A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

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MKL81
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A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by MKL81 » Wed, 3. Apr 24, 01:40

Question is simple, but haven't found any solution or mod to help me with this task. Basically, how Traders prioritize their traders is that they search for most lucrative trades within certain limitations given by player i.e. Blacklists. Now if we have an Equipment dock that has vast storage space, it can swallow tons of resources and still cry for more and more, effectively starving other stations like Wharfs or Shipyards, because all of my Traders will favour the ED. Here comes the problem - it is infuriating trying to kickstart faction's economy when they cannot build ships to defend themselves and trade. This happened to me frequently for example in ZYA territory, where ED has TONS of resources, like 35k hull parts and 4-5k Weapon Parts, while Wharfs have almost none of it. Is there a way to prioritize or exclude stations?

oddgit
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by oddgit » Wed, 3. Apr 24, 01:50

Other than blacklisting the sector from activities so it ignores everything in that sector, you cant just exclude a station, which is a bummer. Because excluding specific stations would be super helpful in most of my games.

Koizuki
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by Koizuki » Wed, 3. Apr 24, 03:24

Yeah, I don't think there's any way to exclude just a single station, but that scenario you have sounds very curious to me.
ED's I wouldn't expect to drain through resources quite as fast as Wharves and Shipyards, so they would fill up eventually... And even if it doesn't, at some point it gets full enough that its price should fall below the more starved Wharves and SY's, at which point your autotraders should start delivering to them instead, no?

Otherwise, if you are specifically trying to help boost a particular Wharf/SY you could ditch autotrading altogether and use Repeat Orders to forcefully funnel resources over to them.

MKL81
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by MKL81 » Wed, 3. Apr 24, 11:40

Koizuki wrote:
Wed, 3. Apr 24, 03:24
Yeah, I don't think there's any way to exclude just a single station, but that scenario you have sounds very curious to me.
ED's I wouldn't expect to drain through resources quite as fast as Wharves and Shipyards, so they would fill up eventually... And even if it doesn't, at some point it gets full enough that its price should fall below the more starved Wharves and SY's, at which point your autotraders should start delivering to them instead, no?

Otherwise, if you are specifically trying to help boost a particular Wharf/SY you could ditch autotrading altogether and use Repeat Orders to forcefully funnel resources over to them.
In the long run it might actually fill both EDs that are in ZYA, so that they would start doing Wharfs and Shipyards, but time is for the Split is pretty important since they have so many connections with the Xenon sectors and also do fighting with ARG, coming from 11th Hour sector. I have just checked and one ED has 36k of Hull Parts, the other one has 42k! Both Wharfs? like 600-700 units of Hull Parts. That is insane.

oddgit
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by oddgit » Wed, 3. Apr 24, 17:36

I want to use it to exclude supply and trade hubs from other hubs and traders. If you have a supply hub overlap they just endlessly send stuff to each other. hah

Koizuki
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by Koizuki » Wed, 3. Apr 24, 18:22

MKL81 wrote:
Wed, 3. Apr 24, 11:40
I have just checked and one ED has 36k of Hull Parts, the other one has 42k! Both Wharfs? like 600-700 units of Hull Parts. That is insane.
That sounds like a pretty insane difference; What are their buy prices like? With that large of a difference I would've imagined that the price for hull parts would be almost at maximum, unless the Wharves only have enough capacity for like 1000 units total. Normally I'd expect that the Wharves would be buying for higher, and the autotraders would automatically service them over the ED at this point because of higher profit.
oddgit wrote:
Wed, 3. Apr 24, 17:36
I want to use it to exclude supply and trade hubs from other hubs and traders. If you have a supply hub overlap they just endlessly send stuff to each other. hah
In my game I have a network of trade stations acting as my supply line, such that I'd always be within 5 sectors of my resources from anywhere in the galaxy, which means each station is usually within range of 2~4 others so they specifically can supply each other as I siphon resources off any of them. This works great for me, but I haven't seen them only shuttling resources between them... In my experience they will still sell to NPC stations too if they are buying for higher prices.

oddgit
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by oddgit » Wed, 3. Apr 24, 23:42

Koizuki wrote:
Wed, 3. Apr 24, 18:22
MKL81 wrote:
Wed, 3. Apr 24, 11:40
I have just checked and one ED has 36k of Hull Parts, the other one has 42k! Both Wharfs? like 600-700 units of Hull Parts. That is insane.
That sounds like a pretty insane difference; What are their buy prices like? With that large of a difference I would've imagined that the price for hull parts would be almost at maximum, unless the Wharves only have enough capacity for like 1000 units total. Normally I'd expect that the Wharves would be buying for higher, and the autotraders would automatically service them over the ED at this point because of higher profit.
oddgit wrote:
Wed, 3. Apr 24, 17:36
I want to use it to exclude supply and trade hubs from other hubs and traders. If you have a supply hub overlap they just endlessly send stuff to each other. hah
In my game I have a network of trade stations acting as my supply line, such that I'd always be within 5 sectors of my resources from anywhere in the galaxy, which means each station is usually within range of 2~4 others so they specifically can supply each other as I siphon resources off any of them. This works great for me, but I haven't seen them only shuttling resources between them... In my experience they will still sell to NPC stations too if they are buying for higher prices.
Do you just manually set your stations buy prices to really low? I never thought to do that. I use a lot of central hubs for mining resources and noticed them shuffling stuff between stations. I dont care if my ships go to factories, i just dont want things going from hub to hub, hub to factories and hub to npc is fine.

Koizuki
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by Koizuki » Thu, 4. Apr 24, 00:12

Honestly, I try as much as possible to leave the pricing and storage allocations to auto. I've only intervened a handful of times by manually locking in prices, and that was onle when I was doing the big initial expansion throughout the galaxy to build those trade stations to begin with, and i had to forcefully shuttle all of my TER resources out from Saturn 1 to Segaris (where I had my first trade station) then to Second Contact (where I had the TER<->Commonwealth trade station so I could distribute from there.) If I didn't do that then it significantly slowed my resource flow because TER would keep buying them up before my transports could move them out.

Specifically, I have trade stations/hubs in Second Contact II, Pious Mists II, Silent Witness I, Two Grand, Heretic's End, and Segaris. For this network, I've assigned each of them 5 Boas and 2 Shuyakus, with the Boas restricted to internal trading only (to balance resources between the hubs and my factories quickly) and the Shuyakus are allowed to trade with whoever they want, all managed by each station's manager. Set up like this, my hubs are usually pretty good at balancing their own wares out, and the Shuyakus may either pitch in to this effort if I suddenly have a huge influx/expenditure at one hub, or they'll go around selling resources from their hubs to the NPC's (I've seen my Pious Mists station Shuyaku sell stuff to the HOP Wharf, for example, then upon delivery decides it needs to send some goods over to my Second Contact hub next.)

oddgit
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by oddgit » Thu, 4. Apr 24, 08:01

Neat, Ill give it another shot, I always try hard to have the hubs not overlap, but the factories are all good.
I usually do Saturn 1 and Hat I or III for the mining and supply hubs.

Thanks for your input! i really appreciate it.

MKL81
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by MKL81 » Thu, 4. Apr 24, 13:01

Koizuki wrote:
Wed, 3. Apr 24, 18:22
That sounds like a pretty insane difference; What are their buy prices like? With that large of a difference I would've imagined that the price for hull parts would be almost at maximum, unless the Wharves only have enough capacity for like 1000 units total. Normally I'd expect that the Wharves would be buying for higher, and the autotraders would automatically service them over the ED at this point because of higher profit.
This has changed in the meantime as I have carried out a diff strategy - my Finished Goods Autotraders are now solely dedicated to Wharfs and Shipyards in ZYA. I have set their anchor spaces to the sectors in which the Wharfs and Shipyards are, since EDs are in diff sectors. Then I have changed their behavior to sell only in the anchor space (zero gates travel) and 4-5 gates to buy resources. This is not ideal solution as i.e. Hull Parts are needed for Weapon Components, and now I'm taking most of them directly to production, so scarce of Weapon Comps. I might have another trader get weapon parts from other factions though...
Still, the prices are weird:
  • The Wharf in Wretches Skies V has 5.6K of Hull Parts, has half the bar filled in the station view, so I assume it requires around 12k total. The buy price is 214 Kr.
  • The ED in Family Zhin has 33k Hull Parts and the bar is filled by about 2/3. I assume it requires total of about 50k. The buy price is 226 Kr.
Why is that the ED has so much parts, the bar is filled more, but still pays more than Wharf? Is the Wharf manager so much of a cheap bastard or what? :D
Is the price only calculated from the amount missing to total qty, not how much they already have vs how much is required?

GCU Grey Area
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by GCU Grey Area » Thu, 4. Apr 24, 13:49

MKL81 wrote:
Thu, 4. Apr 24, 13:01
Still, the prices are weird:
  • The Wharf in Wretches Skies V has 5.6K of Hull Parts, has half the bar filled in the station view, so I assume it requires around 12k total. The buy price is 214 Kr.
  • The ED in Family Zhin has 33k Hull Parts and the bar is filled by about 2/3. I assume it requires total of about 50k. The buy price is 226 Kr.
Why is that the ED has so much parts, the bar is filled more, but still pays more than Wharf? Is the Wharf manager so much of a cheap bastard or what? :D
Is the price only calculated from the amount missing to total qty, not how much they already have vs how much is required?
May look weird because prices are affected by incoming ships carrying cargo that has not yet arrived.

For example, in my current game if I arrange a delivery of a full cargo of 2500 hull parts to the PAR wharf it shifts the price from 200cr to 160cr. This price change occurs as soon as the trade is confirmed - the ship hasn't even picked up that cargo from my HQ yet. Since this is trade between the player & an NPC station that quantity is shown in green in station info. However that is not shown for trades between NPC ships & stations.

Suspect this may be why there's an apparent disparity between prices & quantities at the stations in your game - i.e. wharf currently has more inbound hull parts on NPC freighters than the ED, pushing the price down below that of the ED, even though the current stock level & available capacity might suggest that the price at the wharf should be higher.

MKL81
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by MKL81 » Thu, 4. Apr 24, 16:34

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Thu, 4. Apr 24, 13:49
May look weird because prices are affected by incoming ships carrying cargo that has not yet arrived.

For example, in my current game if I arrange a delivery of a full cargo of 2500 hull parts to the PAR wharf it shifts the price from 200cr to 160cr. This price change occurs as soon as the trade is confirmed - the ship hasn't even picked up that cargo from my HQ yet. Since this is trade between the player & an NPC station that quantity is shown in green in station info. However that is not shown for trades between NPC ships & stations.

Suspect this may be why there's an apparent disparity between prices & quantities at the stations in your game - i.e. wharf currently has more inbound hull parts on NPC freighters than the ED, pushing the price down below that of the ED, even though the current stock level & available capacity might suggest that the price at the wharf should be higher.
I think you might be right here. I loaded the same save once more and indeed there was inbound shipment of ~1,3k of hull parts which would make the stock availability % slightly higher than the ED.

Koizuki
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by Koizuki » Thu, 4. Apr 24, 19:14

Yeah, it sounds like it is all working as intended then. ~12k total Hull Parts storage on a Wharf sounds reasonable since they have so many other wares to also store, and the remaining ~6k can be supplied by the other NPC traders since thery are all also trying to make money.
Unfortunately sometimes they come from halfway across the galaxy so they may take a while to arrive. Anyone who's built a station and sees an NPC 30+ minutes away show up with a sell order understands... That and some of those NPC's might not ever actually make it to delivery between potential Pirate raids and Xenon attacks destroying them while they are in transit. This could lead to those Wharves seeming like they are never getting supplied, but the NPC's are trying. Only way around this is to secure the routes leading to them so they can make it all the way to the Wharf safely, or manually supply them yourself.

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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by Ketraar » Thu, 4. Apr 24, 19:48

MKL81 wrote:
Wed, 3. Apr 24, 01:40
Question is simple, but haven't found any solution or mod to help me with this task. Basically, how Traders prioritize their traders is that they search for most lucrative trades within certain limitations given by player i.e. Blacklists. Now if we have an Equipment dock that has vast storage space, it can swallow tons of resources and still cry for more and more, effectively starving other stations like Wharfs or Shipyards, because all of my Traders will favour the ED. Here comes the problem - it is infuriating trying to kickstart faction's economy when they cannot build ships to defend themselves and trade. This happened to me frequently for example in ZYA territory, where ED has TONS of resources, like 35k hull parts and 4-5k Weapon Parts, while Wharfs have almost none of it. Is there a way to prioritize or exclude stations?
You can just define the storage allocation this should define how much the stations will want to buy.
If you want to completely shut off a station or a ware from your traders just create a trade rule that excludes your faction, or any faction you don't want that station/ware to trade with.

MFG

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MKL81
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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by MKL81 » Thu, 4. Apr 24, 22:27

Koizuki wrote:
Thu, 4. Apr 24, 19:14
Yeah, it sounds like it is all working as intended then (...)
Yes, maybe it is so, still strange that EDs were given priority nonetheless before I've changed my Autotraders' setup.
Ketraar wrote:
Thu, 4. Apr 24, 19:48
You can just define the storage allocation this should define how much the stations will want to buy.
If you want to completely shut off a station or a ware from your traders just create a trade rule that excludes your faction, or any faction you don't want that station/ware to trade with.

MFG

Ketraar
Those stations aren't mine, they are managed by Zyarth NPCs, I'm just trying to help their economy ;) ZYA/FAF are the ones notoriously underperforming when compared to others in general.

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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by Koizuki » Thu, 4. Apr 24, 22:42

MKL81 wrote:
Thu, 4. Apr 24, 22:27
Yes, maybe it is so, still strange that EDs were given priority nonetheless before I've changed my Autotraders' setup.
It's less that the ED's were given priority, and moreso just that each time your traders tried to find a good trade offer, the ED had the higher price because of its higher ware storage for those goods for reasons already discussed.
Can you monitor how quickly that ED is burning through Hull Parts or whatever other goods you're trying to send to the Wharves instead? I can't see how the ED would not eventually get filled up to force its price lower than the Wharf unless there's some massive fleets that are constantly going over there to repair. Meanwhile the Wharf should be continuously producing ships, so it should naturally be burning through its stockpiles pretty quickly with how hard ZYA space gets hammered.

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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by Ketraar » Thu, 4. Apr 24, 22:50

MKL81 wrote:
Thu, 4. Apr 24, 22:27
Those stations aren't mine, they are managed by Zyarth NPCs, I'm just trying to help their economy ;) ZYA/FAF are the ones notoriously underperforming when compared to others in general.
I see then the best way to do it is to set up a small trading outpost, assign a few traders to only trade within system/sector and have other traders import the wares. You can set trade rules for that station to only trade (sell) with ZYA.

MFG

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Re: A way to exclude stations for Autotrader?

Post by MKL81 » Mon, 8. Apr 24, 17:15

Koizuki wrote:
Thu, 4. Apr 24, 22:42
It's less that the ED's were given priority, and moreso just that each time your traders tried to find a good trade offer, the ED had the higher price because of its higher ware storage for those goods for reasons already discussed.
Can you monitor how quickly that ED is burning through Hull Parts or whatever other goods you're trying to send to the Wharves instead? I can't see how the ED would not eventually get filled up to force its price lower than the Wharf unless there's some massive fleets that are constantly going over there to repair. Meanwhile the Wharf should be continuously producing ships, so it should naturally be burning through its stockpiles pretty quickly with how hard ZYA space gets hammered.
Not really in the mood to investigate so much, after all, I have changed the behaviour of my traders in the meantime.
Ketraar wrote:
Thu, 4. Apr 24, 22:50
I see then the best way to do it is to set up a small trading outpost, assign a few traders to only trade within system/sector and have other traders import the wares. You can set trade rules for that station to only trade (sell) with ZYA.

MFG

Ketraar
This is also doable and might be some sort of solution.

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