% (in systems with 1000M pops and more). Argon Prime is somewhere around 730%, to give you an example.
Awesome! I usually don't pay attention to workforce (just slapping the occasional L habitat to a Wharf for obvious / roleplaying reasons) as I don't need the extra efficiency - but it's nice to get more things involved here. Almost feels like the universe comes [even more] to live. :)

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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by grapedog » Fri, 20. Nov 20, 18:52

xant wrote:
Fri, 20. Nov 20, 16:58
grapedog wrote:
Fri, 20. Nov 20, 13:08
Beinf unable to play I am curious about many of the changes. Has anyone played with the new workforce receuitment and larger stations? How does that work now? Is there essentially a aoft cap on station size now because of recruitment speed?
I didn't test this feature yet, but from what I could see all sectors have a population count now. The pop size on a planet gives a bonus to workforce growth in the sector, ranging from 0% (in systems without planet population) to 1000% (in systems with 1000M pops and more). Argon Prime is somewhere around 730%, to give you an example.
Thanks for the info. I wonder if/how they will balance raw resources, population, and sunlight. Are populations like a sector with resources where the same sectors always have the same resources, will planets always have the same population numbers?

If you take over another factions sector, like taking over argon prime, would they be pissed and have lower recruitment numbers.

I can only imagine that sunlight will become a factor eventually, since they've had more than one update that has dealt with sunlight concentration in a sector.
Maybe we've got 'em demoralised!
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california3201
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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by california3201 » Sun, 22. Nov 20, 06:55

I don't see beta 4.0 in the drop down tab.I backed up my saved games, I verified my file integrity, I clicked on the beta Tab, in the drop down list there is no beta 4.0 only 3.0 hotfix. Also, I have no mods.

Skeeter
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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by Skeeter » Sun, 22. Nov 20, 07:05

restart steam maybe?
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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by dtpsprt » Sun, 22. Nov 20, 08:25

california3201 wrote:
Sun, 22. Nov 20, 06:55
I don't see beta 4.0 in the drop down tab.I backed up my saved games, I verified my file integrity, I clicked on the beta Tab, in the drop down list there is no beta 4.0 only 3.0 hotfix. Also, I have no mods.
You have to give the "password" again if you had opted out of the Betas at some point, if I remember correctly

Tilen
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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by Tilen » Tue, 24. Nov 20, 16:49

For what it's worth, I am thrilled to see the upcoming changes and improvements.

I am also 100% behind CBJ's arguments about modding.

Egosoft rocks and Mr. Bernd is a God.

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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by Alan Phipps » Tue, 24. Nov 20, 18:06

@ Tilen: Your Egosoft cheque is in the post, perhaps (or not). :D
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Gregory
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Re: 4.00 Public Beta now available

Post by Gregory » Tue, 24. Nov 20, 20:04

We've just released an update to our current 4.00 beta. Among other things we've fixed Kha'ak station modules not being destructible. Find out more over at viewtopic.php?f=192&t=405397

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