Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

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Tamina
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Tamina » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 11:41

mr.WHO wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 11:24
Lwerewolf wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 03:28
As for x3 vs x4... x3:ap is pretty much an evolution of x:btf's engine, and x4 is not even a year old. Accusations and insults aren't helping much :)
Actually X4 is an evolution of X-Rebirth engine, so it's older than you think.
X-R was based on DirectX 9 (Windows XP 2002) vs X4 being built on Vulcan (2019). As far as I can tell, that's a big difference.

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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by spankahontis » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 12:39

Tamina wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 11:41
mr.WHO wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 11:24
Lwerewolf wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 03:28
As for x3 vs x4... x3:ap is pretty much an evolution of x:btf's engine, and x4 is not even a year old. Accusations and insults aren't helping much :)
Actually X4 is an evolution of X-Rebirth engine, so it's older than you think.
X-R was based on DirectX 9 (Windows XP 2002) vs X4 being built on Vulcan (2019). As far as I can tell, that's a big difference.
They're still using X-Rebirth as a (excuse the pun) Foundation for X4 to evolve from. Wasn't Rebirth built on Open GL?
But everything from the Relations Bar, Station Walking, constructional/destroyable objects on ships, Map UI, even down to Rebirths terrible pathfinding and collision is similar to Rebirth.
My most annoying Bugs list 2.60 Beta 3
--------------------------------
Xenon & Kha'ak Stations wont die FIXED! :D
War Factions are not fighting each other FIXED?
Right Comscreen Freezes and breaks :o
Xenon Nerfed :cry:

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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by radcapricorn » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 13:25

Tamina wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 11:41
X-R was based on DirectX 9 (Windows XP 2002) vs X4 being built on Vulcan (2019). As far as I can tell, that's a big difference.
Rebirth had two backends (DX on Windows and OpenGL on Linux/Mac), Rebirth VR migrated to Vulkan. So...

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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Tamina » Sun, 21. Jul 19, 13:28

OpenGL was used for the Linux version exclusively, then they changed to Vulcan for XR-VR (2017), while OpenGL and Vulcan just imitated the Dx9 look of the windows version they weren't a technical advancement, Vulcan was needed to get the FPS up for VR, not for graphical nonsense. Again 2002 vs 2019.
In XR there were no windows, i.e., because they had problems with multiple lightsources and shadows in DX9 if I recall correctly, so everything was just lit up on the insides. People (including me) don't think about such problems.

X4 has so much more to offer on the technical side then the pre-XR era with a few metallic rigid bodies, that I couldn't care less in that regard. I just would like to have some designs back from XR, but that's life. In a few years people probably want X4 ship designs back. WHAT WAS WILL BE WHAT WILL BE WAS

And yes, the X3 industrial sci-fi design has a charm but when I look up Youtube videos of X3-AP, it looks NOWHERE close to those screenshots some users are posting here, sorry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_VvwJ6VaKU
Designs are great but graphics are horrible. Nostalgia at its best.

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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by adeine » Mon, 22. Jul 19, 13:36

adeine wrote:
Wed, 3. Jul 19, 20:17
I think it's partially due to the new engine making reflections look bad across large surfaces. Paranid capital ships were basically flying mirrors which looked "ok" with X3's fakey environmental mapping, but try applying a reflective paint job on an X4 Paranid capital ship and turn it so you can see a planet reflected on it. It looks like a pixelated mess.
Since people are discussing/comparing, here are a few old screenshots to illustrate:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

^ notice how X3's mirroring effect in the foreground is sort of grainy instead of pixelated or blurry. If X4 could do a similar transform on its actual reflections, especially on large ships they would likely look a lot better.

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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Killjaeden » Tue, 23. Jul 19, 17:49

Tamina wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 13:28
And yes, the X3 industrial sci-fi design has a charm but when I look up Youtube videos of X3-AP, it looks NOWHERE close to those screenshots some users are posting here, sorry
There are a good portion of sectors that are really dark. And only few sectors have multiple light sources (so the dark parts aren't pitch black). Therefore you dont really see what the ships actually look like a lot of the time.
Or do you think i faked the screenshots of the nova ? :?
Tamina wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 13:28
Designs are great but graphics are horrible. Nostalgia at its best.
There is nothing nostalgic this. The quality of the X3 reflections is nothing to write home about. I cant speak for everyone, but for my part i exclusively criticize design...some may criticise graphics, but i think thats rather from a lack of knowing the difference/ identifying exactly whats bothering them about X4's look and feel. Egosoft could easily make the X4 ship metals more shiny. That alone wouldn't help anyone however. It's the design that contributes the majority of the unrealistic, toyish look.
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Panos » Sun, 22. Sep 19, 14:29

pref wrote:
Thu, 18. Jul 19, 20:32
Honestly i just got surprised how much better X3 ships look (i have resurrection retexture mod, but that's not the point).
You use advanced high quality texture mod and you say is not the point when you post screenshots comparing X3 and X4?

Thats image from the ingame engine of X3. See the differences in texture quality without mod?

https://i.imgur.com/4Q5PdvX.jpg

How that can be compared to this one, seriously?

https://i.imgur.com/fkq1fHY.jpg


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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by pref » Sun, 22. Sep 19, 17:44

Panos wrote:
Sun, 22. Sep 19, 14:29
You use advanced high quality texture mod and you say is not the point when you post screenshots comparing X3 and X4?

Thats image from the ingame engine of X3. See the differences in texture quality without mod?
Yep, interestingly the texture mod does not even increase texture resolution which is way higher in X4 anyway.
Apart from that the point was ship design and general look which is the same regardless of retexture.
Tamina wrote:
Sun, 21. Jul 19, 13:28
And yes, the X3 industrial sci-fi design has a charm but when I look up Youtube videos of X3-AP, it looks NOWHERE close to those screenshots some users are posting here, sorry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_VvwJ6VaKU
Designs are great but graphics are horrible. Nostalgia at its best.
The vid has some terrible post process or compression noise - the text under the crosshair is barely readable because of that. That's not how AP looks in reality.

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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by AquilaRossa » Mon, 23. Sep 19, 09:43

Thread was dredged, but I'll bite. I did not play XR. I played X3R and TC a lot. I expected to be amazed by X4 graphics after 10 years away. I was not. I would not say they are worse, but they are not a great leap forward either. What I decided is that the game is so massive that graphics texture and effects quality appears to have been less of a priority when they planned the game for current hardware. If so, I kind of agree with that call. FPS can be a problem in this game. I would much rather smooth frames than pretty ones that stutter. I prefer to have 100s of ships fighting at decent FPS, than just a few at high resolution. Hopefully in future we can have both.

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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Warnoise » Tue, 24. Sep 19, 06:47

adeine wrote:
Mon, 22. Jul 19, 13:36
... stuff
I wish we had this beautiful beast in X4

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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by DaMuncha » Thu, 26. Sep 19, 22:35

I prefer the look of X3 over XR and X4. The light was harsh and had alot of contrast, like space with zero atmosphere should be. The ships all had unique designs and there were many more of them. In X4 theres little distinction between the races.

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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by mr.WHO » Fri, 27. Sep 19, 13:40

You guys seriously need to check your eyes.
X3 is UGLY for modern standards! Can it really compare to this?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1873769922

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1873769817

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1873769754

Jaswolf
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Jaswolf » Fri, 27. Sep 19, 14:03

You can achieve great visual in XR (I generally lower the gamma by 10% of its original ingame value)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1686775072

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1686967094

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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by Artean » Fri, 27. Sep 19, 16:45

mr.WHO wrote:
Fri, 27. Sep 19, 13:40
You guys seriously need to check your eyes.
X3 is UGLY for modern standards! Can it really compare to this?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1873769922

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1873769817

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1873769754
There's no comparison when it comes to pure graphics quality - X4 is miles ahead. There are some nice ship designs in X3 though, but based on what we have seen so far from the upcoming Split DLC, that gap will diminish as well.
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Re: Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?

Post by lordpazuzu » Sat, 28. Sep 19, 03:00

mr.WHO wrote:
Fri, 27. Sep 19, 13:40
You guys seriously need to check your eyes.
X3 is UGLY for modern standards! Can it really compare to this?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1873769922

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1873769817

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1873769754
I agree 100% with you! X4 looks amazing and it will even more with the new DLC.

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