Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x + 12900k + now 5800x3D!!

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Imperial Good
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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by Imperial Good » Thu, 28. Jan 21, 03:02

MSterling wrote:
Wed, 27. Jan 21, 03:55
Sony did that even more aggressively for their AMD-based CPU, hence its technical superiority for FLOP per FLOP against PC and XBox builds.
If referring to the PS4/Xbox One then the CPU was quite bad to begin with as it was based on their Bulldozer architecture and so practically anything from Intel at the time was a huge amount faster. If referring to the PS5/Xbox Series then the CPU is based on Zen2, which was already surpassed in the PC space by Zen3 at the time of release with Zen2 CPUs having been out for over a year. I doubt there is anything Sony could do to make the cores faster than Zen3.
MSterling wrote:
Wed, 27. Jan 21, 03:55
Same reason why Java puts garbage collection on a thread with low priority.
I am unsure what this has to do with your statement. The actual background garbage collection threads are lightweight as they are not moving/copying anything, only marking and sweeping. For logical reasons when they are copying objects they need to be run at the highest priority since a large part of the JVM may be stalled until they are done.

Some recently added GCs do try to do even more in parallel without pausing the VM, but these come with their own additional overhead.
MSterling wrote:
Wed, 27. Jan 21, 03:55
The POINT of this long winded blowhardiness is that there may be a requirement to reconfigure how things are done if you have a high-core-count CPU, because forking is trivially scalable, and threading lighter, but complexity grows as you increase thread counts. So it might have to run one program that is threaded if it detects 8 cores or less, and a different program that is forked for 10 cores or more.
As far as I am aware these is no situation where separate applications will perform better than a single application that is correctly using threading. Yes it is harder to debug, but as you pointed out there are significant savings due to how complicated applications are compared with threads. If you know of a game that does this I would like to look it up, but so far the only time I know that games spawn (fork) separate processes is for either interoperability with other applications or for anti-cheat monitoring.
MSterling wrote:
Wed, 27. Jan 21, 03:55
It could be worth Egosoft's time getting someone who has worked on embedded systems to help out in design, not for the embedded work, but on the knowledge of what can be done to minimise memory use, and then use a more efficient interpreter design to massively multifork and let the OS unhome from a CPU any interpreter that is dealing with an object whose script is paused and has nothing to do now, but will potentially come into life at an indeterminate point in the future.
This makes the assumption that Egosoft has not already minimised the memory usage as much as they can and have not already optimized their script engine as much as possible. Although there is likely room for improvement, the returns are almost certainly not cost effective, especially for a small developer working on a niche game.

The main issue limiting multi-threading are data dependencies. Everything in game has to happen in a reasonably reliable order. Due to the nature of the game, interactions have a very large scope so it is not really possible to split the updating across multiple threads while also maintaining a reliable order. Even different sectors still depend on each other due to logic being run in those sectors looking at objects in nearby sectors. Some tasks are multi-threaded, but the scope of these tasks is quite limited and hence the performance gains from high core count CPUs is quite limited.

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by MSterling » Thu, 4. Feb 21, 20:03

Imperial Good wrote:
Thu, 28. Jan 21, 03:02
MSterling wrote:
Wed, 27. Jan 21, 03:55
Same reason why Java puts garbage collection on a thread with low priority.
I am unsure what this has to do with your statement.
Garbage collection is done scheduled, asynchronously, collected so as to remove the waste of starting up a thread that will only operate a few thousand cycles. For garbage collection specifically, the clearing up requires informing any processing CPU that had an interest that their cache may be dirty now.
MSterling wrote:
Wed, 27. Jan 21, 03:55
The POINT of this long winded blowhardiness is that there may be a requirement to reconfigure how things are done if you have a high-core-count CPU, because forking is trivially scalable, and threading lighter, but complexity grows as you increase thread counts. So it might have to run one program that is threaded if it detects 8 cores or less, and a different program that is forked for 10 cores or more.
As far as I am aware these is no situation where separate applications will perform better than a single application that is correctly using threading.
It is that properly multiforking will run as fast as a threaded application. The benefits of this are in debugging and process separation.
MSterling wrote:
Wed, 27. Jan 21, 03:55
It could be worth Egosoft's time getting someone who has worked on embedded systems to help out in design, not for the embedded work, but on the knowledge of what can be done to minimise memory use, and then use a more efficient interpreter design to massively multifork and let the OS unhome from a CPU any interpreter that is dealing with an object whose script is paused and has nothing to do now, but will potentially come into life at an indeterminate point in the future.
This makes the assumption that Egosoft has not already minimised the memory usage as much as they can
That would be relevant rebuttal if you were thinking that Egosoft had minimised memory usage as much as possible. I haven't done much on embedded systems, other than look over someone else's work and kept up to date with the paradigms and news for a few years, and the problems they solve (because they HAVE to) really put a big question mark to THAT claim.

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by MSterling » Thu, 4. Feb 21, 20:10

Imperial Good wrote:
Thu, 28. Jan 21, 03:02
The main issue limiting multi-threading are data dependencies. Everything in game has to happen in a reasonably reliable order. Due to the nature of the game, interactions have a very large scope so it is not really possible to split the updating across multiple threads while also maintaining a reliable order. Even different sectors still depend on each other due to logic being run in those sectors looking at objects in nearby sectors. Some tasks are multi-threaded, but the scope of these tasks is quite limited and hence the performance gains from high core count CPUs is quite limited.
The main problem is data dependencies that do not actually depend on each other, but are shared by threads by default, meaning you have to invalidate more memory than you ACTUALLY have to.
You don't run a VM process then create threads from it to run windows. You scale to 1000 windows boxen by forking off the VM.

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by Panos » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:47

spookywatcher wrote:
Thu, 14. May 20, 20:40
I'm really interested in CPU performance (as this game is severely cpu bottle necked). Thinking about upgrades (intel 10 series and ryzen 4000)
The best method to test CPU bottleneck on X4, is to have a mature game with 200+ hours, a lot of stations and fleets.

I found the game using 10 cores on the 3900X.
Last edited by Panos on Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by Gavrushka » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:52

Panos wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:47
spookywatcher wrote:
Thu, 14. May 20, 20:40
I'm really interested in CPU performance (as this game is severely cpu bottle necked). Thinking about upgrades (intel 10 series and ryzen 4000)
The best method to test CPU bottleneck on X4, is to have a mature game with 200+ hours, a lot of stations and fleets.
I think performance has taken a quantum leap forward with the latest few betas, especially around stations, but I can report my 10700 (stock) doesn't ever feel taxed in a reasonably mature game now. I recently upgraded from an I7 8700 with mechanical drive, and it was the HDD that hit performance hardest. - My graphic card now no longer goes above 50 Celsius at Ultra settings too, so the game is growing more PC friendly, I feel.
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by Panos » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:56

Gavrushka wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:52
Panos wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:47
spookywatcher wrote:
Thu, 14. May 20, 20:40
I'm really interested in CPU performance (as this game is severely cpu bottle necked). Thinking about upgrades (intel 10 series and ryzen 4000)
The best method to test CPU bottleneck on X4, is to have a mature game with 200+ hours, a lot of stations and fleets.
I think performance has taken a quantum leap forward with the latest few betas, especially around stations, but I can report my 10700 (stock) doesn't ever feel taxed in a reasonably mature game now. I recently upgraded from an I7 8700 with mechanical drive, and it was the HDD that hit performance hardest. - My graphic card now no longer goes above 50 Celsius at Ultra settings too, so the game is growing more PC friendly, I feel.
As wrote above, found the game using 10 cores. However that is on Linux where I get 20% more fps pre 4.0 (haven't played with 4.0 yet) than on windows. (3900X, 5700XT or Vega 64)

hxsgame
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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by hxsgame » Sat, 3. Apr 21, 07:00

Hope someone provides intel 11400/f 's data.

lmike
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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by lmike » Sat, 3. Apr 21, 17:55

4.00 Hotfix 3 Release (434806) without CoH dlc

CPU : 7700HQ @ 2.8 - 3.8 ghz, undervolt -0.15mv
RAM : 2x8 GB 2400MHz CL17 Dual Channel

Young Gun : 98 - 105 fps
Dense Emp : 14 - 15 fps
Dense Emp empty sector: 95 - 105 fps

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by Roeleveld » Mon, 5. Apr 21, 12:07

Panos wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:56
Gavrushka wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:52
Panos wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:47


The best method to test CPU bottleneck on X4, is to have a mature game with 200+ hours, a lot of stations and fleets.
I think performance has taken a quantum leap forward with the latest few betas, especially around stations, but I can report my 10700 (stock) doesn't ever feel taxed in a reasonably mature game now. I recently upgraded from an I7 8700 with mechanical drive, and it was the HDD that hit performance hardest. - My graphic card now no longer goes above 50 Celsius at Ultra settings too, so the game is growing more PC friendly, I feel.
As wrote above, found the game using 10 cores. However that is on Linux where I get 20% more fps pre 4.0 (haven't played with 4.0 yet) than on windows. (3900X, 5700XT or Vega 64)
10 cores at 100%?
Or is the process jumping between cores?

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by Panos » Mon, 5. Apr 21, 22:10

Roeleveld wrote:
Mon, 5. Apr 21, 12:07
Panos wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:56
Gavrushka wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:52


I think performance has taken a quantum leap forward with the latest few betas, especially around stations, but I can report my 10700 (stock) doesn't ever feel taxed in a reasonably mature game now. I recently upgraded from an I7 8700 with mechanical drive, and it was the HDD that hit performance hardest. - My graphic card now no longer goes above 50 Celsius at Ultra settings too, so the game is growing more PC friendly, I feel.
As wrote above, found the game using 10 cores. However that is on Linux where I get 20% more fps pre 4.0 (haven't played with 4.0 yet) than on windows. (3900X, 5700XT or Vega 64)
10 cores at 100%?
Or is the process jumping between cores?
1 core 100% constant
1 core at 70-80%
8 cores fluctuating 10-70% most of the time.
I have turned off SMT so no "threads".

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by dunkah » Mon, 5. Apr 21, 23:22

Version: 4.0 hotfix 3
CPU: 5900x
Mem: 32GB (4x8) 3600DDR4
GPU: 3090 2560x1440 144hz
Young Gun : 143-146
Dense Emp : 25-28
Dense Emp / Empty : 137-140

Watching the cores, 2-4 usually would have 50-100% utilization, the other 8 0-30, SMT enabled. No OC except precision boost overdrive, was around 4.8ghz most of the time, with some spikes above and below.

edit: SMT was enabled when I double checked :)

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by KextV8 » Tue, 6. Apr 21, 01:15

Two Computers to report, both are using low preset, resolution 1080p.
Version 4.0 Hotfix 3.

First:
i7 2600k 16gb RAM, 970 4gb
Young Guns - 85-90 fps
Empire Empty - 80-86 fps
Empire Dense - 13-18 fps

Second:

i7 7700HQ, 16gb RAM, 1060 6gb - This is a laptop.
Young Guns - 87-90 fps
Empire Empty - 85-90 fps
Empire Dense - 14-19 fps

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by Roeleveld » Tue, 6. Apr 21, 06:30

Panos wrote:
Mon, 5. Apr 21, 22:10
Roeleveld wrote:
Mon, 5. Apr 21, 12:07
Panos wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:56


As wrote above, found the game using 10 cores. However that is on Linux where I get 20% more fps pre 4.0 (haven't played with 4.0 yet) than on windows. (3900X, 5700XT or Vega 64)
10 cores at 100%?
Or is the process jumping between cores?
1 core 100% constant
1 core at 70-80%
8 cores fluctuating 10-70% most of the time.
I have turned off SMT so no "threads".
the 100% one is most likely due to X4.
The 70-80% might be an extra thread for X4
The rest, not so much.

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by Panos » Wed, 7. Apr 21, 00:42

Roeleveld wrote:
Tue, 6. Apr 21, 06:30
Panos wrote:
Mon, 5. Apr 21, 22:10
Roeleveld wrote:
Mon, 5. Apr 21, 12:07


10 cores at 100%?
Or is the process jumping between cores?
1 core 100% constant
1 core at 70-80%
8 cores fluctuating 10-70% most of the time.
I have turned off SMT so no "threads".
the 100% one is most likely due to X4.
The 70-80% might be an extra thread for X4
The rest, not so much.
I use Linux, the game isn't restricted by the Windows scheduler, that is why also runs 20% faster

SumUser
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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by SumUser » Wed, 7. Apr 21, 06:38

I could run this test (and might) but I will say the frame change between my old i5 4690k and my new 5600x (PBO) is night and day. Graphics card is still my old 1070, yet now I can turn everything maxed out (minus space reflections) and travel anywhere (including Second Contact as well as Grand Exchange) with 60fps. FPS will still drop with a fully zoomed out galaxy map and I'm sure busy stations and large battles will slow it down as well... But there is zero doubt this game benefits from a fast CPU.

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by hxsgame » Thu, 15. Apr 21, 07:53

SumUser wrote:
Wed, 7. Apr 21, 06:38
I could run this test (and might) but I will say the frame change between my old i5 4690k and my new 5600x (PBO) is night and day ……
Thanks, Hope to see your test results.
Very curious, the performance between of 5600x and 10600kf.

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by hiveliberty » Thu, 15. Apr 21, 22:50

Version: 4.0 HF3
CPU: Ryzen 2600X (uv offset -0.06, PBO on)
Mem: 32GB (2x16) 3200 DDR4 16-16-18-16-36-54
GPU: Vega 64 LC 2560x1440 (uv + hbm2@1045 and timings tweaked) VSync off, SSAO off, SSR off, other settings maxed and FXAA
Young Gun : 112-114
Dense Emp : 16-20
Dense Emp / Empty : 115-118

Same results for 1920x1080
For both resolutions the GPU load is about 67-71%

It's time to upgrade CPU to 5600X ))

update:
another interesting test with same hardware config, but slight differences
i disabled 4 cores - now 2 cores only with SMT
Young Gun : 93-94
Dense Emp : 12-14
Dense Emp / Empty : 85-87

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by Panos » Sun, 16. May 21, 08:56

spookywatcher wrote:
Thu, 14. May 20, 20:40
*** Edit ***
Windows 10 (i will do a follow up in Linux)

CPU : 3900X (preferred Cores and CPPC ON, No PBO just stock boost speeds and SMT OFF so it only has 12 threads not 24)
RAM : 3800C16 (1900IF)
GPU : 5700XT (2100Mhz @1150mv - stock speed just undervolted), 1800Mhz VRAM

Resolution : 2560x1440
SSAO HIGH
Young Gun : 111-113 (pointing at the planet 94-99)
Dense Emp : 22-24
Dense Emp / Empty : 122-124 (opened map around 80)

SSAO OFF
Young Gun : ~130 (pointing at the planet 120)
Dense Emp : 22-24
Dense Emp / Empty : 128-130 (opened map around 100)

Resolution : 1920x1080
SSAO HIGH
Young Gun : 130-132 (pointing at the planet 130-132)
Dense Emp : 22-24
Dense Emp / Empty : 130-132 (opened map around 100)

SSAO OFF
Young Gun : 134 (pointing at the planet 130-132)
Dense Emp : 22-24
Dense Emp / Empty : 132 (opened map around 106)




Game settings 4.0 HF3
AA NONE, Textures High, Shadows High, Soft Shadows ON, Glow High, Chromatic Abe ON, Distortion ON, LOD 100, Effect Distance 71, Radar High, SSR Low, Volumetric Fog High.


If any developer looks at the above, as an analyst & developer myself, I feel the planet FPS drop at 2560x1440 over 1920x1080 at Young Gun (with SSAO) is bit drastic.
Had to retest it several times because it feels something is wrong, it shouldn't justify 20% reduction by pointing at the planet while 1080p is not affected.
With SAAO OFF is 10% drop.

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by Action_Parsnip » Mon, 5. Jul 21, 21:52

Hi

If anyone is interested in a 5600x result:

CPU: 5600X (no overclock) Version: 4.1 (latest beta as per July 5th)
Mem: 3600 DDR4 - Very tight timings and subtimings as per Ryzen Dram Calculator
GPU: Rx580
Resolution & Settings: 1920x1080, all lowest
Young Gun : 121 - 136 fps
Dense Emp : 29 - 30 fps (settings I play the game at - 26fps)
Dense Emp / Empty : 161 - 165 fps

Over my old 2600 non-X the dense empire numbers are something like 10 fps more. It is quite insane the improvement.

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Re: Post your FPS & CPU's scores - instructions how to measure included - 5950x included!

Post by Mr.Freud » Wed, 7. Jul 21, 12:22

The day the game gets proper multi-threading optimization gonna be the biggest day for X4. If that ever happens. Until then it will never get to its true potential.

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