Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

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hxsgame
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Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by hxsgame » Sat, 20. Jul 19, 13:39

If weapons (such as missiles, lasers) have more options for longer range, will tactics and fighting fun be better?

The 10km range greatly limits the way the battle is played. It doesn't feel like a space battle, but like fight with the cold weapon.

Imperial Good
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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by Imperial Good » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 02:59

I think the range is an engine limitation. Too far and one starts to run into low attention issues where combat simulation is not perfect.

radcapricorn
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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by radcapricorn » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 03:10

Yes, but... 10km? That's like spitting distance in this game.

hxsgame
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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by hxsgame » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 06:42

Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 02:59
I think the range is an engine limitation. Too far and one starts to run into low attention issues where combat simulation is not perfect.
What a pity if it is an engine limit...

Maybe ego focuses on Dogfight, but I think they should offer more options in other way(For example, the longer range weapon).

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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by Falcrack » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 07:12

hxsgame wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 06:42
Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 02:59
I think the range is an engine limitation. Too far and one starts to run into low attention issues where combat simulation is not perfect.
What a pity if it is an engine limit...

Maybe ego focuses on Dogfight, but I think they should offer more options in other way(For example, the longer range weapon).
I don't think it is an engine limit, just a game balance decision.

Imperial Good
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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by Imperial Good » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 08:01

Modify in the Paranid railgun (it exists in data but is disabled). Now go around shooting it at ships in the 20-40 km distance. You can basically shoot at any fleet or ship with it and they will not be able to respond correctly. Even out of sector it will melt enemy ships that get within radar range. This is an example of why long range combat is not currently healthy for the game. One could try tuning the numbers on the railgun all you want, it will still likely be the most OP weapon in the game.

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Shuulo
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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 09:51

Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 02:59
I think the range is an engine limitation. Too far and one starts to run into low attention issues where combat simulation is not perfect.
That is incorrect. Issue like this can arise if weapon range will be higher than 30-40 km, but 20-30 km is just fine. All capital ships weapons in my VRO mod are 15-25 km range and there is no problem with this at all.
Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 08:01
Modify in the Paranid railgun (it exists in data but is disabled). Now go around shooting it at ships in the 20-40 km distance. You can basically shoot at any fleet or ship with it and they will not be able to respond correctly. Even out of sector it will melt enemy ships that get within radar range. This is an example of why long range combat is not currently healthy for the game. One could try tuning the numbers on the railgun all you want, it will still likely be the most OP weapon in the game.
Of coarse they will not be able to respond correctly without the same weapon ranges. Long range combat is just fine if you balance the game around it, this was my main problem with the game, so i created VRO mod.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by mr.WHO » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 11:20

My only problem with the vanilla X4 ranges are M-size turrets on XL ship.
XL vs XL ship combat is just retarded dance of two ships outside of their weapon ranges.

XL ships should have large turrets - now they have only one and in bad place.
They should have at least several large turrets.

hxsgame
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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by hxsgame » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 11:33

mr.WHO wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 11:20
My only problem with the vanilla X4 ranges are M-size turrets on XL ship.
XL vs XL ship combat is just retarded dance of two ships outside of their weapon ranges.

XL ships should have large turrets - now they have only one and in bad place.
They should have at least several large turrets.
Around the fighter Dogfight, Instead of a giant ship star war.
That is my feeling.
And because of the fighting AI and Weapon system problem, the dog fight also lacks the feeling.

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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by LameFox » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 18:30

Since they also moved away from the heavier and more sluggish capital ships, I guess having a longer range probably makes the already terrible AI even worse at fighting. It's a pity though; those big, slow cap-ship fights were one of my favourite parts of X3.
***modified***

Imperial Good
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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by Imperial Good » Mon, 22. Jul 19, 00:52

The problem with long range for the player is that everything appears like an ant on the display. Even an M ship at 20km range is hard to see unless at 4k or 8k resolution. And since there is no mechanic to restrict capital ship weapons to only firing at other capital ships giving them such range results in them also sniping NPC S and M ships which are in formations at that distance as they are as good as stationary.

The short ranges are likely for gameplay. It means that to shoot something you pretty much have to be able to eye them rather than completely relying on auto targeting. And yes I do this quite often when shooting K and I ships with L destroyers as an eyeball aimed main guns is often more accurate at hitting engines than the auto aim. This is possible due to the 6-10km operating range, I could not do this at 20-30km operating range.

Falcrack
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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by Falcrack » Mon, 22. Jul 19, 01:16

I think capital ship plasma weapons, at the least, ought to have their range increased by a little bit, and their speed increased by a lot. I think it looks a bit silly now how slowly they move. It makes them super inaccurate in sector.

EmperorDragon
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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by EmperorDragon » Mon, 22. Jul 19, 12:54

I also use a mod that increases the range of M and L turrets as well as increasing the projectile speed of plasma weapons. It makes quite a difference, capital ship battles is intense and quite a lightshow to behold. Even smaller M ship skirmishes becomes like a Star Wars battle directed by JJ Abrams.

The drawback is that fighters is more vulnerable due to being outranged by capital ship turrets, capital ship battles is quite a show but fighters die quicker. I can live with this, taking a small wing of fighters into a capital ship fight should be a suicidal thing to do (unless well-planned, which is still possible).
“To be the first to enter the cosmos, to engage, single-handed, in an unprecedented duel with nature - could one dream of anything more?” - Yuri Gagarin

hxsgame
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Re: Small suggestion Why can't weapons have a longer range?

Post by hxsgame » Mon, 22. Jul 19, 13:20

EmperorDragon wrote:
Mon, 22. Jul 19, 12:54
I also use a mod that increases the range of M and L turrets as well as increasing the projectile speed of plasma weapons. It makes quite a difference, capital ship battles is intense and quite a lightshow to behold. Even smaller M ship skirmishes becomes like a Star Wars battle directed by JJ Abrams.

The drawback is that fighters is more vulnerable due to being outranged by capital ship turrets, capital ship battles is quite a show but fighters die quicker. I can live with this, taking a small wing of fighters into a capital ship fight should be a suicidal thing to do (unless well-planned, which is still possible).
I think fighters should be more vulnerable.

One fighter, destroys all the turrets of the capital. It is really not harmonious.

Hundreds of fighters confrontation a capital, that is better.

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