Are shipyards basically immortal now? (update: ACTUALLY NO, they are not)

[Wou]

Sounds like you may be experiencing a bug.

Xenon Shipyards (and Wharves) are absolutely not invulnerable.

huh
For me both the Shipyard and the solar power plant (with defense station) in the other subsector refused to blowup despite reaching 0%. On the other hand there was a defense station in both of the subsectors, and they both got destroyed with no problem.
I'll try take down the wharf, although it seems to have even more defenses then the shipyard had.

[Arvel]

Yeah, the Shipyards and Wharves are a real pain to kill, while the Defense Stations seem to enjoy the irony of being practically defenseless.

For your 0% stations, I'd try ordering your ships to focus fire on the specific module(s) that are still alive rather than the station itself. It might help them miss fewer shots and overcome the station's regen. If they still won't die then it's probably a bug of some kind.

[The_42nd_Element]

I guess the real question is: "What would we like to happen to Space Stations?"

Personally, I think any space force worth of its name would not destroy, but capture the station.

I think there should be two possible scenarios:
- Destroy the space station
- Capture the space station (I am talking about shipyards and wharves).

bot scenarios allowing to completely taking over a sector properly.

So what would a captured space station mean?

Nothing different from an uncaptured one. You still buy ships for money which goes away (and not back in your pocket). People need to get paid and since we don't have slavery, we can't have our cake and eat it too.

What do you think?

[Wou]

Xenon Shipyards (and Wharves) are absolutely not invulnerable.

You were right. I was wrong.

Lo and behold, the witch is dead:



But how could this happen? What caused this guy to come to wrong conclusions and make an ass out of himself?
Oh, I'm glad you asked.

See, turns out that when you expand the map listing of an station you get the list of the modules, and when you press T when hovering mouse over one you can target it


Which led me to this charming place:

Spoiler

Show

... yep, definitely can see a defence module there.

And by clicking at random at what looks like an empty space:

Spoiler

Show

my god, it's full of... invisible stuff.
After clicking blindly for a while, and managing to find and blow up all of the invisible items on both side of the invisible platform the whole thing reappeared for a split second and went kaboom for good.

In conclusion:
Destroying a module does not necessary destroy it submodules/subsystem, and even one "live" turret, shield, whatever is enough to mark the whole station as alive as well.

[Gadz]

Just to add to this discussion when I select my carrier and fleet and put them on patrol in XEN sectors, they end up finding targets that are not shown on the map and appear invisible and start attacking it. I am not present in the sector as these are my NPC ships. I left my PC on, came back a day later and they were still attacking it. Whatever it was.

[Axeface]

Xenon Shipyards (and Wharves) are absolutely not invulnerable.

You were right. I was wrong.

Lo and behold, the witch is dead:



But how could this happen? What caused this guy to come to wrong conclusions and make an ass out of himself?
Oh, I'm glad you asked.

See, turns out that when you expand the map listing of an station you get the list of the modules, and when you press T when hovering mouse over one you can target it


Which led me to this charming place:

Spoiler

Show

... yep, definitely can see a defence module there.

And by clicking at random at what looks like an empty space:

Spoiler

Show

my god, it's full of... invisible stuff.
After clicking blindly for a while, and managing to find and blow up all of the invisible items on both side of the invisible platform the whole thing reappeared for a split second and went kaboom for good.

In conclusion:
Destroying a module does not necessary destroy it submodules/subsystem, and even one "live" turret, shield, whatever is enough to mark the whole station as alive as well.

What about the build storage module? Have you checked in-sector?

Just to add to this discussion when I select my carrier and fleet and put them on patrol in XEN sectors, they end up finding targets that are not shown on the map and appear invisible and start attacking it. I am not present in the sector as these are my NPC ships. I left my PC on, came back a day later and they were still attacking it. Whatever it was.

Build Storage module?

[Wou]

What about the build storage module? Have you checked in-sector?

It got destroyed by my ships. Only build queue remained, but nothing was being actually produced.

[Axeface]

What about the build storage module? Have you checked in-sector?

It got destroyed by my ships. Only build queue remained, but nothing was being actually produced.

You saw it get destroyed in-sector? The build storage that floats far away from stations and doesnt show up on the map?

[Wou]

You saw it get destroyed in-sector? The build storage that floats far away from stations and doesnt show up on the map?

Huh, not 100% sure. Most of the combat happened when I was out of sector and only teleported when the station was at 0% but not dying.
But at some point a load of resources appeared.

[Gadz]

Xenon Shipyards (and Wharves) are absolutely not invulnerable.

You were right. I was wrong.

Lo and behold, the witch is dead:



But how could this happen? What caused this guy to come to wrong conclusions and make an ass out of himself?
Oh, I'm glad you asked.

See, turns out that when you expand the map listing of an station you get the list of the modules, and when you press T when hovering mouse over one you can target it


Which led me to this charming place:

Spoiler

Show

... yep, definitely can see a defence module there.

And by clicking at random at what looks like an empty space:

Spoiler

Show

my god, it's full of... invisible stuff.
After clicking blindly for a while, and managing to find and blow up all of the invisible items on both side of the invisible platform the whole thing reappeared for a split second and went kaboom for good.

In conclusion:
Destroying a module does not necessary destroy it submodules/subsystem, and even one "live" turret, shield, whatever is enough to mark the whole station as alive as well.

What about the build storage module? Have you checked in-sector?

Just to add to this discussion when I select my carrier and fleet and put them on patrol in XEN sectors, they end up finding targets that are not shown on the map and appear invisible and start attacking it. I am not present in the sector as these are my NPC ships. I left my PC on, came back a day later and they were still attacking it. Whatever it was.

Build Storage module?

Possibly but shouldn't my ships automatically target any remaining modules that are alive? Maybe they are but it is repairing faster then I can destroy them. Hard to believe when I have a carrier, 3 destroyers, 2 frigates and 4 heavy fighters though. All with guns (so they don't run out of missiles and just sit there). Also a heap of defence drones.

[Axeface]

You saw it get destroyed in-sector? The build storage that floats far away from stations and doesnt show up on the map?

Huh, not 100% sure. Most of the combat happened when I was out of sector and only teleported when the station was at 0% but not dying.
But at some point a load of resources appeared.

I'll make a video to show you what im talking about.

Possibly but shouldn't my ships automatically target any remaining modules that are alive? Maybe they are but it is repairing faster then I can destroy them. Hard to believe when I have a carrier, 3 destroyers, 2 frigates and 4 heavy fighters though. All with guns (so they don't run out of missiles and just sit there). Also a heap of defence drones.

The ones i've seen in game are indestructible. And yeh the AI shoots at them (and misses because they're hitbox is misaligned).

[Wou]

I'll make a video to show you what im talking about.

do you mean something like this:

Spoiler

Show

I saw one near the wharf, wasn't marked as anything and looks kidna civilian with the shopping cart logo so O assumed that's some weird bug.
Anyways the wharf got blown up without me attacking it.

[Axeface]

Yes thats it, every station in construction has one of those even your PHQ, they are hard to spot. Its where ships drop off stuff to the stations wares for construction, you can even try to dock with them. Here is a video https://youtu.be/m7HUqY8rE8A Youcan see the AI missing all the time even with missiles, which is probably an issue in itself.

My point is, is that station really destroyed? Is it going to rebuild because it has an indestructible build storage? The station in the video im about to post has infinite spawning drones, and a build storage, and the teladi have been wailing on it for an hour. I dont think it's a bug. All this stuff makes me want to not play the game, how can this be called anything near finished.

[Wou]

My point is, is that station really destroyed? Is it going to rebuild because it has an indestructible build storage? The station in the video im about to post has infinite spawning drones, and a build storage, and the teladi have been wailing on it for an hour. I dont think it's a bug. All this stuff makes me want to not play the game, how can this be called anything near finished.

After some time the icon has disappeared from the map, so I would assume and hope it's gone for good.
But we will see, I will update this thread if the Shipyard suddenly reappears or something.

[Axeface]

My point is, is that station really destroyed? Is it going to rebuild because it has an indestructible build storage? The station in the video im about to post has infinite spawning drones, and a build storage, and the teladi have been wailing on it for an hour. I dont think it's a bug. All this stuff makes me want to not play the game, how can this be called anything near finished.

After some time the icon has disappeared from the map, so I would assume and hope it's gone for good.
But we will see, I will update this thread if the Shipyard suddenly reappears or something.

Really? The station wreck icon disappeared? Im gonna have to sit here with seta on some more then and see what happens to the build storage.

[Wou]

Really? The station wreck icon disappeared? Im gonna have to sit here with seta on some more then and see what happens to the build storage.

Yes, it is gone. But while I was making sure that it really is, I found out that a new Xenon plot appeared (the plot map is a good way to find stations btw.), and there is a new construction site, with what looks like the storage nearby:

Spoiler

Show

I may actually let them deliver the supplies to see what they will build

edit: the icon on the map says "Defense Platform", I guess that's just their construction ship substitute?

[Arvel]

Xenon Shipyards (and Wharves) are absolutely not invulnerable.

You were right. I was wrong.

No worries. From the sounds of it you were definitely experiencing a bug of some kind. I don't believe Station Modules and the like are supposed to be invisible, unless the Xenon have developed a new kind of stealth technology.

Your current situation sounds like my status quo in Scale Plate Green - I have a Defense Station of my own built up, but every time I start destroying their last station they start construction of another one, which seems to be preventing me from actually claiming the sector. I'd try blockading the gate, but I'm not sure whether the construction ships are actually coming in through it, they may be spawning somewhere in-sector to keep me from being able to finish the Xenon off.

I played whack-a-mole with Xenon stations for a bit and eventually gave up. I'll probably roll back my save to before the invasion, since I can't seem to get any profitsss out of it.

[Hoshiqua]

I haven't read the entire thread but just to be clear - do you have to personally come and "finish the stations off" by finding the invisible modules or can your fleet take care of it somehow ? I've been trying to have a fleet destroy Xenon defense stations in a sector I'm trying to invade, but most of the stations stay on the map and very quickly rebuild if I stop shooting at them. But I suspect it might be due to me telling my ships to specifically target the station, maybe I need to let them choose their target so they start shooting at the invisible submodules ? Do I need to be in sector ?

[Wou]

I haven't read the entire thread but just to be clear - do you have to personally come and "finish the stations off" by finding the invisible modules or can your fleet take care of it somehow ? I've been trying to have a fleet destroy Xenon defense stations in a sector I'm trying to invade, but most of the stations stay on the map and very quickly rebuild if I stop shooting at them. But I suspect it might be due to me telling my ships to specifically target the station, maybe I need to let them choose their target so they start shooting at the invisible submodules ? Do I need to be in sector ?

My ships were attacking the station for quite a while and didn't managed to finish it off. My guess would be since the module itself counts as destroyed and only the little things attached to it still exists your ships won't target the module at all, but maybe letting them go free can be a way to go, worth testing I guess.

[Gadz]

Xenon Shipyards (and Wharves) are absolutely not invulnerable.

You were right. I was wrong.

Lo and behold, the witch is dead:



But how could this happen? What caused this guy to come to wrong conclusions and make an ass out of himself?
Oh, I'm glad you asked.

See, turns out that when you expand the map listing of an station you get the list of the modules, and when you press T when hovering mouse over one you can target it


Which led me to this charming place:

Spoiler

Show

... yep, definitely can see a defence module there.

And by clicking at random at what looks like an empty space:

Spoiler

Show

my god, it's full of... invisible stuff.
After clicking blindly for a while, and managing to find and blow up all of the invisible items on both side of the invisible platform the whole thing reappeared for a split second and went kaboom for good.

In conclusion:
Destroying a module does not necessary destroy it submodules/subsystem, and even one "live" turret, shield, whatever is enough to mark the whole station as alive as well.

What about the build storage module? Have you checked in-sector?

Just to add to this discussion when I select my carrier and fleet and put them on patrol in XEN sectors, they end up finding targets that are not shown on the map and appear invisible and start attacking it. I am not present in the sector as these are my NPC ships. I left my PC on, came back a day later and they were still attacking it. Whatever it was.

Build Storage module?

So I went to the location that my ships have been attacking for days and found this. I cannot target it. I can fire and see it hit.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2u3v3w2.png


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