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Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:21
by CBJ
radcapricorn wrote: ↑
Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:18
From the gameplay standpoint, it just doesn't make sense. If you actively kill SCA members, disturb or destroy their stations, full faction or not you'd think the members of this "pact" would want to do something about you.
It makes perfect sense. A non-aggression pact is not the same as a full alliance; agreeing with someone not to shoot each other doesn't mean agreeing to shoot someone else on their behalf.

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:25
by tomchk
Perhaps they will let us use the diplomacy features coming to make/bribe a main faction go to war with everyone (like HOP almost is), although I guess they might still be friends with the player until you destroy like 35 stations... πŸ˜“

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:31
by radcapricorn
CBJ wrote: ↑
Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:21
It makes perfect sense. A non-aggression pact is not the same as a full alliance; agreeing with someone not to shoot each other doesn't mean agreeing to shoot someone else on their behalf.
Not my point at all :(
If someone is actively targeting members of their "pact", they're not supposed to worry or do something about it?.. How is that even remotely possible? Pact, faction, club, we can call it whatever we like, whether they signed a treaty with blood from their pinkies or not.
"Hey, you heard, 20 more guys were killed yesterday!"
"Bah, no worries, not our problem!"
"Don't you think there's someone hunting us?"
"Bah, no worries, not our problem!"
"But, you know, there's a fleet wrecking our weed supplier over yonder!"
"Not our problem!"
"But they're coming this way now!!!"
"Not our problem!.."

Such a "pact" won't last a day. I.e., if they function as you describe, the only reason to explain their very existence in the universe is that nobody cares.

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:42
by JanB
radcapricorn wrote: ↑
Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:18
CBJ wrote: ↑
Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:12
Pretty much this. The SCA is just a "pact", not a full faction. You can't increase or decrease your reputation with one of the pact's members by doing things, positive or negative, involving another. That's exactly how it is supposed to be, and it's not a "cheat"; it's an accurate representation of how the SCA operates. We have no plans to change that in the foreseeable future.
Which is a shame. From the gameplay standpoint, it just doesn't make sense. If you actively kill SCA members, disturb or destroy their stations, full faction or not you'd think the members of this "pact" would want to do something about you. Somewhere, the X3 pirates sob into a pillow.
Not for me. I`m a pirate and I need an ally beacause every other faction is my enemy. I`m need some (good) bad guys.^^ at least please let them sell all station modules for a very high price.

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:44
by Ketraar
radcapricorn wrote: ↑
Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:31
If someone is actively targeting members of their "pact", they're not supposed to worry or do something about it?.. How is that even remotely possible? Pact, faction, club, we can call it whatever we like, whether they signed a treaty with blood from their pinkies or not.
Your reasoning presumes that such pact means the people in it like each other. There are plenty of fictional examples where pirate "factions" tolerate each other but would neither mind nor care if some within the "faction" get hurt, mostly it just means less competition, thus more profits.

MFG

Ketraar

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:50
by tomchk
Know what might help a ton? Make their ships way more dangerous. Best crews, best everything. Make them incredibly hard to exploit or defeat. Thoughts?

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:57
by radcapricorn
Ketraar wrote: ↑
Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:44
Your reasoning presumes that such pact means the people in it like each other. There are plenty of fictional examples where pirate "factions" tolerate each other but would neither mind nor care if some within the "faction" get hurt, mostly it just means less competition, thus more profits.
Nope, my reasoning presumes only one, very simple, thing: people want to live. When their, uh, social club is being hunted, it doesn't matter if they like each other, they would do something about it, one way or another. "Bend over and die" does not describe a criminal organization, like, at all.

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 18:03
by CBJ
OK, this has gone way too deep into one small thing for this announcement thread. Feel free to discuss it elsewhere.

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 18:18
by Artean
CBJ wrote: ↑
Fri, 15. Nov 19, 18:03
OK, this has gone way too deep into one small thing for this announcement thread. Feel free to discuss it elsewhere.
Indeed. Let me put forward a more relevant observation (and, perhaps, undocumented change): all fences on station has finally changed their former purple tint into a more transparent one. Not being a fan of colors, and purple in particular, this is a great change! The devil's in the details...

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 18:22
by tomchk
So much of the visuals are greatly improved now, no doubt with much thanks to those who brought us better shaders! Lights and reflections look so much better--among the best I've seen in any game. I also love that the target rectangles are much more polished than the thick blue rectangles they were before 3.0. That stuff really does matter! Good job, Egosoft.

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 19:02
by Xcelsior
CBJ wrote: ↑
Fri, 15. Nov 19, 17:12
tomchk wrote: ↑
Fri, 15. Nov 19, 16:38
I thought having SCA locked this way was meant to provide β€œindependent” pirates because you can attack one without bothering the others. Dev feedback would be helpful on this.
Pretty much this. The SCA is just a "pact", not a full faction. You can't increase or decrease your reputation with one of the pact's members by doing things, positive or negative, involving another. That's exactly how it is supposed to be, and it's not a "cheat"; it's an accurate representation of how the SCA operates. We have no plans to change that in the foreseeable future.
The SCA are like the mafia, or cartels, or any other organized crime organization. A haphazard pact of ships would not be able to build and maintain stations without leadership and funds. I just don't see individual pirates chipping in to build a trading post without a little encouragement from someone that they fear more than the police.

The SCA "should" be a faction that we can join and increase faction standing, or decrease as individuals or part of a police start.

And, there should also be other pirate ships not associated with SCA; freelancers (not referring to the game, just using the term) just like us. The other ships should always be hostile to the SCA and the player as they are acting as independent contractors.

EDIT: I had already responded to a previous post when I saw the request to stop discussing this topic. If the devs won't fix this, a modder will eventually. End of discussion as requested.

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 19:58
by dougeye
Gone to play the beta tonight again and gog is downloading a 3gb update? any idea what this is? maybe new sectors etc Bernd spoke about on the livestream?

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 20:01
by CBJ
There hasn't been any new update, and we'd certainly let you know if there was something major like that.

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 20:07
by dougeye
Must be GOG thinking the games not installed or something silly then! shame i was hoping for more goodies! lol

Re: 3.0 Public Beta is now available

Posted: Fri, 15. Nov 19, 20:07
by dougeye
just a rather disappointing wait to play walst it downloads now lol