I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

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Malakie
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Malakie » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 21:38

CaptainX4 wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:24
CaptainSim wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:17
CaptainX4 wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:12


and you think those are the things people have to do to finish the game? to find all the 28 depots and do the same crap 28 times for 28 useless reward? these are not the reason to play, these are just little things during the journey and X games were never about ruling the universe. its to become the most powerful, to reach the top, and thats pretty doable in 20 hours. form that taking down a xenon sector is just: go! kill!, well, would be if it worked but its not even working. I can capture tons of huge ships turn them on any faction and deal with them in no time, but total destruction is just repetitive and not the aim for everybody, i for one liked to live in peace with all factions, build up my empire fight only the xenon and khaak and in earlier games this took months, now in 20 hours you can easily get to the level where you would be able to beat the crap out of anybody and you dont even need to exploit the game for it, just play normally...

There is no particular right way to play the game. He was just giving you the full extent of your possibilities. If you wanted to do EVERYTHING, it would take much longer than 20 hours obviously. Another way to challenge yourself is to institute Ironman mode and restart from the beginning rather than your last save. That's what I do. It keeps things mysterious until I've really earned it.
no, sadly he insisted that the other guy didnt finish the game because he has to do all those things to claim that. and thats pretty different. Im not sure though how to do ironman in this game as I cant remember a single case where I died for anything but bugs and for me that wouldnt justify a restart, I used to start fresh though with each upgrade. the very sad thing is that after the second restart there is no any mysterious in this game as you will just know everything and again it will be just repetitive. ohh there and there and there were the depots, there i can buy that ship... etc etc etc. as there is no real variation, especially reasonable variation there is just no reason. at least if some stuff would be random but its not...
Hey I used his OWN words.. he said he completed the game in 20 hours, which is NOT possible...
Take it light.....

Malakie

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Malakie
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Malakie » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 21:43

MHDriver wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 02:55
Interesting thread and replies. I have never played any X series games before X4 and only because I was just tired of Elite, EOL and waiting on SC. I bought the game at the beginning of Feb and enjoyed it enough that currently I have over 600 hrs in the game (I'm Retired). I started wondering is it just me or is this galaxy too small for this game, but I see others do as well.

In short, due to some bugs I guess in 1.6 I have 95 ships, 50 stations and about 3 b in credits and it seems that I have over saturated the economy or maybe it is the 2.0 changes but revenue has just dried up. Most of my industrial ships just sit in space full of wares with nowhere to go. I have explored everything, earned +30 rep with all the major factions and now all I do now is sit in the map mode trying to defend the four quadrants from the Xenon incursion so I spend little time actually in a ship since the change. Seems Egosoft have decided the game needs to be war based and everything else is incidental to that. At any rate, I have run out of things to do other than fight Xenos and think maybe X series is just a flash in the pan and it is time to move on.
Don't get me wrong, I agree the galaxy is way too small and there is a lot missing.. However as a player of Egosofts X series from X-Beyond's release, I can tell you that they WILL rectify that as they develop more content.. We that have been in the series for so long can clearly see that with X4, Egosoft made a huge shift in the design so that now it is damn easy to add new and huge content.

X4 is just out but I would bet big time, there are some of the well known modders of the entires series, right now working on huge mods that will blow your mind when they finally announce and release them... And some of those mods are as big and inclusive as the content Egosoft will soon be adding to the game themselves...

This ride is long from over for X4... of that you can have no doubt on... While I agree this initial release was way too small in scope and size, my bet is they simply ran out of time to incorporate all parts.. they needed to get the new version in our hands to generate income... Keep in mind, Egosoft is a small one product studio.. this IS their life line to stay in business so I fully understand why they went this route...

Yes, the game has issues, especially in the user interface, i.e. lacking any kind of filters for the lists for your properties, owned and sector viewed etc... but I am sure they will get there...
Take it light.....

Malakie

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MHDriver
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by MHDriver » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 22:25

Malakie wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 21:43
MHDriver wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 02:55
Interesting thread and replies. I have never played any X series games before X4 and only because I was just tired of Elite, EOL and waiting on SC. I bought the game at the beginning of Feb and enjoyed it enough that currently I have over 600 hrs in the game (I'm Retired). I started wondering is it just me or is this galaxy too small for this game, but I see others do as well.

In short, due to some bugs I guess in 1.6 I have 95 ships, 50 stations and about 3 b in credits and it seems that I have over saturated the economy or maybe it is the 2.0 changes but revenue has just dried up. Most of my industrial ships just sit in space full of wares with nowhere to go. I have explored everything, earned +30 rep with all the major factions and now all I do now is sit in the map mode trying to defend the four quadrants from the Xenon incursion so I spend little time actually in a ship since the change. Seems Egosoft have decided the game needs to be war based and everything else is incidental to that. At any rate, I have run out of things to do other than fight Xenos and think maybe X series is just a flash in the pan and it is time to move on.
Don't get me wrong, I agree the galaxy is way too small and there is a lot missing.. However as a player of Egosofts X series from X-Beyond's release, I can tell you that they WILL rectify that as they develop more content.. We that have been in the series for so long can clearly see that with X4, Egosoft made a huge shift in the design so that now it is damn easy to add new and huge content.

X4 is just out but I would bet big time, there are some of the well known modders of the entires series, right now working on huge mods that will blow your mind when they finally announce and release them... And some of those mods are as big and inclusive as the content Egosoft will soon be adding to the game themselves...

This ride is long from over for X4... of that you can have no doubt on... While I agree this initial release was way too small in scope and size, my bet is they simply ran out of time to incorporate all parts.. they needed to get the new version in our hands to generate income... Keep in mind, Egosoft is a small one product studio.. this IS their life line to stay in business so I fully understand why they went this route...

Yes, the game has issues, especially in the user interface, i.e. lacking any kind of filters for the lists for your properties, owned and sector viewed etc... but I am sure they will get there...
Well you have a better perspective than I do for sure. I don't see any real point to X4 tbh. The Xeno incursions have reached a level where the endless tide of K's streaming out of Xeno space are camping gates and destroying everything, ships, stations especially the ones that I am in. The economy has slowed to a trickle and there just isn't time to do anything other than defend or withdraw all assets to some dead end pocket and I am tired of the endless battles. Perhaps as you suggest the game will have a point to it down the road but for now the list of games that promise to be something someday is getting kinda long.

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Combat Wombat » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 22:53

The issue is X4 is missing the externally imposed goals of X3:TC and AP. With no plots to drive you, what point would there be in building that giant microchip complex? Having some real plots would solve 98% of my remaining issues with X4.
You can give a man fire and he will be warm for a day, but set him on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by repatomonor » Thu, 7. Mar 19, 01:40

Combat Wombat wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 22:53
The issue is X4 is missing the externally imposed goals of X3:TC and AP. With no plots to drive you, what point would there be in building that giant microchip complex? Having some real plots would solve 98% of my remaining issues with X4.
I disagree. The plots only entertain you until they are over. Not saying they wouldn't be nice to have, but what really is missing from the universe is life, characteristics and variations. Every single npc, every other ship, mission, almost every sector is just a clone of each other. Landing on stations is all the same because of the dock module (in contrast to X-Btf - X2, where every station type had different docking interriors and was a joy to discover and see them all).
There is no point in discovering everything if everything is the same. Hell, even vanguard-sentinel ships have the same models.
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Warnoise » Thu, 7. Mar 19, 02:11

repatomonor wrote:
Thu, 7. Mar 19, 01:40
Combat Wombat wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 22:53
The issue is X4 is missing the externally imposed goals of X3:TC and AP. With no plots to drive you, what point would there be in building that giant microchip complex? Having some real plots would solve 98% of my remaining issues with X4.
I disagree. The plots only entertain you until they are over. Not saying they wouldn't be nice to have, but what really is missing from the universe is life, characteristics and variations. Every single npc, every other ship, mission, almost every sector is just a clone of each other. Landing on stations is all the same because of the dock module (in contrast to X-Btf - X2, where every station type had different docking interriors and was a joy to discover and see them all).
There is no point in discovering everything if everything is the same. Hell, even vanguard-sentinel ships have the same models.
OP. You got your answer here.

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by sintri » Thu, 7. Mar 19, 03:45

How did you get 20 hours? The entire story was hope you somehow stumbled upon scanning random stations for a red blip till find a space station and rescue a Boron. Game pretty much ended right there, sure you could make more money but you could pretty much never lose money, also sure you could conquer the universe but it's just a matter of zerging it to death and then afterwards what then, you've got nothing left to buy stuff from you. 3 least gave you a semblance of power, with 4 your capitals will easily enough get destroyed a few small ships so in the end it's just a matter of spamming as much numbers as you can. No story, no real sense of accomplishment, the economy can't even provide any sense of enjoyment. Only thing now is log on every 20 hours for some skins, and that'll only go so far.

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by pvarn » Thu, 7. Mar 19, 05:34

I see this kind of post in every game title forum. The full time gamers who get all they want out of the game in the first few days. I'm a more leisurely player just seeing the war start to cook off on the edges of the map and the economy heating up in 2.0.
I have several weeks into the game and see many more weeks ahead of me.
-Pv-

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Warnoise » Thu, 7. Mar 19, 08:11

The problem of why some people feel the game ends quickly while at the same time others who spent 200+ hours and still enjoying it, is how badly balanced the game is.

By balance i mean here, the balance between play styles.

Those who play X4 for the "conquest" and combat part of the game they will be disappointed. Since there is simply nothing drives the player to conquer. So combat driven gameplay can described as below:
1-Quickly explore galaxy (can be done in literally 30~40 minutes)
2-Do few missions until get enough for trader (20~40 minutes)
3-Launch auto traders, Amass enough money to buy fully equipped M ship (3~4 hours)
4-Buy a destroyer and Kill xenons (5~8 hours?)

And that's it. By point 4, I think many people get bored. There is nothing worth to drive people to go past point 4. Conquer xenon sector? and? For what purpose?
Destroy X faction? again, for what purpose? It has more drawbacks than positives.
Amass giga army? again, why? fully equipped 4~6 destroyers and a dozen of fighters can clear any sector with no goal other than self satisfaction.

If you want to go the trading route, this is where maybe the game gets more enjoyable. But it revolves around spamming SETA and watch your stations pumping shitloads of money

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Graaf » Thu, 7. Mar 19, 08:53

Warnoise wrote:
Thu, 7. Mar 19, 08:11
If you want to go the trading route, this is where maybe the game gets more enjoyable. But it revolves around spamming SETA and watch your stations pumping shitloads of money
I prefer the Trade route but I haven't played since Xmas. It's just bad mechanics/UI/storage/trade offers/etc. I see no point installing the game again.

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Artean » Thu, 7. Mar 19, 10:43

Combat Wombat wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 22:53
The issue is X4 is missing the externally imposed goals of X3:TC and AP. With no plots to drive you, what point would there be in building that giant microchip complex? Having some real plots would solve 98% of my remaining issues with X4.
Far from it, in my case. Plots in X games have never interested me. I plan and execute my own goals, and that's where X titles shine.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move." - D.N.A

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by cheesemonkey » Thu, 7. Mar 19, 14:46

Warnoise wrote:
Thu, 7. Mar 19, 08:11

1-Quickly explore galaxy (can be done in literally 30~40 minutes)
I think I might be slow because it took me much much longer to discover all of the sector gates. I didn't make a b-line to doing that, but haven't looked at any online maps, even now at about 100 hours in there are at least a couple of gates that I haven't gone through yet. I have most of the map explored, but doing it again now it would be impossible for me to fly to every sector (even knowing where they are) and do a circuit of each one in 40 mins. Not sure how you got this number?

There are 48 sectors, this means you are flying an entire sector with all its stations in 50 seconds? Flying to just one station can take 50 seconds on its own.
Warnoise wrote:
Thu, 7. Mar 19, 08:11

2-Do few missions until get enough for trader (20~40 minutes)
3-Launch auto traders, Amass enough money to buy fully equipped M ship (3~4 hours)
4-Buy a destroyer and Kill xenons (5~8 hours?)
I get that these are all technically possible but as someone who hasn't played an X game for about 10 years, you need to be an expert at all the mechanics to achieve these numbers, that or just look up a speed guide (which you can basically do on any game to reduce the time played).

Also there seems to be a big jump in your list between buying an M and then buying a destroyer. I probably had a fully specced out M by about hour 10, but with about 100 hours now I am still reinvesting into stations without having bought my first destroyer yet.
Warnoise wrote:
Thu, 7. Mar 19, 08:11

And that's it. By point 4, I think many people get bored. There is nothing worth to drive people to go past point 4. Conquer xenon sector? and? For what purpose?
Destroy X faction? again, for what purpose? It has more drawbacks than positives.
Amass giga army? again, why? fully equipped 4~6 destroyers and a dozen of fighters can clear any sector with no goal other than self satisfaction.
I understand you obviously have frustrations with the game and I agree there is a few that need to be ironed out, but you are obviously looking for a different type of game than the X series? It is a universe sandbox with a working economy.

I don't see how conquering the universe in X series is any different than winning a game of civilization? Are you just looking for a splash screen to say "Well done"?

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Warnoise » Thu, 7. Mar 19, 16:07

cheesemonkey wrote:
Thu, 7. Mar 19, 14:46
Warnoise wrote:
Thu, 7. Mar 19, 08:11

1-Quickly explore galaxy (can be done in literally 30~40 minutes)
I think I might be slow because it took me much much longer to discover all of the sector gates. I didn't make a b-line to doing that, but haven't looked at any online maps, even now at about 100 hours in there are at least a couple of gates that I haven't gone through yet. I have most of the map explored, but doing it again now it would be impossible for me to fly to every sector (even knowing where they are) and do a circuit of each one in 40 mins. Not sure how you got this number?

There are 48 sectors, this means you are flying an entire sector with all its stations in 50 seconds? Flying to just one station can take 50 seconds on its own.
Warnoise wrote:
Thu, 7. Mar 19, 08:11

2-Do few missions until get enough for trader (20~40 minutes)
3-Launch auto traders, Amass enough money to buy fully equipped M ship (3~4 hours)
4-Buy a destroyer and Kill xenons (5~8 hours?)
I get that these are all technically possible but as someone who hasn't played an X game for about 10 years, you need to be an expert at all the mechanics to achieve these numbers, that or just look up a speed guide (which you can basically do on any game to reduce the time played).

Also there seems to be a big jump in your list between buying an M and then buying a destroyer. I probably had a fully specced out M by about hour 10, but with about 100 hours now I am still reinvesting into stations without having bought my first destroyer yet.
Warnoise wrote:
Thu, 7. Mar 19, 08:11

And that's it. By point 4, I think many people get bored. There is nothing worth to drive people to go past point 4. Conquer xenon sector? and? For what purpose?
Destroy X faction? again, for what purpose? It has more drawbacks than positives.
Amass giga army? again, why? fully equipped 4~6 destroyers and a dozen of fighters can clear any sector with no goal other than self satisfaction.
I understand you obviously have frustrations with the game and I agree there is a few that need to be ironed out, but you are obviously looking for a different type of game than the X series? It is a universe sandbox with a working economy.

I don't see how conquering the universe in X series is any different than winning a game of civilization? Are you just looking for a splash screen to say "Well done"?
Well it always took me about 45 min to explore (by that I mean just drop a satellite and move, not mapping it) that big loop alone shortens the exploration period by a huge a margin.

As about the second quote, In every playthrough I bought my first M ship within the first 3-5 hours of gameplay. Missions, selling claimed ships and trading are enough.

In my last walkthrough (1.5) i bought my first Odysseus at about 10th hour.

As about the last quote, in civilization the goal is clear, you have enemies who are actively advancing and working towards the same goal, basically they in a race against you. so destroying them is the only choice. As about X foundation, there is absolutely no benefit in destroying them.

Again, you are talking about trading and investing on stations etc/.....that is the essence of my previous post. People who want more combat oriented can't enjoy it the same as the people who play trading oriented game.

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Kadatherion » Thu, 7. Mar 19, 16:57

Warnoise wrote:
Thu, 7. Mar 19, 16:07
Again, you are talking about trading and investing on stations etc/.....that is the essence of my previous post. People who want more combat oriented can't enjoy it the same as the people who play trading oriented game.
Actually, I kind of disagree: the game has relatively little to offer to trading oriented players as well, when compared to previous iterations. One issue here is the economy and trading scripts still don't work as intended, but that's something that's hopefully going to be finally fixed in the coming months, finding a decent balance, plus they were pretty much broken in X3's early days as well. The other issue is... why make money? My playstyle in X has always been peaceful trading in the beginning (while fightining Xenons and the like to pass the time and maybe open up better trade routes), with the real combat only in the late game, when basically I'm ready to "finish" the game and just want some mindless sandbox fun with the toys I spent so much time to slowly afford/build. Fact is, there were lots of reasons to make money: in the beginning it's affording that new, bigger, better, different ship/ship class for yourself, then it's building up your infastructure to kit out an entire fleet. This was the drive of it. In theory, it's here as well: but when there's so little diversity in the universe and assets, when even from a gameplay perspective all ships are quite same-y, that drive runs out of steam VERY soon.

It all comes down to content, be it galaxy size, ship/race variety, actual things to do and possible goals to set for yourself: even without taking plots into any consideration, there's far less of such content in X4 compared with X3. So, the average interest dies proportionally sooner. Sure, one could still spend hundreds of hours just watching numbers and issuing trade orders battling with the broken scripts and messy UI, I did so myself with ~130 hours by 1.5. But, on average, the appeal is far more short lived, you've seen everything there is to see way before that. I suppose watching - and influencing - the AI wars could be another interesting sandbox drive that's going to be unique for X4: and maybe it will. When faction wars will actually work for real.

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by GCU Grey Area » Thu, 7. Mar 19, 17:43

Kadatherion wrote:
Thu, 7. Mar 19, 16:57
The other issue is... why make money?
For me the motivation for making money from Trade & Build is to expand my war fleet to the point where I can invade Xenon sectors, demolish the shipyards with reasonable efficiency & make the universe that little bit safer for my stations & trade fleet. For me the Fight aspect of X4 isn't "late game... mindless sandbox fun" it's an important mid-game component to stop Xenon destroyers wrecking my stuff (or, almost as important, stuff belonging to my customers/suppliers). Over 200 hours into my current game & still have plenty to do.

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