Are shipyards basically immortal now? (update: ACTUALLY NO, they are not)

[ApoxNM]

Any mod yet, to fix this?

[Gabeux]

When OOS (Out-of-sector, meaning you are in a different sector from the one the station under attack is in), stations don't die, because their individual modules aren't destroyed. In order for a station to be destroyed, it's individual modules (seen on the map window object list) have to be destroyed. Bringing it down to 0% hull has no effect.
They usually regen back to 50% after reaching 20% Hull or so. Eventually they stop regenerating like that, but may take getting close to destroying it two or three times. The weird things really is when they go below 20% hull and previously destroyed modules just pop back into existance.

Hm, now this is interesting.

So there has been 3 days, quite a few hours of playtime has passed + extra some from SETA, and the Xenon Shipyard is still at 0% hull, not destroyed but apparently not rebuilding itself either
img taken just now:

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To make things more interesting the other invincible station I brought down to 0%, SPP in the other Scale Plate Green got back to full health in like an hour or so.
So did I encounter a bug that prevents a station that should regenerate from regenerating, or is it all even more mechanically confusing?

[SpaceCake]

Once the shipyards become vulnerable in the future, how's a faction going to be able to rebuild? It'd be cool if the factions have a contingency plan and build a new station in the ass end of nowhere, then they'd slowly amass their fleet for one big push to reclaim territories.

[Solflame]

If I remember right, they launch construction ships and filled freighters from planets, basically. Which is the justification for "they get a free construction ship and some freighters full of enough supplies to build some stations, as well as a small defense force".

[Arvel]

Sounds like you may be experiencing a bug.

Xenon Shipyards (and Wharves) are absolutely not invulnerable. They're just a pain in the butt to destroy because of their repair rate. I destroyed the ones in Scale Plate Green myself. When destroyed the target vanishes and they disappear from the map.
Here's proof : https://youtu.be/huiN0feqgpU

Unfortunately, you still may not be able to actually claim the sector: What appears to happen is that as soon as you start destroying their last station, the Xenon instantly start building a new Defense Platform in the sector, which appears to keep you from ever being able to capture the sector, like a never-ending game of whack-a-mole.

Edit: Something I also noticed, but neglected to show during the video clip I made, is that if the last module of a station is located far away from the station plot's center the AI has trouble hitting it. They'll just shoot at the empty space in the center of the build plot, letting the station regenerate.

To get around this particular AI bug, open the map and expand the station in the Item list and then select and target the module itself. If you haven't scanned it it'll probably show as "???" but any non-destroyed modules will be listed. Press T to target the module itself with your ship and then order your ships to attack it, rather than the station. That'll fix their aim and allow you to finish the station off.

[Wou]

Sounds like you may be experiencing a bug.

Xenon Shipyards (and Wharves) are absolutely not invulnerable.

huh
For me both the Shipyard and the solar power plant (with defense station) in the other subsector refused to blowup despite reaching 0%. On the other hand there was a defense station in both of the subsectors, and they both got destroyed with no problem.
I'll try take down the wharf, although it seems to have even more defenses then the shipyard had.

[Arvel]

Yeah, the Shipyards and Wharves are a real pain to kill, while the Defense Stations seem to enjoy the irony of being practically defenseless.

For your 0% stations, I'd try ordering your ships to focus fire on the specific module(s) that are still alive rather than the station itself. It might help them miss fewer shots and overcome the station's regen. If they still won't die then it's probably a bug of some kind.

[The_42nd_Element]

I guess the real question is: "What would we like to happen to Space Stations?"

Personally, I think any space force worth of its name would not destroy, but capture the station.

I think there should be two possible scenarios:
- Destroy the space station
- Capture the space station (I am talking about shipyards and wharves).

bot scenarios allowing to completely taking over a sector properly.

So what would a captured space station mean?

Nothing different from an uncaptured one. You still buy ships for money which goes away (and not back in your pocket). People need to get paid and since we don't have slavery, we can't have our cake and eat it too.

What do you think?

[Wou]

Xenon Shipyards (and Wharves) are absolutely not invulnerable.

You were right. I was wrong.

Lo and behold, the witch is dead:



But how could this happen? What caused this guy to come to wrong conclusions and make an ass out of himself?
Oh, I'm glad you asked.

See, turns out that when you expand the map listing of an station you get the list of the modules, and when you press T when hovering mouse over one you can target it


Which led me to this charming place:

Spoiler

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... yep, definitely can see a defence module there.

And by clicking at random at what looks like an empty space:

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my god, it's full of... invisible stuff.
After clicking blindly for a while, and managing to find and blow up all of the invisible items on both side of the invisible platform the whole thing reappeared for a split second and went kaboom for good.

In conclusion:
Destroying a module does not necessary destroy it submodules/subsystem, and even one "live" turret, shield, whatever is enough to mark the whole station as alive as well.

[Gadz]

Just to add to this discussion when I select my carrier and fleet and put them on patrol in XEN sectors, they end up finding targets that are not shown on the map and appear invisible and start attacking it. I am not present in the sector as these are my NPC ships. I left my PC on, came back a day later and they were still attacking it. Whatever it was.

[Axeface]

Xenon Shipyards (and Wharves) are absolutely not invulnerable.

You were right. I was wrong.

Lo and behold, the witch is dead:



But how could this happen? What caused this guy to come to wrong conclusions and make an ass out of himself?
Oh, I'm glad you asked.

See, turns out that when you expand the map listing of an station you get the list of the modules, and when you press T when hovering mouse over one you can target it


Which led me to this charming place:

Spoiler

Show

... yep, definitely can see a defence module there.

And by clicking at random at what looks like an empty space:

Spoiler

Show

my god, it's full of... invisible stuff.
After clicking blindly for a while, and managing to find and blow up all of the invisible items on both side of the invisible platform the whole thing reappeared for a split second and went kaboom for good.

In conclusion:
Destroying a module does not necessary destroy it submodules/subsystem, and even one "live" turret, shield, whatever is enough to mark the whole station as alive as well.

What about the build storage module? Have you checked in-sector?

Just to add to this discussion when I select my carrier and fleet and put them on patrol in XEN sectors, they end up finding targets that are not shown on the map and appear invisible and start attacking it. I am not present in the sector as these are my NPC ships. I left my PC on, came back a day later and they were still attacking it. Whatever it was.

Build Storage module?

[Wou]

What about the build storage module? Have you checked in-sector?

It got destroyed by my ships. Only build queue remained, but nothing was being actually produced.

[Axeface]

What about the build storage module? Have you checked in-sector?

It got destroyed by my ships. Only build queue remained, but nothing was being actually produced.

You saw it get destroyed in-sector? The build storage that floats far away from stations and doesnt show up on the map?

[Wou]

You saw it get destroyed in-sector? The build storage that floats far away from stations and doesnt show up on the map?

Huh, not 100% sure. Most of the combat happened when I was out of sector and only teleported when the station was at 0% but not dying.
But at some point a load of resources appeared.

[Gadz]

Xenon Shipyards (and Wharves) are absolutely not invulnerable.

You were right. I was wrong.

Lo and behold, the witch is dead:



But how could this happen? What caused this guy to come to wrong conclusions and make an ass out of himself?
Oh, I'm glad you asked.

See, turns out that when you expand the map listing of an station you get the list of the modules, and when you press T when hovering mouse over one you can target it


Which led me to this charming place:

Spoiler

Show

... yep, definitely can see a defence module there.

And by clicking at random at what looks like an empty space:

Spoiler

Show

my god, it's full of... invisible stuff.
After clicking blindly for a while, and managing to find and blow up all of the invisible items on both side of the invisible platform the whole thing reappeared for a split second and went kaboom for good.

In conclusion:
Destroying a module does not necessary destroy it submodules/subsystem, and even one "live" turret, shield, whatever is enough to mark the whole station as alive as well.

What about the build storage module? Have you checked in-sector?

Just to add to this discussion when I select my carrier and fleet and put them on patrol in XEN sectors, they end up finding targets that are not shown on the map and appear invisible and start attacking it. I am not present in the sector as these are my NPC ships. I left my PC on, came back a day later and they were still attacking it. Whatever it was.

Build Storage module?

Possibly but shouldn't my ships automatically target any remaining modules that are alive? Maybe they are but it is repairing faster then I can destroy them. Hard to believe when I have a carrier, 3 destroyers, 2 frigates and 4 heavy fighters though. All with guns (so they don't run out of missiles and just sit there). Also a heap of defence drones.

[Axeface]

You saw it get destroyed in-sector? The build storage that floats far away from stations and doesnt show up on the map?

Huh, not 100% sure. Most of the combat happened when I was out of sector and only teleported when the station was at 0% but not dying.
But at some point a load of resources appeared.

I'll make a video to show you what im talking about.

Possibly but shouldn't my ships automatically target any remaining modules that are alive? Maybe they are but it is repairing faster then I can destroy them. Hard to believe when I have a carrier, 3 destroyers, 2 frigates and 4 heavy fighters though. All with guns (so they don't run out of missiles and just sit there). Also a heap of defence drones.

The ones i've seen in game are indestructible. And yeh the AI shoots at them (and misses because they're hitbox is misaligned).

[Wou]

I'll make a video to show you what im talking about.

do you mean something like this:

Spoiler

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I saw one near the wharf, wasn't marked as anything and looks kidna civilian with the shopping cart logo so O assumed that's some weird bug.
Anyways the wharf got blown up without me attacking it.

[Axeface]

Yes thats it, every station in construction has one of those even your PHQ, they are hard to spot. Its where ships drop off stuff to the stations wares for construction, you can even try to dock with them. Here is a video https://youtu.be/m7HUqY8rE8A Youcan see the AI missing all the time even with missiles, which is probably an issue in itself.

My point is, is that station really destroyed? Is it going to rebuild because it has an indestructible build storage? The station in the video im about to post has infinite spawning drones, and a build storage, and the teladi have been wailing on it for an hour. I dont think it's a bug. All this stuff makes me want to not play the game, how can this be called anything near finished.

[Wou]

My point is, is that station really destroyed? Is it going to rebuild because it has an indestructible build storage? The station in the video im about to post has infinite spawning drones, and a build storage, and the teladi have been wailing on it for an hour. I dont think it's a bug. All this stuff makes me want to not play the game, how can this be called anything near finished.

After some time the icon has disappeared from the map, so I would assume and hope it's gone for good.
But we will see, I will update this thread if the Shipyard suddenly reappears or something.

[Axeface]

My point is, is that station really destroyed? Is it going to rebuild because it has an indestructible build storage? The station in the video im about to post has infinite spawning drones, and a build storage, and the teladi have been wailing on it for an hour. I dont think it's a bug. All this stuff makes me want to not play the game, how can this be called anything near finished.

After some time the icon has disappeared from the map, so I would assume and hope it's gone for good.
But we will see, I will update this thread if the Shipyard suddenly reappears or something.

Really? The station wreck icon disappeared? Im gonna have to sit here with seta on some more then and see what happens to the build storage.