Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

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tomchk
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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by tomchk » Thu, 3. Oct 19, 20:11

We need to come up with some more ideas that are this agreeable and easy for them to implement!

csaba
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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by csaba » Thu, 17. Oct 19, 14:38

While were are on simple changes.

As pirates cause a lot of issues (namely angering a whole faction at you) despite many attempts fixing this, how about a "Protection money" subscription at the pirate bases that basically makes your ships invalid targets for piracy?

I just find it silly when my 20 million Shuyaku drops it's freight for a SCA Kestrel just because I set global orders to comply to avoid said situations

AdrianB1
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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by AdrianB1 » Tue, 29. Oct 19, 22:40

I am coming back to this forum from time to time, but I cannot keep up with reading everything that was written; I own and I have played X2 and X3 in all variations and I do from time to time replay some X3's, but I was never attracted to the newer games in the series, they are technological more advanced but they seem pointless.

They miss a story. A good example is The Witcher 3, it has a great story, it plays like an interactive movie. X universe is like a sort of Battlestar Galactica, but with no story. It is a kindergarden sandbox where a kid can play ... alone. Fun for the first 5 minutes, boring for the rest of your life: it feels like you are the last living person in the universe and everybody else is a realistic looking robot. Fake. False.

In real life I am a sport pilot. I fly small planes, small enough that are fun to fly; not fully, official aerobatics because of legal restrictions in my country, but as much aerobatics I can pull without getting caught. Because of this, I cannot play flight sims (they feel retarded in comparison with the real thing), so space sims were my last flight game genre. This is why I loved X2 and X3 and this is why I am coming back, again and again, looking for something worth playing. And it is not there. In the world of planes where a cheap radio is $1000 and a good GA headset is $1000 (Bose A20), $50-100 for a good game is peanuts. Going back in time, I would pay $250 or more for the X3 series, that much joy it brought me in the past decade. But I see nothing worth paying for, not even $1. I am trying to convince my son (junior pilot too, just finished his flight school and now he is scheduling the exams for the license) to play space sims, but there is no current game to recommend.

So, going back to the point: bring a story. Make people live a fantasy, not play SimCity in space, or Master of Orion. Fun, in a way, but in no way close to X3. Make a story that requires 100 hours of meaningful play (not the weird farming for the Xenon Hub), eventually with a few twists that ensure replayability. A cinema ticket is $10 for 2 hours, nobody will pay $250 for a game directly, but with a great story many people will pay $50 for the equivalent of a season of a TV series. Good TV series can pull 5-8 good series (ex: House MD), a game can pull $400 from each fan and these people will be happy to pay for it. But make them happy to open the wallet and ask you to take their money. Sell them what they want.

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Nort The Fragrent
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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by Nort The Fragrent » Thu, 31. Oct 19, 06:07

I am knocking on the door with 60 Billion to spend, yet there is nothing of that value in the game.

Can I suggest some sweet huge value objectives to aim for with our bulging loot vaults.

A completely new set of personal station modules, these are to be extremely expensive and thus hard to get the loot for. ( game Objective )
Your new personalised station modules have opulence dripping from them indicating your massive wealth and game time.

Then a new range of vastly expensive ships you can dream for, Not battle ships or fighters, NO, high quality sport ships that only the very wealthy can afford. The Bugatti of the sky.

It would make a nice addition to the game, yet have little impact on the game mechanics.

Please give us something to strive for, as for the moment I am just building more stations and pilling in more and more loot, and do not know what for,,,,, !

:roll:

:gruebel:

Angsaar
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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by Angsaar » Fri, 1. Nov 19, 12:11

Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Thu, 31. Oct 19, 06:07
I am knocking on the door with 60 Billion to spend, yet there is nothing of that value in the game.

:roll:

:gruebel:
You old digi-materialist :P

More toys is all fine and dandy, but there has be more significant things to be introduced, like better rivals to keep the player in check.

I assume one of the Split families could act as such, but what I'd really like to see is player-sized companies as minor factions, evolving along with us. Some friendly, some unfriendly (maybe you piss some of them off stepping on their business, and some are just aggressive in nature and want to take our turf).

Now that the game is in much better technical shape and needs less ease of progression to help testing I hope Egosoft will turn the difficulty up :twisted:

xenon877
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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by xenon877 » Sat, 16. Nov 19, 10:09

sorry for lot of text, it was written in hope that someday at least part of bugs would be fixed,
Spoiler
Show
fight (1/10, including absence of fight missions and terrible fleet control)
the boarding ship (atlas) does not approach the distance of the ship and does not launch marines (manual flight is always required)
shortly after boarding, the ship information screen can no longer be seen on the ship until reload
Repairs and other drones are lost when the ship passes through the gate or / and then goes into travel mode.
after the boarding vessel's information does not work
L / XL ship overview locks up (cross lock still works) when clicks in repair section

No option to force keep battle drones, repair drones and fighters. (required separately)
the player cannot order subordinates recall and dock them (but the pilot can), but if the player orders the subordinates to dock and if the pilot recovers (with dock)
could get stuck because of ships in internal storage.

boarding forces defense mode turrets fires at the target, even if not required by the player and no turrets/weapons left on the target,
that is, it could easily kill the target with the boarding team without player's order.
Drones and battle fighters constantly mess with the boarding process (they probably try to help, but this help is not needed).

Xenon and khaak fighters created only in the player sector and always both at the same time, which makes him more stupid

Internal storage ships are not shown on the area / sector map, so the only way for the player to find the ship is to traverse all their ships.

Even 15 kilometers from the Allied Station is not enough for the carrier (when player is in sector) to prevent incidents that lead to war with Allies.
(Fleet fighters flying with the enemy to the Allied station misfire there, so the station becomes enemy, and then all carrier fighters will attack it)
In fact, there is no tactical control over the fleet: the fighters undock even if they explicitly requested dock and wait (and were destroyed by the station towers)
or simply hunt alone in a friendly station and turn a friendly station into an enemy and die there. (no range control)
they ignore the dock command (it constantly changes to attack ...) and runs away not to the carrier but to the "friendly" station, even away from the carrier and cannot repair damage.

no turrets selection near the cursor (5 km from the tower's range) (i.e. you see something fires there on player ship, but you can't select it (traversing 1000 surface elements on a very large station is not a option).

needs key binding to allow launching of missiles (turrets) (or they use up all the ammo quite quickly), key binding to
1. enable launching of defense drones (three modes: Anchored, Defend, Attack All Enemies)
and two / three additional keys to launch different fighter groups (M, S, bombers)
key combination for the quick select fighter group and to give orders (for example, target attack or selected retreat)
and also limit max range for drones, S fighters, and M fighters.

no damage / ammunition percentage selection at the time the fighter must retreat to the carrier for repair / rearm (as early fighters tend to flee to Allied station,
and do it too late).

the recall works terrible in battle conditions, often waiting for the farthest fighter / drone, all hanging near the enemy station and dead,

should be an option to avoid enemy stations, another option to avoid ships that are too slow to intercept the fighter (probably larger than the ship)
and this option should be enabled / disabled for the selected group,
the actual control of the selected group is bad: failing to select if the drone falls within the rectangle.
There is no way to cancel the intermediate order of the entire selection.
just for each figher at one time.

if XL ships have M subordinates, and those have S subordinates, XL vessels will leave the sector without waiting for S subsubordites.

There is no way to know how far subordinates should move away from the protected object.
devolepers could just test before release the game: place 1 xl ship 10 km from xenon station with subordinates: 3 m ships (with s docks), each one must have two s ships as subordinates.
and try to prevent them from dying with the command interface only (assuming that ship xl would be attacked only by P and smaller ships, ie the entire xenon ship L / XL was destroyed by other forces)
and then try to move xl ship, especially outside the sector.

There is also no way to select the Z direction (height) on the map, which at some point is important.

xl_carrier / xl_supply_ship cannot update the software, but it is available on the screen of supply ship.
xl_carrier / xl_supply_ship cannot have a special commercial fleet that will supply goods for replenishment / repair.
unable to save replenishment configuration for future use for ship type,
You cannot select multiple ships and replenish all with the same configuration without clicking each one.
that is, although fleet management is good for the alpha phase development game, it is terrible for the final game.

after recall, subordinates must fly immediately in the carrier's gravity field (if the carrier wants to accelerate travel speed),
and whoever approaches the dock must dock first, now most of the subordinates do nothing and waiting for farest one to dock.
worse if any enemy ships flying on a nearby highway, they will all leave (in the case of the player in control of the carrier).
drone repair should never be in the carrier's gravitational field (exception, supply_ship repairs another large ship),

Currently, both drone repair and drone construction (for builders) are being lost, and so there is builders, who is very low on drones.
game don't even have the normal station guard command, patrollers tend to commit suicide at the enemy station in the sector,
and even limited-area patrol (several kilometers) would probably not respect the limitation when switching to attack mode.
For a better experience by default, the defender should strictly patrol only a small area around the defender and avoid larger objects.
(enemy stations, large enemy vessels) except when attacking defended objects.
station towers must be able to activate enemy mode and xenon station, and attacked merchants (and stations) must swap towers to attack enemy mode
while their engines are not repaired to a level of 60% each and they have not re-entered travel mode with at least 70%.
general in faction, if many stations have many defenders, some of them form large fleets
(I should point out that this should only happen if this fleet is large enough (~ 10 L / XL ships and their escorts), otherwise it is not forming)
the fleet must replenish and balance its escorts so that each ship L is well escorted, and then ...
fleet chose the best current task:
beleaguered defense station (9),
attack the enemy fleet within friendly (8) / enemy (3) space,
attack the enemy station within friendly (7) / enemy (1) space,
defend the gate exit in friendly (7) / enemy (5) space,
dismantle and return to the station guard ship to ship
replenish / repair / reinforce,
The priorities() that can be moved depend on the friendly ship loss of the fleet / station / gate position.

trade (5/10)
trade is still stucks when L / XL negotiates with S / M, which is within its internal storage.
(actually negotiate / transfer M to L, may fail if ship L has other ships in its internal storage, all part is very defective)

trade between ship L and M could happen, when they split up half sector - the drone travels half an hour.
Undocking the trade between two ships (L side) takes a long time (20 minutes) can be canceled manually.
Undocking the player's equipment bay/shipyard may teleport the ship away, and the ship will return to the exit at slow speed, and this cannot be canceled (ie critical undocking).

clustering for trade help in map view is very buggy simple lasso select(lasso from ms paint) would be much preferable.
It also incorrectly includes trading stations whose price is not good as the surrounding prices.
It would be great to also show that there are stations in the area whose business information is not updated (currently "-" if there are no other stations with such ware,
it would be better to keep that minus AFTER the best price even if other station exist to show that such station do exist).

it would be better if there was autofill for maximum buy / sell for the best product if you right click on the price,
and also supply / sell all separate orders
The ordering menu should be centralized so that the most frequent order is in this context, just below the mouse (ie for full shipping, it should focus on supplying / selling everyone to a specific store). construction depends on goods in transport)),
and to the player's station, it must be transferred, not marketed.

Crew transfer between ships is terrible.

I think the exchange / transfer menu should have filters from different categories (like people, missiles, food etc.)

Is is not possible in the game to trade with multiple selected ships with one trade command,
or with a commercial fleet (when, for example, XL_supply_ship has multiple M / S trading subordinates, which are used in final trading and goods warehousing)
game balance would probably require a reduction in internal ship storage, especially for M ships, which is currently the only thing that prevents the abuse of large internal ship storage,
This is a bug that delays or fails to transfer goods between XLcarrier / L and the M / S sent in this case.


the ship must have the option (actually on by default) to dock (preferably at the player / base station) when there is nothing to do, currently they get stuck in space waiting for pirates and obviously a good deal,
sometimes pirates come first.
More about bug: They block the docking area for large ships while they wait.


again trade/exchange stuck bugs:
1. No items available (item was destroyed or used by factory / shipyard)
2. between L / s ships, probably, because ships in internal store. This is mainly CRITICAL, as one of the ships could get stuck in the critical phase of the transfer.
3. Dock area blocked by S ships, station reporting, seeking good trade.
4. The building store is blocking the docking area.
5. long operations: L / M ships deal with mid-sector drones.
6. long docking CRITICAL: The ship is teleported to half of the sector just after docking, but is still trying to undock and slowly return to dock.
----
6 years have passed since the release of x-rebirth (the same game engine) and the trade/exchange stuck bug has not been fixed yet,
Is it very difficult to set a reasonable timeout (probably 5 minutes) for each action? and if the action timeout warns the player (same as the box found / under attack / police scan)
and allows the action to be aborted, which should include aborting any critical action and other maneuvers, also provide the player interface with an INGAME bug report.


building (4.5 / 10)
the store is destroyed very easily and magically unlimited and is not directed / displayed correctly on the map, the dock is not destructible,
The right way should be that build ship build(x4) or transforms(x-rebirth) itself into dock and container (which should be two first modules in build)
and these modules must be purchased by the ship itself
ie resources for the first weft modules, which should include dock (and large ships should be able to negotiate slowly with small docks) and container storage
(and if necessary, some module to build the station) is purchased by the builder (and the player always knows where the builder is and can provide resources),
and the builder creates these modules and should be free, all additional trade in building resources should be with the station itself,
and the station itself must be able to build itself (some builder module may be needed for this)

In large complexes, the interface becomes unusable, it is better to select the connection point first and the module to be inserted next and interface should allow to rotate it with the keys.
(obviously, only the allowed rotation for this connection point should be possible and in fact this greatly limits possible combinations)
(for example, the /space engineers/ interface is best, the only problem is that the player (or his ship) takes up space where the player wants to place something,
but if the virtual editor is not a problem)
also large complexes must be able to build in parallel (either by several builder ships, or by the station itself, or by some modules in the station it is capable of building)

The main bugs here are the indestructible / non-selectable build dock and at the same time easily destructible building storage but can be restored at no cost.
that is, you may lose the building mission because of a fighter, or you won't be able to destroy the new xenon station for several hours,
both are very bad,
and also additional entries in the trading menus (for build storage) are also bad.
station(or build ship before building) storage should be used for building.

the exceptionally rare station sells trade-restricted goods with another faction to its own commercial store (neither its sellers want to sell to it, nor store-building merchants don't want to buy it, prices allow it (selling price is minimal) , the construction price is a little more))
they just sat with utensils waiting for a better deal.

Sometimes small transports would forget to undock from the construction store and block the way for other transportation (there is no ship storage there).
Did developers try to dock manually (without pilot) with the building store(small ship / large ship?) how did it work for them?
the building store and its docking docking could actually block the actual docking of ship L (ie store exactly where the ship was supposed to dock at a station)

just remove it .... ....... build store for good("the best part is no part, the best process is no process"), the building process must use or construction ship store or station store, not some crappy buggy building store.
(Loss of 4 points in building category because "building store")

visual bug: It is not possible to fly through invisible areas of the building, especially near teladi trading station (in case the station is mostly (95%) destroyed by the xenon fleet,
but you still can't fly through destroyed pieces)

HQ Manager randomly disappears when player in same sector.
Sometimes npc builders have almost no build drones, which results in crazy build time,
and the builder cannot be overwritten after compilation starts, which is definitely a bug.



exploring (7/10)
Although the map is larger compared to x-rebirth, it is still much smaller (50%) than modded x3ap.
very limited rewards for exploring debris.
lockboxes teleports randomly (especially when ordered to collect) and disappears.
Ships cannot collect lasertowers, resource probes, satellites without manually control by player.
wrecks/game crazy physics prevent them from being explored properly.

missions (3/10)
no compaign battle missions and less than 1% in the argon / xenon war battle missions, the first mission against the unmobile / unmanned scout is just a joke.
The stupid compaign follow mission takes around hour and actually does not require anything to do.
very limited range, especially for construction / assembly fleet missions,
and very small rewards for them,
in fact, only the kind of mission with good reward is * station building *,
others who have better than nothing are:
1. return stolen (just because you can also easily get the ship as a reward)
2. food shortages, just in case there was a real food shortage, I saw when 70% of these missions were in the food or medicine producing sector (3 or more factories),
and without lack of food.
3. Station supply (which in case of error: if actual supply is not required (in 50% of cases)).

other missions are not rewarding enough, especially combat missions (and are exceptionally rare for acceptable opposing factions),
Worst of all, people find missions, because there is no interface to find(even on player stations) them and transfer them costs MUCH MORE than the mission pays.
The academy / school module needed for these missions and the proper tools to find people in your own company. the whole process seem middle age one, not 15k years in future.

bugs: war and allied defense platform building offers missions to build another defense platform in sectors owned by xenon,
but the mission do includes buying plot space (from xenon) and while the price is good (assuming the bug would be fixed) but could be better.

Key binding required:
to drop lasertower / mines (with auto repeat to drop in large quantities), how many requests to drop should be displayed on the screen)
to select which thing you want to drop
Cycling Defense Drone Mode: Docked, Automatic, Attack_enemy
cycling in small fighers mode:
Toggling other player group mode: (probably more keys required for custom player groups)

the ability to order the ship goes to restock and rearm, and SEPARATE access to the configuration that will be used for repair,
This order should work for multiple selected ships without additional menus. (setting usually set before battle)

performance issues: sometimes sun / planet in the background using 80% gpu features (when out of fps view)
gpu resources are leaking somewhere, after some time the game exits without gpu memory log message and after reloading performance always better than after 30 minutes.
game looks beta, and not worth the current cost.

Guys, if you unable to fix all bugs, you can at least put most(?script?) code (no graphics, no simulation) in some way free access like github,
which allows community to make suggestions for each line of code and patches and give real life rewards to those who fix game bugs.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by mr.WHO » Sat, 16. Nov 19, 17:54

Now that the roadmap is coming to completion, do you have any outline for post 3.0 updates?

nuitn0ire
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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by nuitn0ire » Wed, 27. Nov 19, 01:25

Is french voice acting planned ? I'am not sure to understand what I read everywhere..

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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by kroobzh » Fri, 3. Jan 20, 02:44

Hi, Egosoft. Will you add cabins to ships? For example, the engineering compartment, the captain’s cabin? This would make the ship feel large. Thanks.

CBJ
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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by CBJ » Fri, 3. Jan 20, 14:27

mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 16. Nov 19, 17:54
Now that the roadmap is coming to completion, do you have any outline for post 3.0 updates?
We are still very much working on the features for 3.0 and our plans for features beyond that are not yet concrete enough for us to post a roadmap.
nuitn0ire wrote:
Wed, 27. Nov 19, 01:25
Is french voice acting planned ? I'am not sure to understand what I read everywhere..
It is indeed planned, but I am not sure how far away we are from being able to add it to the game. I will try to find out.
kroobzh wrote:
Fri, 3. Jan 20, 02:44
Hi, Egosoft. Will you add cabins to ships? For example, the engineering compartment, the captain’s cabin? This would make the ship feel large. Thanks.
As mentioned in response to previous questions about this, it's relatively unlikely. There would need to be a strong gameplay reason for players to visit those areas, otherwise most people would go there once and never bother again, making it rather a waste creating them. And the problem with making a strong gameplay reason for players to go there is that is that not everyone wants to be forced to walk around to play a space game. In general, we currently feel that our time and resources are better spent on things that more people will see and interact with.

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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by mr.WHO » Fri, 3. Jan 20, 15:36

Instead of more ship interiors, I'd rather have improvements to existing:
1. More PHQ interiors for empire management
2. Npc crew uniforms for factions and player
3. More decorations like Nova hologram and Falcon sculpture.

tomchk
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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by tomchk » Fri, 3. Jan 20, 16:50

CBJ wrote:
Fri, 3. Jan 20, 14:27
As mentioned in response to previous questions about this, it's relatively unlikely. There would need to be a strong gameplay reason for players to visit those areas, otherwise most people would go there once and never bother again, making it rather a waste creating them. And the problem with making a strong gameplay reason for players to go there is that is that not everyone wants to be forced to walk around to play a space game. In general, we currently feel that our time and resources are better spent on things that more people will see and interact with.
This makes good sense. I don’t think new interiors are the highest priority yet, but here’s one gameplay idea that could use them (or existing areas/consoles): a way to help a large ship from the inside, such as speeding up repair of components or hull. This could be as simple as giving player a list of priorities for repair that player can order as they choose.

Longer term, perhaps selection of a turret’s target or more direct control of a turret could be added. Just some thoughts!

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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by Treebie » Sat, 4. Jan 20, 01:20

mr.WHO wrote:
Fri, 3. Jan 20, 15:36
Instead of more ship interiors, I'd rather have improvements to existing:
1. More PHQ interiors for empire management
2. Npc crew uniforms for factions and player
3. More decorations like Nova hologram and Falcon sculpture.
I agree with #1, following what CBJ said regarding it being useful for the player to continue going there. What interiors would you need for empire management? I think their map is the main feature they want you to use.

#2/#3 I wouldn't expect Egosoft to attack those until their core game is working correctly.
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mr.WHO
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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by mr.WHO » Sat, 4. Jan 20, 19:06

Treebie wrote:
Sat, 4. Jan 20, 01:20
mr.WHO wrote:
Fri, 3. Jan 20, 15:36
Instead of more ship interiors, I'd rather have improvements to existing:
1. More PHQ interiors for empire management
2. Npc crew uniforms for factions and player
3. More decorations like Nova hologram and Falcon sculpture.
I agree with #1, following what CBJ said regarding it being useful for the player to continue going there. What interiors would you need for empire management? I think their map is the main feature they want you to use.

#2/#3 I wouldn't expect Egosoft to attack those until their core game is working correctly.
1. Embassy - all friendy faction representatives in one place.
2. Black market - for all ilegal stuff and trdading options.
3. Bar - console with mass recruit and personell request (e.g. I need 10 " 5 star captains").
4. Training Academy - something like X3 marine barracs.
5. Showroom - special large size dock for player (and only player) ships to dock.
6. Command room - room with galaxy holographic map and various military/economy screens.
7. Player room - customizable player room where you can put decoration stuff like sculptures, plants, holograms.

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Re: Next steps in the evolution of X4: Foundations

Post by Treebie » Sat, 4. Jan 20, 20:18

mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 4. Jan 20, 19:06
1. Embassy - all friendy faction representatives in one place.
2. Black market - for all ilegal stuff and trdading options.
3. Bar - console with mass recruit and personell request (e.g. I need 10 " 5 star captains").
4. Training Academy - something like X3 marine barracs.
5. Showroom - special large size dock for player (and only player) ships to dock.
6. Command room - room with galaxy holographic map and various military/economy screens.
7. Player room - customizable player room where you can put decoration stuff like sculptures, plants, holograms.
I can get on board with this, especially #1, #3, #4. Black market could just be at the bar, as most NPC stations have them there.

I'm surprised when you install a dock at the PHQ you don't automatically get a bar section.
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